>> "No form of vinegar changes body pH or has any effect on toxins. The body's natural processes, mediated largely through the liver and kidneys, eliminate waste products and toxic substances." It's as if you are still rejecting the efficacy of Cinchona bark for treating malaria because the Amazonian Indians haven't discovered the formula for the quinine it contains. Instead, they say that the bark of the Cinchona tree contains the spirit of the God Xohopichulato, which destroys the evil spirit that causes malaria. If you want to rest in your beliefs that there is no Xohopichulato and therefore Cinchona cannot help with malaria, fine. Just don't pretend it is science. It is arrogant ethnocentrism, not scientific empiricism. Your arguments are based on an arbitrary and artificial definition of the word 'toxin'. You are ignoring the fact that ordinary substances can build up to toxic levels under many conditions - for example, glucose can build up to toxic levels when there is insulin resistance. In such a case, anything that reduces insulin resistance or lowers glucose levels would in fact be a 'detoxification' process. Likewise, immune hormones like the interferons and interleukins are necessary under certain conditions, but at higher doses (ie when there is infection or chronic inflammation) they often cause side effects that range from unpleasant to lethal. In SARS, H5N1 bird flu, and other killer influenzas, the body's immune system destroys the body. Immune hormones that might sometimes be beneficial are produced at toxic levels. This is quite different from your idea of metabolic toxins that are normally handled by the kidneys and liver. The short chain fatty acids present in vinegar (acetate, proprionate, butyrate) have been repeatedly shown to lower inflammatory cytokines (which have been implicated as a contributor to migraines). These simple compounds also affect levels of leptin, adiponectin and other compounds that regulate glucose, and there is research implicating this in the pathogenesis of migraines. You have stooped to pseudoscience by refusing to look at the evidence that vinegar can dramatically change certain chemicals in the body. You seem to take comfort in linguistic tautologies about 'toxins' that have little bearing on the underlying facts of the matter. Here is a link that might be useful: Glucose, Adiponectin, Immune Hormones and Migraine.

Jim, I just cant see you diging up really old posts, going on and on about it, with out some type of goal. Exactley what are you trying to prove??? Go to my site, All the ipe projects have 116 on them. As you can see they are not Red or Redwood or anything close to that. Saying it is makes me Mad clear and simple. Now if you put 116 on say preasure treated,garapa or any light color wood then Yes its going to come out a different color than 116 on ipe. This is basic 101 wood finish. Any of the resin base twp products can be mixed together to come up with a different color. I have used combos like that when puting finish on Garapa and other woods. I put cedar tone natural on ipe one time because the Wallet asked for it the result was bad but I did what they wanted however for ipe its most always the 116. Ipe itself is not one color it ranges from almost black to a light tan 116 levals out the differances but the result is not Red. Any color chip you get from Any finish store is going to be different on another kind of wood other than the wood used on the chip you cant expect them to have samples of finish on every kind of product. Just get off it Man. Its up to the Customer to know if one finish is the right one for them. There is no way twp is showing product online / samples / or color chips that dont match up with what they sell. You might not agree with what they call it if so just pick another name for your self and call it that but it Defentley is what they say it is and what they say they sell is what they sell. The JonMon has been a little tense latley after a long term project was real hard on me. This is a mixed site if I could I would edit my last response but O Well. J.

@Nancy, do not let one failure discourage you from growing the plants you like. you can always supplement with artificial light if you dont have a window with bright indirect light. A lot of people in his forum are very discouraging from the way they comment. they just like to troll like that so just ignore them.

This website presents some unique opportunities. For one, we at least have opportunity to learn from the mistakes of others, so as not to be punished by nature for repeating their errors; but, that thought needs to be tempered by the fact that even though humans are unique in that they CAN learn from the mishaps that befall their neighbors, they are at the same time very often disinclined to do so. I want to make my own mistakes, I want to do it MY way, and I want to do it as soon as possible!! When you stop to think about it, experience is little more than the name we give to our mistakes ..... and I learned that long ago through experience. Endeavors that involve horticultural hobby pursuits are such that a huge % of growers are at a disadvantage from lack of ability to identify what caused a particular plant to respond in a particular way. Plentiful are the horticultural myths that arose from "science" made up to fit the observation. It actually takes a reasonable working knowledge of horticulture to accurately evaluate much of what happens as a result of our day to day actions, and illustrative examples of that contention abound in most threads of any length. Wisdom, as opposed to knowledge, comes when we're able to anticipate the results that come from various actions. We all interact with our plants on different planes. The more we learn, the greater the potential to elevate the plane on which we interact. For example - we all have that 'nurturing bone', or we wouldn't be here. I very often try to impress on growers the idea that plants have natural rhythms, and it's better if we learn to work with the plant, playing to the its strengths or strong periods during the growth cycle and making allowances for periods during which the plant is weaker. Not only does that make things easier for the grower AND the plant, it also increases the sense you're being a better nurturer by laying plans and timing activities in consideration the plants' natural rhythms. Just some things to think about ................ T-storms here. Al