laddy lad, i have two suggestions for you. the first has nothing to do with your particular question here, but will help with many of your questions/ comments on GW: 1) include at least your zone in your GW moniker. a location would be even better both for your giving and receiving accurate/efficient information. 2) get a copy of Tracy di Sabato Aust's book, The Well Tended Perennial Garden. it's a terrific reference and will detail for you all the major perennials, when and how to cut them, prune them, plant them, etc etc. congrats on your eupat. gateway . It is a terric plant and will likely get up to 6' for you, DEPENDING UPON WHERE YOU ARE!! as a perennial, it will die back before winter so you have a choice of cutting it back before winter or in the spring when the garden starts to grow again. your aesthetic decision. same with all perennials. their stems all die back by winter. shrubs , vines and trees are different. best, mindy

I think your spot sounds perfect for Joe Pye Weed. They are fast growing and the flowers receive heavy attention in late summer from the insect population, lots of bees and butterflies. I found the soft purple/mauve/rose color to be very blendable & easy to use. Foliage always stays nice and crisp looking until frost and the stems always stay erect. No staking is necessary. Gateway looks nice with black-eyed susans, pink turtlehead, grasses, and any pink or wine toned early garden mum, such as Clara Curtis. Beware, however, that in a wet spot the plants may get taller than advertised. My Joe Pye Weed, Eupatorium fistulosum 'Gateway', planted in a moist low spot (in heavy clay) went up & up, to a good 10 ft. tall, not the 4-7 ft often noted on planting tags. Cutting them back greatly reduced the flowering. Timing the cutback (which I never actually mastered) seemed to have a lot of impact on the flowerheads and the eventual height. Sometimes I had small flowerheads, but plenty of them, sometimes the flowerheads were broken, sometimes not much flowering at all - and all this varied on 3 ft to 8 ft plants with no rhyme or reason that I could see. I eventually moved them to a drier spot (but still moisture retentive clay) and they now get only 4-5 ft tall and don't have to be cut back. On a restricted water diet, each plant is currently about 2 ft wide, but will probably reach the 3 ft width Eric mentioned. In the 10 years I have had Gateway, I have only had one seedling pop up. That may be a result of my heavy soil, crowded conditions and mulch. BTW, it showed itself last year in the middle of a yellow and blue-purple bed & it's still there this year - meant to move it, but kind of like it there at that time of year :~))

Christie, I think from what I have seen joe pye weed is the common name for several of the pink flowered eupatorium species. I have the eupatorium dubium 'little/baby joe' (that is what the black swallowtail and buckeye are on), and a much taller joe pye weed that I'm not sure what species it is. It is probably a good 7' tall and 4' wide clump, but was started from some little 1' cuttings/divisions I got at a garden club type plant sale and it was just labeled as joe pye weed. It is probably maculatum, maybe even a cultivar like 'Gateway'. The butterflies seem to like both although the larger one is more popular just because of the size I think. They both were far more popular before I got some massive butterfly bushes that are now the butterfly hot spot in the yard. So if your joe pye wasn't popular it may just be because you have stuff they like even better :)

I have a few short Joe Pye's too (can't remember which one) and have never had BFs on them that I know of...they are nice for late season bloom, though... I wonder if you need a whole small field of Joe Pye to catch the interest of the butterflies...? I planted the white eupatorium (although I think they've changed the names on these again) and I haven't seen BFs on that either. And I have lots of that growing around here.