Just my two cents but I think the way people drive is a direct correlation to changes in automotive technology. Adaptive speed control, automatic braking, antilock brakes, lane assist, and so on have their place BUT those features have taken the skill out of driving. One is now a vehicle operator.

Also a factor is just general inconsiderate behavior. Everyone is in a hurry and they must be THE most important. I've driven everywhere on every kind of road you can think of. There's always going to be that person who must win. I say let them win. I drive at the speed and distance between vehicles I'm comfortable with (knowing well how to handle the vehicle I'm driving). I refuse to jeopardize MY safety to satisfy someone else's perceived urgency.

:stepping off soap box:

Seems that in the traffic lull of covid, traffic control devices became optional to follow and we haven’t recovered.

I’ll admit I can be an aggressive driver, but really only when someone is unnecessarily holding up traffic. If there’s no one in front of you in the left lane and people are trying to pass, move over. It’s as simple as that. And I don’t care if you’re doing 55 or 90. You won’t like the way I pass you, if I’m forced to pass on the right.

In local traffic, especially in neighborhoods, I’m all about driving conservatively. Never know when a person, car, dog, etc. is going to jump out in front of you. People shouldn’t be afraid to walk because of the way people drive.

Last week I noticed a new marijuana shop (fancy, large place) convenient to a busy state highway. Just pull in ( or maybe drive through?), toke or swallow and get right back on the highway.

There appars to be no reliable way to detect whether or not someone is operation a motor vehicle under the influence of THC. There’s a lot of pot outlets. I don’t think this idea got thought out.

I wonder how many drivers are impaired?

The only time we have noticeable aggressive drivers is during the peak season during the winter, with is coming to a close. It is the worst from Jan to March, at which time I see the most out of state license plates. The Canadians are not as bad as the Americans, and I won't mention which states they are from. The local drivers tend to be very mellow, and during the off season, it is very pleasant to drive here.

I'm pretty sure that aggressive driving isn't only associated with particular groups of people or the places they come from. A-holes are everywhere, and come from all kinds of backgrounds.

Also, people in general are acting out aggressively in many places, not just while driving.

Here in FL, if you act aggressive towards another driver - even if they started it - there's a possibility you could be shot. Heck - you can get shot just minding your own business 😒

That's one thing stopping me from tailgating or flipping some aggravating driver the bird - another is I'm a safe driver (it even says so on my license) and wouldn't do something so dumb. I will curse loudly at them tho - with the windows up, of course 😉

P.S. Annegriet, I took driving lessons and a driver safety course, and was taught a yellow light means stop 🙂

Aggressive driving has gotten way out of hand. I could go on all night about it but my complaints are pretty much the same as every one else's. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a battle with other drivers instead of just enjoying the ride to get from point A to point B.

I forgot--he also honked at me when I came to a full and complete stop at a stop sign. I always do that! It wasn't for his benefit. Geez.

I'm pretty sure that aggressive driving isn't only associated with particular groups of people or the places they come from.>

That is probably true in Florida, but not in Coachella Valley. The population more than doubles here in the winter, and for the next two week-ends, the Coachella Music Festival will be going on. Austin is particularly unpleasant during SXSW, and Kevin and I have always avoided visiting relatives during that time, even though it occurs during his birthday.

“Annegriet, I took driving lessons and a driver safety course, and was taught a yellow light means stop 🙂”

I guess we need to not worry about the idiots trying to get their own records ruined.

It's not okay that they want to run stop signs or drive above the speed limit or whatever it is they want to do...

As long as they don't take us out with their own stupidity.

If could have their own road, and we can drive our own safely, that would be fine. But this is like the mask thing. You have to think about the other drivers on the road. You have to take care of them. If you can't do that, you're just being selfish.

I hope every last one of them gets a ticket or two or 10. I hope it costs them thousands!!!

I don't see a difference in aggressive drivers. Some days are better than others. If your driving the speed limit here you are going too slow. On non highway roads the majority go 5 miles over the speed limit. On a highway it is usually 10 to 15 mph over the speed limit. If your going the speed limit on our highways you are really going to screw up the traffic. It depend on the highway. The higher the speed limit the more you dial back the speed.

I was driving the parkway (posted 55 mph) on Sunday night. I was in the slow lane doing 70 and there was a car in the fast lane beside me doing about the same and a car blew past us like we were standing still using an on ramp as a passing lane. Lol

FYI The left hand lane is not to do the speed limit, but it supposed to be used to pass people.

