Entry Wall Transition With Adjacent Hallway Entry

2 years ago

The current plan has a small area front door entryway with a tall 12 ft ceiling. From there you enter the living room with 11 ft ceiling. Immediately adjacent to the entry is an opening or entry to a hallway (9 ft ceiling) that serves the master suite.

First, the little 'wing walls' are only the std 4 in thick which I asked them to thicken at project kickoff as a redline. The framers didn't receive the redlines but I reminded them and they are going to take care of that adding additional studs to 'thicken' the that front entry wall - notably the wing walls at the entry.

But I'm still not sure I like the appearance of that wall from the perspective of the living rm. I put together a 'sketch' to render it from that perspective and it looks like a giant inverted 'L' with a lower entry next to a higher entry...

So I had a few ideas like this to make the wall just surrounding the the entry more symetrical and stand apart a little from the smaller/lower entry to the hallway. Maybe the overall wall wouldn't look so monolithic so to speak..

Note that the fireplace is stone.

Option A - pretty simple

Option B - also thickens the bookcase wall but on the inside of the hallway

Option C would produce a slightly deeper fireplace on the left side (2'-2") and thus not symmetrical. Or maybe they could do that with drywall.

I tried to sketch what any of these options might look like in 3D from the living rm perspective - it's crude but hopefully it conveys the idea. (fireplace would be stone - rest is drywall)

Featured Answer

3onthetree

2 years ago

There seems to be a lack of detail (design) on the documents. You do not want the framers designing for you. Just to set the table for you, so to speak:

1. Consider that the porch is 12' high. You have an 8' high door w/double sidelites and a transom at 11' (your 3-Ds shown incorrectly). Consider that at such a short depth of Entry, this space should be considered "part of" the exterior flowing inside, and the 12' ceiling height is necessary for the door/transom.

2. The coffered ceiling is unclear. Shows 11' ceiling + 12' coffers, but states 24" step, so actually 11'+13' or 10'+12'?

3. There are no "headers" shown (it would be a double "dashed" line) but just a "soffit" (a single "dashed" line), but the framers have put "headers" in contrary to the documents. These "headers" should be consistent throughout the house (having/not having them, an heirarchy of heights, cased/not cased).

4. "Thickening" exposed ends of walls should be consistent throughout the house (and will probably give you trouble in some areas).

5. Double check your hearth dimensions for the type of FP you have, as the hearth may need squared off to meet side dimensions which will extend into the circulation space of the Vestibule.

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Comments (9)

PRO
PPF.
2 years ago
Why is the entry 12'? It's really odd that you walk into a space that's 4', but with a 12' ceiling. Then immediately enter a room with an 11' ceiling. What's the purpose of the wing walls?
HU-528228756
Original Author
2 years ago
Just returned from the site. Framers stopped working a couple days ago due to weather and will resume Monday. But I noticed 2 things. about the entry framing thus far that don't follow the plans:

1. They appear to have a slight drop down header wall between the 12 Ft entry and 11 Ft Living Rm - I'd estimate it at about 10 Ft. I don't mind it - I think it is probably appropriate and will leave as is.

It would look something like this I am guessing...

2. The hallway that the plans show as 9 Ft ceiling is currently framed at 11 Ft ceiling. I suspect they have to frame it that high to tie in to the overhead beams and will perhaps drop the ceiling to 9 Ft. But if I left it at 11 Ft (same ht as connecting Living Rm) - that might open up some possibilities... Raise entry header ht to hallway (vestibule) to say 10 Ft and put an transition arch in the Vestibule/Hallway to next room. For example... (see below)
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HU-528228756
Original Author
2 years ago
...and thinking out loud - could put an arch over the entry and drop the Hallway (vestibule) entry back to 8 Ft.

That would kinda sorta match the transitions we settled on for the far opposite side of the public space where the dining room and back kitchen are as noted in this thread (solution at bottom of thread).
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
2 years ago
Where is the designer of the house in all of this??
HU-528228756
Original Author
2 years ago
@3onthetree - thanks for the feedback.

#2 - I'd say you caught an error or inconsistency. I believe it is supposed to a 2 ft step with ~1 ft beams (10" actually). making it a 13 ft ceiling and not 12 ft as shown. Will need to clarify.

#3 - that is correct on the original/current plan there are no headers shown. (I suspect they may be forced to put a header there to carry the load of the beams across the Living Rm - purely a guess on my part). But your last sentence on #3 really gets to the heart of the issue. All interior doors are 8 ft. so technically they have an 8 ft header. There are a several entry ways that are 'thicker' at around 12" with arches starting at 8' (and peaking at roughly 8' 6").

That means the Entry and Vestibule have always been 'unique'. Bringing the entry out 4 inches from Vestibule wall allows me to introduce an arch with symmetrical columns. That somewhat matches the arch on the other side of the same public space that also has an arch protruding slightly and is between the kitchen and dining areas.

So that leaves the vestibule as the odd one. With an 8 ft header it would be the same height as all the other headers with doors - albeit there is no door there. That was about the best I could come up with. Or we could leave the entry to the vestibule as designed - open all the way to 9 ft instead of the 8 ft header. But that would be more 'unique' than having an 8 ft header like doored entryies.

#4. Ignoring doors - there are no other wing walls except a couple short ones in walk in pantry. But to keep consistent with the 12" thick arched entryways elswhere - the entry wall may need to be tripled with 2x4s not doubled to get it more consistent. Something like this:

Or This - the later one below having the arch extend 8 in vs 4 in away from Vestibule wall...

#5 - I was concerned that if we double up the thickness of the vestibule wall especially on the inside (bookcase) it would throw off the depth of the FP relatively to the other side of the FP. Currently both sides of the FP are 1'-10". Which was an argument to leave the vestibule side of the wall as-is.

My 3D sketches are very crude and I did not include things like lights around the front door - just threw a door on there to give us a rough idea on how it might visualize is all.

@3onthetree - thanks,
HU-528228756
Original Author
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
If there's a strong recommendation to thicken the vestibule wall - here's some permutations... which shouldn't disturb the symmetry of the FP hopefully... Though I don't think you can go w/ a header on the vestibule entry on any of these.
3onthetree
2 years ago
You seem to have a process down and have an inkling about translating from paper to reality, so I won't mess with your mojo by pushing you in a certain direction. What I can advise is don't get bogged down with too many options - usually if you keep it simple and consistent everything works out better.

I will say that for the Vestibule, in the very last 2 drawings you posted, you have finally covered the exposed edge of the FP stone. If you choose a header or arch, how that meets at either FP stone or drywall is a detail to consider.
PRO
PPF.
2 years ago
For not much money -- $100, you could be modeling this in 3D. This was done quickly just to give you an idea.