Forgot to mention Crazy Love. Posted on a separate thread. Picture from today 8/8 in a pot own root 2nd year. Healthy no spray has not stopped blooming even in this heat

Dianela,

That's a pretty rose.

Do you see a pattern of apricot colored roses being great repeat bloomers as well as many being strong black spot fighters?

Carding Mill, At Last, Sweet Fragrance, Apricot Candy, Cream Veranda, Autumn Sunset, Medallion, Crazy Love, Fun In The Sun, Lady of Shallott, Pat Austin, Lady Emma Hamilton, Tequila Supreme, all are famously tops in many important departments.

This is particularly interesting to me since the color apricot is a modern rose breakthrough color, not seen in many OGRs, or foundation hybrid teas, either.

If some yellow rose parentage is necessary to produce apricot colored roses, the historic disease and short bloom life yellow roses characteristically exhibit seems not to be inherited in quite a few of their apricot children.

Will we soon be saying, "not another new apricot rose," as frequently as some rose lovers can be heard bemoaning, "not another new pink rose!"?

Moses

@BenT it’s so funny how different gardens produce different results. In my foggy coastal climate Life of the Party does fine, as in it gets some blackspot but nothing to fret over. Meanwhile Fun in the Sun completely defoliated. It also has blooms that ball as soon as June gloom set in but that’s a different story.

For me the most trouble free rose is definitely Julia Child. Even next to Barbra Streisand, who gets blackspot but doesn’t defoliate, Julia remains blackspot and mildew free.

Ben - your Poseidon and QoE are such bloomers!! Beautiful!! I'm really loving my QoE too...foliage is perfect.

Kristine - my goodness!! Your Memorial Day is way bigger than mine!! Love all of those blooms. I agree...MD is a winner for me too. Your Fiji looks like a great rose.

Straw - I love my Perfume Breeze...in fact, I think it's my best new rose. :) :) The fragrance is always there and the bush is perfection...continuous, heavy bloomer. Are your first 2 pictures Perfume Breeze? They look like it. :) Your bushes are covered in blooms...love!! :) :)

Dianela - man, those are beautiful!!

I don’t know Moses. It does seem like an interesting idea. I do not grow many of these since this color range was something I didn’t like before, but Carding Mill is top blackspot queen in my garden. Lady of Shalott is half decent, but Lady Emma won’t even grow and defoliates. Carding Mill is completely black by the end of May here. To me reading this thread is fascinating, it is incredible how different disease pressure is for even those with similar humidity.

I will add Evelyn grafted on multiflora (Regan Nursery) as continuous bloomer in my clay soil (6 PH) with zero black spot and never sprayed. It is the second year in ground and is already 6 feet tall with multiple basal canes that came out this year.

My other Evelyn on Dr huey gets black spot but but still gives gorgeous flower show.

My 11th-year-own-root Carding Mill needs fast drainage, alkaline pH, plus ungodly amount of potassium and calcium for its zillion petals & 40+ blooms per 3 flushes. It used to blackspot in its young years, until I found the trick of digging out the top 1 foot of soil around its root-ball, put that in a wheelbarrow, then mix in pelletized lime (pH over 10), plus Espoma Tomato Tone (higher in potassium than Rose Tone), then put the soil back.

There's a process called "Acid Phosphatase" which cluster-roots produce acid to use phosphorus in soil for blooming. Roses which are constant bloomer like Carding Mill is very good in producing acid to use calcium & potassium & phosphorus in hard clay for blooming.

After blooming is when the soil around its roots is most acidic and depleted. I fix its soil yearly before late fall, when tons of acidic rain will corrode its roots further. It's easier than getting horse manure 3 times per year to buffer the heavy rain here.

What's taken out in blooming, should be put back, and it's best done by mixing in ORGANIC fertilizer in the soil around the root zone. I burnt plenty of roses by putting a wad of high phosphorus chicken manure right smack on the crown. High salt chemical fertilizers also get released all at once during heavy rain to burn the crown.

That is a great idea @strawchicago z5. How much lime do you add in the mix per plant ?

I was thinking of adding some super phosphate too in the mix.

