bump

Does the size or layout of the lot require you to angle part of the house?  If so, have you considered putting the angle as extra space in the garage so that the rest of the house is more of a rectangle without the angle in the middle? The kitchen layout ends up being a bit odd with the island and the kitchen wall angled.

I like it. The footprint has a little bit of a Usonian vibe. I think this layout will work best with a contemporary aesthetic.

Your access to the deck is awkward. I would flank the fireplace with windows if you have a nice view. In general, I think you're off to a great start. Would love to see the exterior elevations.

I think you have a very good architect. Nice house.

I see no compelling reason for the angle. It creates inefficient space and wastes money (unless you have money to waste). Stairs have a degree danger to them, and there is no sense in making them more dangerous by injecting an odd tread/landing into them.

Back to the drawing board, but you already knew that by: "round 1 of ?"

Our best view is south-east through a maze of trees, hence the funky turn the house takes to face it.

Which way is east?

The drawings are north-up, the road (and only neighbor) is to the south.

Mark was hoping the movie version would come out before he had to read the book. Lol.

How did you know that?

What about swapping the location of the foyer and the stairs? Have a straighter run of stairs, and the entry would be at that greatest point of interest, the bend?

Why hasn't your architect created elevations at the same time as he did the floor plans?

To me the problem with the angled space is:

the awkward kitchen layout

the huge awkward wasted space between dining room and kitchen. It's almost half the length of the living room!

the long walk from garage with groceries to the kitchen

the stairs as Mark pointed out.

the wasted hallway space upstairs necessitating double doors into the master

the angled master closet since clothes will not fit at the angles.

the master closet being almost as large as the master bedroom

the closet door opening to the bed so if someone wants to sleep, the light will hit them in the eyes.

the angled vanity in the bathroom where the wall angles

the double doors into the second upstairs bedroom

the second bedroom and the guest bedroom having windows only on 1 wall

Had you considered an L shaped house to get to see the best views?

I generally find it quite pleasing. A few thoughts...

- Your basement has very little unfinished storage space (assuming the bedroom gets finished). Will you have enough room for all of your "stuff" (Christmas decorations, luggage, ect)? If you needed more storage, you could...position a slightly smaller wet bar against the bathroom wall, then put the bedroom where the wet bar is currently. This would give you one large storage/mechanical room on the left side of the basement.

- On the main floor, I would move the deck access from the great room to the dining room. This would make the flow less awkward and let you put the couch against the wall vs. floating it.

- I'm not a fan of the angled island Maybe align a rectangular island with the sink wall?

- The master closet seems obnoxiously large. What about moving the laundry room the the right a few feet and reconfigure the secondary bath slightly.

I like the angle in this instance - and the architect seem to have at least tried to minimize the disruption that the angle causes - but the kitchen bears the worst burden of absorbing it - agree that area needs work. And the stairs - I do worry a little about the winder landing.

Your master bath windows may be a little over exposed to the front door.

While the house looks linear due to the overall garage length- it's fairly up and down for a lot of your spaces. As you age, this could become rather restrictive. I wonder if you might want to future proof a little with either a future elevator shaft, or a slightly largr main floor bath that could accommodate a second master.

If you need a lift in the garage area - think about the clear span that you need, reinforce the garage floor (2 post better than 4 for actual working on cars) and the height will be a challenge to "hide" and not have the garage compete with the house section.

Not a thing in the world wrong with an angle as long as there's a site related reason for it.

"We have iterated through the floor plan with him to the point that I think we’re pretty happy and are about to let him loose on sketching up elevations and putting the detail into exterior design " Normally, everything is developed simultaneously, plans, sections and elevations.

Steve Jobs said it well when he observed - “People think it's this veneer — that the designers are handed this box and told, 'Make it look good!' That's not what design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works.”

Not a thing in the world wrong with an angle as long as there's a site related reason for it.

Once again, ARG is one of the few voices of reason on this site.

I find it interesting that "Mark BIschak, Architect" starts out virtually every post by saying the same things:

1) "Does the design respond to the site's features or is it just plopped on the site?"

2) "Hire a local architect to design a home that meets your needs and fits your site."