I don't think it's lack of knowing the rules of driving (or technology), I think it's just people being out of control jerks who don't care about laws or rules. There is so much else going on crime-wise and a nationwide shortage of police officers (like, WHO would want to go into law enforcement right now???) that traffic control seems to be non-existent. Here, there are now so many car thefts and burglaries, that the police won't even show up - I guess you can make an online report, but that's it. They aren't going to be looking for stolen property or cars. Most of the crimes are being committed by people driving stolen vehicles. They carjack or steal a car to replace the stolen one they drove to their latest crime. People are just walking out of retail stores with armloads or shopping carts full of goods without paying for them. Store security is prohibited from stopping them, maybe the police will show up. Often the stores don't even bother with filing a complaint or asking for prosecution because it's pointless. No jail, no consequences. So, the same as not following traffic laws and rules, they are not following ANY rules or laws.

Function, you're saying that only if you're passing you may be in the left lane. That would mean one would have to turn left from the right hand lane? No? If that's not true, when exactly are you supposed to get in the left lane? Sorry. It's not only for passing.

ETA: think about it, if you can pass somebody who's driving the speed limit in the left hand lane, you're speeding. Even if it's one mile an hour over the speed limit that's illegal. If everyone did the speed limit or less, then people driving the speed limit in the left hand lane would never be a problem. If you look back where I first posted, I said I don't drive in the left hand lane. But theoretically, what I'm saying here is very true.

Rob - IIRC you’re in TN. Here’s a summary of the ”slow-poke” law which was expanded in 2020. Bottom line, don’t hang out in the left lane unnecessarily.

https://www.ericjburch.com/blog/2020/8/tennessee-expands-slow-poke-law.html

I’ve read about laws like this across several states in the past. One thing that’s pretty consistent is there’s little mention of speed limit. I suspect while they don’t want to explicitly encourage speeding, they’re also taking reality into account and are trying to limit dangers resulting from people holding up the normal flow of traffic.

There is clearly a "culture" to speed limits. In our area, if you keep it within 10mph of the limit you aren't going to be stopped. But when we were vacationing in ND and SD we were stunned to see that everyone hied to the speed limit exactly, even on wide open highways with almost no one around. In village where some had it posted at 15 mph, that's what everyone did, and they did it at the first posting of the new limit even if it was still well outside of the village. So we did accordingly.

We tease that if we get behind someone doing the speed limit, they must be from Canada and don't know about the 10 mph grace. But it's gotten worse as now, it is not unusual to be doing 70 in the RH lane on the highway with a 55 mph limit and be passed by people going much faster. But it is truly annoying if there is a person parked in the LH lane for miles and miles doing the speed limit and letting no one pass or forcing people to pass on the right which can be so dangerous. It's posted frequently on the highways that the left lane is for passing, but some never seem to get the message.

What I find scarier are the influx of drivers from NYC who may or may not have much driving experience who certainly don't know how to drive on our country roads. There are many blind corners and hills where you need to be well over to the side of the road as you can't see if someone's coming the other way. You can pick up your speed and take the middle of the narrow road if you have sight lines. But if you don't, you must slow down and stick to your gutter as you never know what might be coming the other way.

I still remember that one time I had a tailgater...a real tailgater. I was on the highway moving at a decent clip and this woman parked herself right on my tail. She could've pulled around me to pass, but didn't. So I started slowing down gradually, slower and slower and slower and finally she decided I was going to slowly and she passed me, racing ahead to where I saw her park herself directly behind some other vehicle. Is there such a thing as driving monophobia?

rob333 (zone 7a), I'm referring to the highways with on/off ramps. We can pass in the right lane, but the left is for the faster traffic. Only rairly do i have to pass in the right hand lane. We have very few 4 lane roads outside the city limits that aren't highways, except for the cluster retail shopping areas.

If your going 5 mph over the limit, no ticket. 10 mph over you can get a ticket, but no points. If your going with the flow of traffic, no matter your speed, on a highway and not weaving in and out the police are not going to pull you over. On most of the highways for about 12 miles outside the city limit there are very few safe places for the police to pull you over. Our roads are narrow due to our terrain. The shoulders can barely fit a car pulling off, if there is even a shoulder. As I said before it depends on the highway.