If the soil around the root-zone is rock-hard, then I use gypsum (calcium sulfate) with 21% acidic sulfur to break up that hardened clump. Gypsum is very acidic, best mixed well into the soil rather than putting that directly on rose's crown to burn it.

If the soil around the root-zone is fluffy from acidic rain, then I use Espoma Garden Lime or dolomitic lime (20% calcium and 10% magnesium) at pH 10 to alkalize and firm that up.

Yearly I grow 20+ own-root roses in pots, and the first sign of magnesium deficiency in fluffy soil is LEAVES DROP OFF. See link below with a pic. of magnesium deficiency: Leaves drop off with magnesium deficiency

I don't add phosphorus to clay since phosphorus accumulates through the years in my sticky and heavy clay. According to NOBLE plant foundation, nitrogen mobility is a 10 (it moves with water), potassium mobility is a 3 (it gets leaches out during rain), and phosphorus mobility is a 1 (it stays put & doesn't get leached out).

Magnesium and sulfur also get leached out during heavy rain, that's the logic for using gypsum at 21% sulfur.

Calcium is leached out and used heavily by roses to make firm canes & solid roots and zillion petal blooms.

The first sign of calcium deficiency is less petals in blooms. Calcium is what gives "weight" and solidity to a rose. So the amount of calcium added should be 1/2 the weight of the spent blooms & canes trimmed off.

All the wisdom shared here is making my head spin, but keep it coming! 😁

Moses

You crack me up, Ben!!!! I originally breezed past the BS-free part of the threads title!!!, but did specify that many of my choices do BS, but re-leaf and bloom well, nonethe less. Medallion falls into the category of almost always in bloom. I compare her to the likes of Dark Desire and Savannah that are weak for me in bloom and health, but probably shouldnt have included her in the BS free category. In truth, very few big bloomers fit that bill... even Belindas Dream gets some BS and shes always putting out flowers.

I have noted that many types have vastly improved over time, such as Ballerina, while others struggle with disease despite perfect placement.... looking at you Eglantyne!!!

Champions in my Seattle garden this year: Icecap, Lynnie, Blanc Double de Coubert, Watercolors Home Run, Le Petit Prince, Dee-Lish, Marie Pavie, Perle d'Or, Bolero, Garden Delight, Lion's Fairy Tale, Lady of Shalott, Calypso, Cream Veranda, Jadis, Bliss, Olivia Rose Austin, Pretty Lady(SCRivo), Poseidon, Darlow's Enigma, Arctic Blue, Lyda, Baby Austin, Arctic Sunrise.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) I have two LIfe of the Party rose bushes (aka Huntington's 100th). One in front yard -- morning sun, afternoon shade. Super healthy bloom machine - no blackspot or rust. I have another one in the backyard -- mid-morning to afternoon sun (definitely more than 6 hours, just differently timed) -- and that one is not nearly as vigorous, doesn't bloom as often, and keeps getting rust. My soil would be roughly the same, so I'm starting to think that morning sun is key for roses. My front yard roses are just better than my backyard roses, which get more sun, but get it ALL DAY LONG from mid-morning on. P.S. Your comments are hilarious.

Deborah,

Great to have you back! I agree morning sun is the best. I’ve seen LotP terribly blackspotted in some gardens, hence I was very surprised when it appeared on this thread. When I lived in Texas I sprayed regularily and she did very well for me. Now that I’m in a very sunny dry part of California, I’ve not seen one leaf of blackspot all season on 120+ varieties. And I grow all the blackspot queens, just to prove how well they do here…Oregold, Typhoo Tea, Granada, Osiria, and yes LotP and Medallion, all no spray. I even tempt fate more by drenching their leaves with water at night, still no blackspot! What a difference a climate makes.

Oregold: She’s been callled the ’worst rose ever introduced’ and is known as a blackspot harbinger, but here she’s happy and loaded with huge blooms:

I am in the same climate (I’m just north of Pittsburgh) and struggle with the same issue. Why is BS such an issue here? Even with the dry, sunny summer we’ve had, BS is a constant battle.