Yet when someone does hire an architect, and the house is designed to respond to the site's features, he says there is "no compelling reason for the angle."

Okay, I read it.

An angled plan can potentially fit the site better and add interest to exterior, but it comes with a cost. In this case it will most likely reduce the functionality/efficiency of the spaces, make for more complex roof framing, make for more complex floor framing, make for more complex foundation work, make for wasted kitchen cabinet space, and possibly create a trip hazard on the stairs. As long as you are aware of the effects of an angled plan, things are good. Many time somewhere in the design/construction process, the owner is looking for ways to cut costs and the option of straightening out the plan may be too late.

Double doors into a bedroom rarely works well.

How long to you expect a guest to stay, the closet in the guest bedroom may be too large?

Consider having the foundation wall follow under the wall between the heated space and the garage.

Enlarge the wine cellar.

Move the deck stairs to not impede on the view from the Rec Room.

Flipping the stairs and the entry may be a good idea.

Rethink the second dog.

Can you work in a space for an elevator? Maybe storage for now, but would hold one in the future if needed.

Nah, more dogs are good, even more cats are better. Where are you putting the cat facilities? I would love a real room for them.

Booty - work on that reading comprehension.

The plans are done well overall. I realize you are early in the process, so will gauge my comments to that:

I see some setback lines and follow the reasoning behind the angle. However, I agree somewhat that the angle, which is such a prominent feature in the footprint, is hidden by the kitchen and does not contribute to it (I don't know how much it negatively impacts it though). The feature of having the angle that is exploited in the trophy stair does not continue on the other side or in any massing . . .

. . . speaking of responding to the site, the elevations and sections should be part of the floor planning (and I'm sure the architect has some things in mind, but they should have been put on paper). These elevations will help you envision massing that does not appear to respond to a sloping site. It's just a monolithic, 2 story mass (3 stories on the east) with some jogs and an angle, with a 3 car garage tacked on. If your architect can do 3-Ds, even of solid blocks, it may help you understand.

Something else that I would consider at this stage, is fenestration and the trailer. Not exact window placement or size, but in adjacencies and views. My opinion is that a wooded ravine, which sits on the north, can be beautiful in itself, just different, than the view southeast peeking through some trees to whatever is beyond (lake, field, skyline?). The only rooms that get this view is the 3 bedrooms and a Laundry room, and they will be looking at a trailer.

I would agree that these schematics are speaking a contemporary, simple, design language, but I suppose this could become a colonial if you so choose. But it appears whichever language this project speaks, the site will have a great impact on the construction cost, so it would be wise to bring a contractor in now rather than spend time on an unbuildable concept.

Booty - work on that reading comprehension.

Please help me out. Quotes from Mark Bischak, "Architect"...

I see no compelling reason for the angle…

An angled plan can potentially fit the site better and add interest to exterior,

Back to the drawing board…

As long as you are aware of the effects of an angled plan, things are good.

Do you, or don't you, see a compelling reason for the angle?

The OP needs to go back to the drawing board, or not?

It is all right there Booty, read it.

I've noticed Mark often resorts to childish retorts anytime his 'authority' is questioned.

It appears the only reason he actually backtracked this one time, using a professional/thoughtful tone, is because ARG (the most respected professional on this forum) correctly pointed out that there is "not a thing in the world wrong with an angle as long as there's a site related reason for it."

This is not the Booty Whine thread, get back to the topic.

I’m not an architect nor expert of any kind. I’m just a person who has lived in a house her whole life.

I can’t put my first impression into well educated and thoughtful architect-speak, so I’ll just say: the angle feels contrived. An angle for angles’ sake. It’s causing odd-shaped wasted space inside the house. Pretty expensive wasted space, I’m guessing.

This is one of the better and more thought out layouts I've seen on this forum. I totally agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with an angle. If nothing else, it provides visual interest both indoors and out. So long as you understand there may be an increase in cost and if the site supports it, I would not eliminate it.

Having said that, the kitchen island reflecting that angle is problematic. I think a rectangular island will be more functional, not to mention less costly.