I'm a 'go with the flow' driver on our major highways. I treat it as though I was part of a school of fish or flock of birds. The object is to get everyone where we're going smoothly, as fast as we can safely swim/fly/drive. I'm alert to what's going on behind me and beside me, along with what's in front of me and what's feeding into the road I'm on. On our expressways, I favor the middle lane, driving 10 MPH over the limit. I'll accelerate into the left lane to pass someone going slower, then resume my speed when back in the middle. I don't know how fish or birds communicate this, but I use my turn signal BEFORE I change lanes. Satying in the middle prevents having to slow to admit traffic merging into the right lane and lets the hotheads doing 90 MPH have their way in the left lane. On local, two-lane roads, I drive 5+ MPH over the limit. I never try to 'police' other drivers, and there's nothing *I* can do about tail-gaters, slow pokes, or those hotheads except to Steady On.

Going with the flow is the way to drive here. If not it really screws thinks up. We don't have the luxury of a middle lane. But when driving on vacation I like the middle lane also. You don't have to deal with traffic from the on ramps and it is easier to change lanes.

1 MPH over the speed limit is still breaking the law. In reality a police office is unlikely to pull you over if you are going 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit but nonetheless you are breaking the law.

And for the third time, food I didn't say I hung out in the left lane!

But we are talking about incorrect driving. Seems to me the ones who are incorrect are the ones who are breaking speed limit. For the record, that's how aggressive drivers tend to drive, too fast. There's more to it, but that is the hallmark characteristic.

FWIW, not everywhere has 'go with the flow' traffic laws. Not sure if it's changed since I took classes, but I was informed that our state does not, and even if everybody else on the road is also going over the speed limit, you can still be ticketed - no excuses.

FL gets more than its fair share of out-of-towners and just the added volume of people on the roads makes for more headaches. I really hate driving pretty much everywhere now, it's always so busy!

Hubby and I both miss the lockdown days, when roadways here were so quiet.

Today on my way back from lunch, I stopped at a stop sign. I made a full and complete stop as I always do. The guy behind me honked. It's awful.

I am less worried about getting a ticket than about causing an accident by disrupting the flow.

Re: Stop Signs. Here's another place where following the rules can cause problems. The law says to stop at or behind the white line that does or should extend perpendicular to the sign. Then, if you must do so to observe cross traffic, you should pull forward and stop again while you check for traffic. Try to do this with someone on your tail. He will not think you are going to stop a second time. He will run into your rear bumper!

Another stop sign observation: There was a four-way stop near our prior home. At one time we had a Rabbit 'train car' and a Jaguar sedan. I learned that if I was in the Rabbit, I should always yield to other cars, regardless of whether it was my 'turn' to move forward through the intersection. If I was in the Jag, the other drivers routinely expected that I would not yield, regardless. It was *weird*!

I feel good--went to hardware store and CVS and nobody honked at me this morning. It's a miracle.

I think it depends on location. I've been honked at a million times in Atlanta (like when I finished pumping gas and was getting back in my car. I am not a lolly gagging type of person, and it wasn't a hello kind of honk. What?!) And almost never, it's super duper rare!, in Nashville. Nashville, people don't even give the kind "the light changed" beep (they just wait patiently, if you're not paying attention. Not me. Younger me, maybe, but not nowadays). Strange, but there you go.

“And for the third time, food I didn't say I hung out in the left lane!”

Not sure where I accused you of hanging out in the left lane. I’m simply making a case that doing so is wrong, regardless of your assertion that going 1 mph over the speed limit is illegal. And regardless of that being technically correct. Cite one law that says hanging out in the left lane blocking traffic is ok if you’re going the speed limit, and I’ll stand corrected.

Blocking traffic is dangerous and is aggressive driving in and of itself. Perhaps “passive-agressive driving” would be the better term.

This Friday (4/15) on Radio Times ( public radio and also a podcast) they will discuss the increase in aggressive driving . Marty Moss- Coane is the host.