For me, the ONLY roses that never have even a little BS are Pomponella, Quietness, Earth Angel, and Poseidon. Bliss is new to me this year but so far hasn’t black spotted.

Ben, I love Oregold too. When I called Roses Unlimited to order an Oregold to replace the one I lost to my Oak Root Fungus problem (long story, and the reason I grow most of my roses in pots), Pat actively tried to dissuade me from ordering it. I persisted. LOL.

Laura, my Pomponella and Earth Angel are both clean here, but they don't repeat well so they're not in my list.

Susan, I’d never heard of Oak Root Fungus as something that affected roses, I hope to never have to deal with it! Oregold is a stunner when happy 5-6” deep golden yellow blooms a size to rival Peace. I’m surprised Pat carried it since she was so against it!

Oh, Ben....you are amazing with roses!! Your Oregold is glorious!!! You are seriously good at growing roses!!

Ok Moses , I am throwing out Figi again for your condideration.

And it is always loaded with blooms.

Kristine LeGault 8a pnw Wow !! Your bush above is picture-perfect. I need deep & bright colors since my dense clay fades all the colors.

Fiji is worderful here also. Perfect health and compact.

Yes, Kristine, I have caught the, 'Fiji Bug.' It's the perfect replacement candidate for the next shovel pruned spotter that's up front in the border because here, it will never reach your Fiji's proportions due to our winters of not only -5°F lows, but the spring long freeze and thaw repetition which knocks the snot out of roses.

You know, three years ago, right when the virus started, my buddy Frank, an avid gardener, wanted a small rose garden. so I selected the following, as well as I can remember, so he would have minimal black spot issues:

Quick Silver

Wedding Bells

Savannah

South Africa

Poseidon

Violet's Pride

FIJI

Pink Enchantment

Princess Charlene of Monaco

and I think Dee-Lish

I saw the bed only once because of Frank's extreme response to personal contact during the virus. It was in the spring of their year two in the ground (they came as gallon size from Chamblee's).

I couldn't believe my eyes! They were thriving beyond my greatest expectations. Quick Silver in particular was becoming a kudzu-esque brute of a climber. Fiji was covered in the most warm cherry/red blooms. The only dud was Violet's Pride which was a black spot mess!

I instructed Frank to only growth tip spray, and only until the growth tips' buds had reached the size of a garden pea. No spraying of those growths was necessary thereafter.

He sprays religiously every two weeks with the Bayer Complete Insect Control (Imidacloprid) right up to today. He has never, ever used a fungicide at all. He has no BS issues except for Violet's Pride, which I included on the original plant list because it is so beautiful, and I had (now know to be false), hopes that it would not be a spotter.

Moses

Fiji:

Moses is in western PA.

Where in PA was Jim (re: ”abundant, season long bloomers”)?

That picture makes Fiji look huge. It is in a raised planter so looks tall.

Mine is probably 6 years old and about 5ft x3

I don't think my answer is going to be helpful because it's not sold in the United States, but my most amazing bloomer Cherry Brandy, which has zero black spot despite a lot of prevalence in my garden and is still blooming profusely despite July heat in high 90s/low 100s.

Carla in Sac

Rifis,

Jim, I believe lives either (both cities/districts, are in the same climatic region in south/central PA), in Chambersburg (famous for Chambersburg peaches, in season right now), or Mechanicsburg (named for the settlement of mechanics who made and repaired Conestoga wagons there in the early 19th. Century). Horse drawn Conestoga wagons, often covered, were the primary vehicle used by American pioneers in their Westward move across the land. This expansion helped to create this great, God blessed nation we inhabit.

Jim, zone 6a, as I believe he reports as his growing zone does not say it all. In his part of the state, the Appalachian Mountains create many cozy valleys like the ripples on a washboard. These valleys cradle the green growing matter within them with a very dependable, even climate of slowly changing seasonal movements, ideal for early blooming, frost sensitive fruit trees like peaches. Thus the famous Chambersburg peach developed in these valleys. That's why Jim can boast of: "abundant, season long bloomers."

New Jersey also has growing locales that are ideal for peaches, and when their fruit is in season, Pennsylvanians, me chief among them, wait for their appearance in the markets.