The biggest problem with the layout is the stair and entry. I agree with HB that swapping them would be a good idea. It will simplify the stair and make the entry more prominent.

And I agree with others that the plan, sections and elevations are usually developed together, but it's also true that residential design begins with floor plans, and that seems to be the stage you're at. All in all a good start to the process.

I grew up in a house with angles that would blow your mind, and lived to tell about it.

As to the stairs, I that house also had a set of stairs that had one turn at a square landing and one winder turn. The stairs above it was winder turns. The benefit of the square turn was, whew, a place to set something down. but it also meant a change of pacing as you ascend and descend. I don’t recommend mixing the two. However, you do have all straight treads except for the one, and it’s pretty broad, so you might be okay. But, in all honesty, descending that last bit at an angle seems odd, incomplete somehow, if that makes sense.

It's only been a day so I hope Lizz is still with us. It's always seems to work best on the forum and for the OP when the OP is making a parallel commentary to what's said here. So without that input....... to be honest, "(We) are about to let him loose on sketching up elevations and putting the detail into exterior design" is a little bit of a red flag. Hopefully the architect has something envisioned in his head but it's best to get it all on paper from the outset as said above.

The biggest issue with angles is always the roof. And of course, a close secondary issue is the spaces within the angled portion. One way to help with these problems to minimize the angled area in relation to everything else. As an example, here's a version of a house we recently designed.

As you can see, the angled portion is limited in both plan and elevation to a small portion of the house while having the whole house "angled".

ETA: And as an aside, this is an example of everything (plan, elevations, etc.), being developed simultaneously.

Does the fireplace in the master bathroom help keep the bathtub water hot?

It appears the roof of the narrow connector can terminate on top of the gable roof over the master bedroom and mud room without complex framing, minimizing construction costs.

Nice layout, like poetry.

The upstairs bathroom should be an ensuite to the bedroom/office.

ARG, that is a nice house. All the main portions are not weirdly angled so it doesn't impact the main rooms and how they work.

Wow you've all had a busy day yesterday! I thought the post was lost to houzz moderation filters -- thanks jck910 for the bump!

I definitely acknowledge there is some oddity and inefficiency stemming from the angle. Believe me, spending extra money on all that hallway is not ideal (but at least it should be a sunny hallway?). There are some contours shown that hint at the steep slope to the north. Our geotech gave us a rough 20ft estimate to pull back from the slope where it would not require piles or more expensive construction. The road approaches from the south east, so the view as you drive up is not dominated by the garage (but may be overtaken by the deck as it is drawn now).

Our architect has been working on elevation concepts in the background, but it has not gone into a full drawing yet. The 3-story face will need to be softened somehow. The intended style will not be a monolithic modernish block, so I expect that will have some push and pull on the layout. Our goal has been to work out how we plan to live there (floorplan and general room sizing) and then finalize elevations.

Give me a few to read through everything else here and come back with some thought out responses. Thank you!

Especially look at architectrunnerguy's angled house versus yours and how the main living spaces are not awkward like in yours.

ARG and cpartist, I agree that separating the two angled portions works well in that design. We are contending with a continuous slope running west-east so the further we push back the garage (in order to have that segmentation), the more we would cut into the hill. I would need to spend some time on that to see how to get all the living space squared off while not sprawling too far west (as it is there is a 5ft retaining wall at the edge of the garage, further west would slowly form a cliff if we're not careful).

I'll add a picture just calling out the setbacks. I think to make a change inspired by that house work, the deck will probably shrink to stay at the front setback. The home probably could not stay at the 90-45 angle since more of the rooms would be in the 45-degree section. Perhaps the mud room, entry and guest bath could take the brunt of that...

Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing that example.

Apologies for going out of order. I'll try to step back to specific comments.

@H B I didn't want the entry spilling directly into the living space. I also don't want it to be a dark corner, but I'd like the privacy. And the architect mentioned something about the progression of sight lines as you enter the home, so I'm inclined to keep that order of things.

@cpartist :

The kitchen and space from kitchen to dining -- yes and yes. The kitchen layout may get its own thread. I have scribbled up a separate page with all that goes in each cabinet, and I think the zone works but an angled island does make things awkward, I agree.