”Marty here: Have you noticed more aggressive drivers? I have … motorist weaving in and out of traffic on I95, plowing through red lights and stop signs, tailgating and not using blinkers if making a turn. On Friday’s show …what’s “ driving” this behavior and to do about it! Open to any and all ideas…”

They include this link Psych Today article

Here we seem to have a lot of ”Team No Hesitation” types. Usually in BMW’s, thread needles like how do they even fit at a gazillion mph, then post their dash cam on the internet. I understand performance shops even sponsor some. When I see them coming I don’t change lanes but will let off the gas to make room for them to pass. I figure I want to be as predictable as I can be, even if in my gut I’d like to pull PIT maneuvers on them and send them flying. There is that dashcam though!

Chisue, we definitely would be rear ended if we stopped twice at a stop sign. We stop when we can see the traffic from all directions.

We also don't yeld for pedestrians, we jay walk, cross against the light, do the wave to other cars, and do the 3 second red light .

We have a 7 stop sign intersection down the road. 5 road and 2 walking trail. Luckily it isn't very busy and it is rair that you have someone stopped at all 7. But you can count on the yuppys coming from the trac housing plan or the joggers not taking their turn. I guess taking turns don't apply to them.

I too am surprised at the casual disregard of posted speed limits. WTH? They aren’t suggestions. They’re the law. At least here in Missouri.

Which is where I believe I’ll stay as it sounds like it’s much safer here than where some of you live.

And if you visit here, you might keep that in mind. Missouri Highway Patrol likes pulling over out-of-staters.

In Philadelphia, green light means Do Not Go! Wait for three more cars to fly through the intersection before proceeding. Yellow evidently means hit the gas because a red light is coming soon.

“Which is where I believe I’ll stay as it sounds like it’s much safer here than where some of you live.”

Per this site Missouri has the 20th highest death per mile rate. New York is 46th. Even the total deaths are close, and NY has over three times the population.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fatal-car-accidents-by-state

I admit that pokey drivers staying in the left lane (so they don’t have to deal with as many merges?) drive me nuts. An awful lot of people here don't understand that its not polite to do this.

I almost always move to the left lane when people are merging, to let them in. Its hard to merge into moving traffic from a dead stop. Other than that, and for passing, I stick to the right lane.

dedtired, that's the usage I'm talking about. I too observe that

I would wager to guess that the people who are commenting otherwise, find anyone who drives the speed limit, even if passing people in the right hand lane, and is slowing them down, as pokey drivers.

As an aside, I don't always go to the speed limit. If the flow of traffic is going fast enough and I need to pass somebody who's in the right hand lane going really slow, I will pass, and I might even be a bit over the speed limit. I just don't abide people who think that the left lane is for unlimited speeding.

On Chicagoland expressways I can seldom drive five miles without seeing a pair of 'tag team' drivers hurtle by at 90 MPH, dodging in and out of lanes until they cross all lanes and exit, evidently racing one another. Worse, MUCH worse, expressways will be closed for hours while police investigate a shooting ON the road. This is mostly on the south side; gang activity.

I don't think choice of lanes has anything to do with a road's speed limit. The signs I'm familiar with say something like "Slower traffic stay right". Drive to the right, pass slower cars to the left is the prevailing guidance, I believe. Driving the speed limit is not an entry pass to sit in the left lane if others wish to drive faster.

Some people go nutz once they get behind the wheel, reminds me of the Disney cartoon with Goofy playing Mr Wheeler where he turns from a mild mannered Dr Jekyll into a Mr Hyde driver once he gets behind the wheel. This is a 1950 cartoon and it's still true today. It's quite funny but in a sad way.... at least Goofy didn't pack iron.

“I would wager to guess that the people who are commenting otherwise, find anyone who drives the speed limit, even if passing people in the right hand lane, and is slowing them down, as pokey drivers.”

Depends. As long as there’s reasonable space ahead of the traffic behind, and as long as there’s a reasonable effort to get the pass done quickly and get out of the way, I’m fine with it.

And if a line of traffic in the right is slow, and the person ahead of me is passing that traffic at a steady rate, I might get frustrated if I’d like to drive faster but that’s just the nature of traffic; I take no issue with the driver.

Hwy 5 is the main north/south route in California. Its central section between the Bay Area and So Cal has two lanes in each direction as it passes on a mostly straight route through a few hundred miles of the boring and empty western edge the Central Valley. The speed limit is 70 and the normal flow of cars is 75-80. The right lane is usually full with truck/trailer rigs, that I think are limited to 55 or 60. Seemingly bored truck drivers often pull into the fast lane to drive a few mph faster than the truck it had been following, to spend a mile or two executing an unnecessary passing maneuver. Between them and car drivers in the left lane at 65-70 for whatever reason (who can't easily be passed because of trucks on the right), it can be a needlessly frustrating drive.