Moses

Moses:

Superb rendering of the Appalachians!

I asked because I remember Jim was down on Fiji a while back.

I found it now:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5449267/kordes-fiji-rose-progress#n=34

Kristine - yes, your wonderful Fiji! I love yours so much!

Ben - lots of blooms...what a treasure!

Carla - what beautiful colors! I love the reverse color with the main one. Beautiful!

Thanks for the link, rifis. It seems a mystery to me why both of Jim's Fijis did not thrive for him, as it does so well for so many others.

If Fiji is a heat lover in the extreme, which isn't likely, since my buddy Frank's, who gardens in a climate very similar to mine except for my micro climate heat trap, at last visit was going full throttle, that could be a factor contributing to Jim's Fiji issues. His climate is not a hot one at all. Hope my Fiji(s), yet to be, thrive.

I think Jim's Fiji issues were not his doing or his climates fault, but began before he received them. They were possibly just nursery stock culls, that were runts of the batch of their fellow propagation lot. The issues with them started from the individual cuttings they grew from. Jim was just unfortunate in receiving plants that should have been dumpstered. Just a thought.

Moses

Quick Silver blooms non stop and stays healthy here in the humid hellhole of FL, no spray. Not much in the fragrance dept.

Mrs B R Cant is flawless and smells yummy.

Not sure of her cold tolerance.

Spririt of Freedom, Pat Austin, and Bishops Castle are also blooming machines that stay healthy.

The most black spot resistant rose I have is a climber, Leaping Salmon that I got from Heirloom roses a few years back. It was not much more than a slip when I received so didn't hold out high hope. It is also in a less than ideal part shade location. It is marvelously vigorous. Flowers are large, shaped like a hybrid tea, in a deep coral. That being said, I thought I had nothing to lose by trying sprinkling cornmeal around the base of my roses (I don't spray) in an effort to thwart blackspot during a pretty wet spring. I don't believe it's coincidence, but this is the best year yet and at this time of the summer I'm usually picking black-spotted leaves off as quickly as I can. Zone 7 south Jersey, home of hazy, hot, and humid.

Linda, I tried cornmeal in a potted rose that was just a blackspot mess

Coincidence? I dont know but I havent had a bit of BS on that plant.

That's interesting, Kristine. Worth a try for those having BS problems. :)

Kristine, when i first came across the recommendation I looked up more about it, and it seems to be discounted by different studies. i thought for the price of a bag of cornmeal, what have i got to lose? i can’t even claim to be particularly regimented as to when i do it - in fact it’s been a bit so I’ll work on it this week. Usually from the end of July on only new growth is pristine, so quite a difference!

I tested WHOLE-GRAIN cornmeal back in 2014 and posted pics. in Organic Rose forum, looking back it's the double-whammy effect of potassium in cornmeal plus sulfate of potash. My username name back in 2014 was Strawberryhill.

Potassium is well-known for disease prevention since it regulates water-osmosis:

Anti-fungal effect of whole grain corn meal (houzz.com)

8 years ago

Below is Frederic Mistral hybrid tea, 2nd year own-root, it's always clean in my alkaline clay, pH 7.7. Lower base is dusted with whole-grain corn meal (pH 3.5). I also watered Frederic Mistral with soluble gypsum and sulfate of potash for rust-prevention.

It's best to mix whole-grain corn meal with coarse sand so it doesn't glue-up into a sheet, blocking water from above. Keeping surface either dry and alkaline, or extremely acidic prevents fungal germination. Corn meal is effective against both mildew an black spots, but NOT for rust, due to its extreme-acidity at pH 3.5. Wood ash, at pH over 10, is more effective for rust. Picture taken August 30, hot temp with 70% humidity.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 14:46

Note: corn meal is effective only if it's WHOLE-GRAIN corn-meal with more potassium and B-vitamins for plants' health. I tested refined corn-meal back in 2011 and it was YUCK, it's just cheap & refined starch that attracted flies, plus grew disgusting mold.

Refined cornmeal worsened blackspot on Austin Eglantine since refined starch releases acid when broken down too fast. Plus refined cornmeal has zero B vitamins for plants' health, and zero magnesium for glossy leaves.