Upstairs suite -- I suppose the double doors make it grand? I've seen it often in new construction homes that we've toured and don't immediately see an issue with that (but do no live with double doors at the moment). The closet should work, the plan being to only have a small dresser in the bedroom itself and the closet do all the work so I've estimated based on our current closet area and what we use the dressers for now and gotten a rough plan from one of those online closet build/planners. There is another suggestion from @booty bums to nudge the laundry to the right to reduce the closet, so I get the feeling I am overestimating that size. I'll need to sharpen the pencil there.

The second bedroom upstairs is the office, so the double doors would be french doors and likely open more than not.

Lots of your concerns would be resolved with pushing the angle farther west and away from the main living space so stay tuned I suppose :)

@booty bums the unfinished extra bedroom is most likely a pottery studio. To your point on storage, I think we can move the foundation wall like I believe @Mark Bischak, Architect is suggesting to capture the space under the mudroom as more unfinished space. I have a print out where I wrote down where all the storage goes so as is I think we have room (assuming I can get some space above the right bays in the garage for camping/holiday gear), but that seems like a nobrainer.

Angled island noted. Ah yes, the door to the deck from the dining probably makes more sense.

@just_janni One more vote for a kitchen thread / rethink of the placement of that angle. I'll come back to that after we take in feedback from this topic.

Yeah I spent a long time hemming and hawing over which of the laundry/closet/bath got that corner spot. Bath ended up winning but we'll need to be conscious of the southwest windows for sure... Having the laundry there was a fun thought (which could put the bath in the north where it's more private), but could not work out the hallways nor do I like walking through a bath to get to a closet or vice versa.

We are relatively young, though that doesn't mean much if something were to happen. Maybe a glass elevator in the center of the angled stairs :D Jokes aside, it's a good question.

Lift will be two-post and DH has been planning that since he built the one we have now. The garage is ~1000 sqft (not sure if the text is legible, seems compressed).

@Mark Bischak, Architect +1 to the wine cellar, I'll see what I can do! We have fashioned our crawlspace into a cellar, so it'll be nice to have standing room in this plan. I'll start counting the bottles...

On the angles and stairs, we probably do need to have a hard look at the stairs even if the angle stays. I did not think of any danger there but I can see how three different runs and one odd angle could be tricky. How about a semicircle? Circles have no angles :) @bpath, you had the same comments/concern about the odd shape. If we straighten out the stairs to a U-shape, does the angle it creates in the dining room become a new issue?

We'll probably commandeer the guest closet for our own storage (though does that sound like bad planning then? The large closet would be better for resale, but we have no plans of that right now).

>Rethink the second dog.

More cats then

@Sherry I was thinking the cat facilities would be in the space to the right of the washer/dryer, under the counter there. Looking at the plan, not too many other free/hidden corners I think...

@3onthetree Yeah the elevations will help push some of the walls (possibly shrink the master suite) so it's less monolithic. I'm trying not to stay too attached to the current plan since it will change to feature the best elevation it can as well as the realities of rooflines and framing. I'm new to all this but sounds like I should have expected those drawings sooner?

The trailer is a good point that I had not though of. The idea of looking out the office at the trailer... hm. Thanks

@RappArchitecture I'll keep an eye out for your feedback when I start that kitchen thread. The angled island is costly especially compared to a rectangle from a single slab, but suppose there is a bookmatch along the angle? (yes okay, expensive). Could you be convinced that the angled island makes it functional by separating the cook/clean zones? That's how I convinced myself at least.

No more cats is always applicable.

I would flip the entry and the staircase which would solve the problem of the stairs. Trust me having open to below is overrated so that wouldn't be an issue.

And I would probably put the switch the dining room with the kitchen especially since the deck is where the dining room is.

Double doors create issues as to where to put light switches and it also is not as soundproof as a single door.

Another thing I don't particularly love is you come upstairs and if you turn to the left, your view is of a wall

In the bath upstairs, I'd do a more traditional layout so the toilet isn't behind the door when you open the door. Meaning vanity, toilet, shower. Put the linen closet where the toilet is now.