Ha - I've also been thinking about Mr. Walker and Mr. Wheeler all throughout this discussion 😄

And I have noticed lately our local news channel has been reporting a lot of guys - it's always guys, for some reason - caught doing 90-100 mph on a certain long causeway bridge and facing the consequences from law enforcement.

^^^I may have seen a bit of myself in that!

It's amazing how many suckers are following traffic laws. IDIOTS

Not around here they’re not!

Lots of dangerous drivers that do not heed traffic lights here in So Cal. Passive-aggressive drivers? Just this morning on my way to the grocery two seperate drivers did not stop for their red, almost hit one. In both cases they were turning right and they did not even slow down enough to stop. Made the turn without a pause, apparently assuming no one would be there.

I rarely see officers pulling over cars for traffic citations in my city. Our police department is understaffed, so I expect that this is the least of their worries. That said I am sure there are more injuries and traffic related deaths since people have no worry about getting a tickets and seem not to care about the possibility of injuring themselves or others. Very scary and frustrating.

Reminds me of the time many years ago where the police union in town was unhappy with their raise, so they decided to have a" job action" by handing out a lot more tickets figuring the townspeople would get upset and support them. Instead the people were quite happy they were doing it and wondered, isn't that what they're supposed to be doing all along?!?

Given what a few comments in this thread imply, I'm an aggressive driver. I'd not consider myself that, though. I go with the flow, either speed up, slow down, or move over as the case may be. On the highway it seems crazy to do the speed limit - - - I typically drive 10 miles over. NOT on a side street or similar road, but on a highway. Sometimes 15 miles over - oh my.

Those that drive the speed limit in any lane but the far right on a highway are very annoying. About 1% (my probably erroneous estimate) do. Everyone else helps to keep things moving by keeping up the flow of traffic.

Of course there are idiots that fly by and zig and zag - but that's not the majority, in my opinion.

I'm not in a race on the road, but neither do I want to be an obstacle.

As for "even 1 mile over the speed limit" being illegal, you can't be serious that those drivers should get a ticket. Ever eat a grape in a supermarket? That's stealing, so that's illegal. Ever get a parking ticket? Well, that's because you did something illegal. Call the police!

Sigh.

Saw this one yesterday, edited for appropriateness - you're welcome 😃

Glad I don't eat grapes in the supermarket.

But if we're talking about illegal, illegal is illegal. It doesn't make it okay just because everybody does it. Justifying all along the way. Be irritated when somebody is doing the speed limit in the left lane (and I was actually talking about city streets all along...), but at least they weren't doing anything illegal. I'm more than happy to stay in the right hand lane and let them get their speeding tickets.

I will say, his thread has been very telling.

Out main freeway and the only one in a good part of thr state is the same one Elmer wrote about I-5 It’s usually 3 lanes, often only 2 in some rural areas and 4 thru parts of urban area. I’m mostly on the 3 lane sections and it is clogged with truck traffic. Usually bumper to bumper in the right lane, then the middle lane is filled with trucks that think the right lane is too slow for them, so the are technically ”passing” the trucks in the right lane but they never move right ( or don’t for miles and miles). Both lanes are often so clogged that it’s not safe to try to squeeze in, or if you do, you are walled in on 3 sides by big rigs. Often they are driving an ok speed, but our feeways have lots of hlls, so they slow on the hills. Woe be to the drivers who want to try to get into the left lane to get out of the clog because it is filled with cars who think they are entitled to drive there exclusively because they are going over the limit. They never move right and if you get in their way they will tailgate even if there is no break in the trucks for you to move over and get out of their way. And I’m not talking about me going slow in the left lane; it doesn’t matter how fast you go, the aggressive drivers want no one in front of them.

FOAS

Per this site Missouri has the 20th highest death per mile rate. New York is 46th. Even the total deaths are close, and NY has over three times the population.

I believe that many of those deaths are from cars falling into 'potholes' never to be seen again. Missouri has the forth lowest gasoline tax in the country and many of the roads show it. Almost every statewide general election has a proposal to raise the gas tax and it generally fails by a close margin. That is one tax increase I vote yes.

It could also be people hitting cows on the road. I've had near misses several times over the years.