NPK of whole-grain corn meal is 1.65/ 0.65 / 0.4 ... that's much better than horse manure with bedding, at NPK of 0.7 / 0.3 / 0.6, plus salt.

Whole-grain corn has Magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, and the anti-fungal trace elements of zinc and copper, plus many B vitamins such as B5, B9, B3, B6 and a good amount of potassium (necessary for disease-prevention).

Whole-grain corn meal is expensive, but crack-corn is cheap at $3 for a 5 lb. bag at local feed-store. pH of cracked corn is VERY ACIDIC at 3.5, thus neutralize my alkaline tap water at 9. The plus side is it breaks down SLOWER than refined corn meal, thus releases its acid slower.

My WHOLE-GRAIN crack-corn experiment resulted in glossy & healthy leaves of Bolero back in 2012, see below:

I like it so much I put the entire 5 lb. bag of corn meal in the planting hole of Tchaikovsky. I let it de-compose to neutral pH for a few months, before planting Tchaikovsky. That was 9 years ago, and this rose is always 100% healthy with super-glossy foliage. Tchaikovsky, a 9th-year-own-root is a constant bloom in only 4 hrs. of sun. Pic. taken end of July:

Thanks Straw, always good to have your scientific feedback. That .makes a lot of sense doesnt it as to why it would work.

I will be buying the whole grain for future endeavors.

Mother of Pearl. 90% clean under heavy BS pressure, no spray. And it wouldn't matter if it did have spots because it always has blooms so you would never notice it. The most generous rose in my garden. Even during the worst of the summer heat it dosen't take a break.

I just ordered another Quicksilver for the othrr side of a trellis and an Easy spirit for the backside.

Any thoughts on Easy Spirit?

I had easy spirit for one summer, but it died of cold. I loved it. I got a one quart from high country this spring and am trying again.

Clark , you are in a much colder zone than I am so I guess it is all about winter protection. I am pretty spoiled in zone 8.

You must have liked Easy Spririt if you are willing to give it another go. How do you winter protect ?

Oh, I loved it. To protect, I mound woodchips on the crown, cover with the thick styrofoam cones, plug up the vent holes on the cone and mound snow if available.

The owner of High County very highly recomends Easy Spirit. With the way you grow roses there there’s no way it won’t be super. Can’t wait to see pics :)

I don’t recall any fragrance, though

Subk3 - your MoP rose is doing really well...look at all of those roses/buds!! Beautiful!

Here's a bush shot of Kashmir rose at nearby Cantigny park years ago. Chicago Botanical garden also has Kashmir.

Kashmir rose is super-healthy, with glossy foliage, large bloom & many petals:

close up of Kashmir, 100% healthy:

Next-door neighbor grows Calypso (best looking bush and MOST CONTINUOUS among her roses). Calypso is way-better looking than Drift-roses (can get big with ugly canes). Nearby Cantigny Park had Calypso, it's cutie floribunda and so healthy despite humidity and rain.

"My Girl" rose was lovely, blooms are prettier than knock-out, pretty foliage and clean ... so glad that they got rid of red-knock-out. My Girl rose is in the "Easy Elegance" series, bred by Ping Lim, very hardy up to zone 4a. Ping Lim bred his roses in Minnesota, which can withstand a high amount of acidic rain. What makes My Girl special is it's long-lasting on the bush, and in the vase. When other roses: pink Knock-out & Home-run petals are shattered by heavy rain, "My rose" shines because it retains its petals despite the heavy rain.

For more pics. of the roses at Cantigny park, zone 5a, see below link:

Cantigny gardens: roses, McCormick mansion, war museum & perennials (houzz.com)

Straw,

Thanks for bringing Calypso to my attention. I plan to acquire it to replace my Italian Ice, just planted in May. Its blooms last two days (even a dandelion bloom has more guts), and it is miserably defoliated by black spot as I write.

Moses

You may be right about my past Fiji's Moses ..lol... They certainly were duds from the get go...

Straw - My goodness!! Calypso sure looks like a winner!! I really love the centers too. :)