I do think you still need to rethink how the public rooms relate to the angles. What ARG did in his works so well because it doesn't compromise any of the public rooms or bedrooms.

To elaborate on my original comment, the main entry where it's located seems pretty unfriendly. You walk in the front door with a mudroom to your left and a blank wall straight ahead. It's also very close to the driveway, which I think is also a problem. Swapping it with the stair would not only simplify the stair (which could still have a dramatic window facing front), but would move it closer to the main living spaces. There are ways to design it so it doesn't "spill directly" into the space, and it would be far more gracious than what's shown. It would also allow for a longer front porch, and that extra jog in the front could probably be eliminated.

Frankly, I think the foyer location makes perfect sense. The garage entry feeds into it, making a total ”arrival/departure” zone. And the stairs are part of daily living, so make sense there. (Stairs that land in a less-used foyer serve only to remind yiu when the floor need dusting. IMO)

With all due respect, the mudroom is behind the wall to the left where the shared coat closet is, and a blank wall straight ahead is perfect for artwork. An entry eight feet from the driveway is not a bad thing, it makes for a short walk. Although I am all for eliminating the crooked stairs.

The stair location effects all three levels.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not super quick to picture these suggestions (especially with the mental inertia that this design has). So I need to spend some time to try to sketch and see what that means on each level (right now swapping the entry/stairs sounds to me like opening the door into the guest suite or into the kitchen/living space). We were trying to keep mudroom and entry close (for flooring/tiles and easy path to coat closet -- an entry zone like bpath mentions), and rest assured the walls won't be blank.

The upstairs purposefully walks into a wall as well rather than walking right into the bath, but maybe to make the left end of that hallway more meaningful, we can pull the office south so the doors are the end of the hallway? (rather than doors off of the hallway, and it ending in a not-to-be-blank wall)

I see it's worth addressing each area where the angle disrupts rather than improves, though, and the three different segments of the stairs is one of those areas (the open basement might be the only space that "improves" with the angle, or perhaps it isn't as awkward as the others to draw attention to itself). If the area can't be fixed (kitchen seems like it needs some thought), then that really drives us to a different footprint.

The main entrance needs a closet.

I agree with the other posters who think the main entrance coming into the hallway wall is underwhelming.

This home would be challenging to get old in. Lots of stairs to access bedroom and laundry. Consider making that first floor bedroom accessible if you plan to be here in your later years. And think of where you could move the laundry, if needed.

I might point out the rather awkward path from your car to the house. From any car door, you are making a full U-turn to go up the steps. But, it does ensure that the space between man-door and the steps stays clear.

Where will the trash and recycling bins go? How often will you take them outside? to the curb?

So I need to spend some time to try to sketch and see what that means on each level (right now swapping the entry/stairs sounds to me like opening the door into the guest suite or into the kitchen/living space). We were trying to keep mudroom and entry close (for flooring/tiles and easy path to coat closet -- an entry zone like bpath mentions), and rest assured the walls won't be blank.

Yes it would mean also flipping the guest bath/bedroom. Here's a very rough of what I was thinking.

I agree about the entry looking at a wall. I saw that initially but wanted to focus on the angle. I try to set it up where the entry view is clear through the house. That not only makes the house seem bigger, it helps to "bring the outside in". In this case let your "artwork" be your views upon entry.

"And I agree with others that the plan, sections and elevations are usually developed together, but it's also true that residential design begins with floor plans" What Rapp says is true but a floor plan CONCEPT normally has a very little head start on a 3D CONCEPT. Maybe as little as a few lines. As examples here's some freehand concept sketches where the plan CONCEPT is literally just seconds ahead of the thinking of how the forms will look.

I was just questioning the level of detail put into plan with zero apparent 3D thinking on the table. And of course when all this gets cleaned up it's all there for the owner.

Usually it's the OP who leaves the building. In this case it's everyone else. No one has any more comments?

I obviously do not know all the program information, but I am still not convinced, with the information and response provided, that the angle in the floor plan is necessary. I would rather save my input on a straight more efficient plan than be an accomplice to the current design.