dixie I won't stop providing counter arguments as long as there are inflamatory statements made like the ones below - which happen to come from MA in a recent thread. But it wouldn't have mattered who posted them, the response from me would have been the same. I find it disturbing that there is no declaration by MA right up front that he is an architect so that the OP's (especially new posters) know the perspective from which his views are derived. In all of the other forums that I read and post on, this is the norm by true professionals in their respective fields. "I suspect that much of the savings from the use of prepackaged designs and/or incomplete documents is subsequently given to the builder in change orders or noncompetitive cost plus billing. Why are owners so stingy with designers and so generous with builders?" "I think the bottom line is that in addition to a lower hourly fee, a home designer must be providing an abbreviated set of contract documents which inevitably exposes the owner to more risk and therefore more cost. I believe this must account for half or more of the design fee savings." "I can see how these approaches could work for off-the-shelf designs or for spec houses but my practice is for completely custom original designs tailored to the needs of the homeowner's family and the site. A stock plan would be useless even as a starting point and the plans given to me by owners usually just slow down the initial design phase and increase my fee. "

Hi Vesters. So many things you wrote struck a chord with me as we experienced the same issues with my SD, who is now 14. We've had custody of her since she was 5, after gaining emergency and then full custody though a very nasty battle. After DH and his ex divorced SM moved SD hours away. SD began sleeping in her bed, showering with her, being completely dependent on her mom. BM thrived on this - it made her feel needed and important. SD couldn't (or wouldn't) do or try anything on her own. SD became BM's 'bff' and confidant - all at the mature age of 3. This continued until BM found a boyfriend, and then SD was kicked into her own bed in her own room on a different floor and told to go to sleep. Once that relationship ended SD was needed again and back in BM's bed, all the while hearing about BM's relationship woes. Fast forward a few years. We have custody, SD sees her mom EOW. She's still trying to have SD sleep with her (between boyfriends) and be dependent on her. The 'bff' behavior is worsening and we're hearing all about BM's love life from SD. SD is getting stomach aches right before visitations and worrying about how to take care of her mom. All so appropriate for a mother/daughter relationship. And then there was. . . "BM also used to say things to SD (right after I came on the scene) like, "I'd never let a man come between us" and "You're the only one I need" which sounds innocent enough, but it was very much meant as a "look at your father, moving on with his life, I'll never let that happen to us." I could have written that. BM is always saying this. . . in between the men in her life. But what SD figured out about 2 years ago is that her mom is full of sh@t. She started to see all these behaviors factored around her mom and what her mom needed on her mom's schedule. She was blinded by the 'my mom needs me' and 'my mom loves me best' until then, but with the help of her counselor and a little maturity she started to figure it out. I won't say she doesn't fall back into buying her mom's crud every now and again, but for the main part she can she the behavior for who it is really about - mom, not SD. I tell you all this so you know you are not alone, and also to give you hope. Your SD needs help, and she needs her dad to help her receive it, but she can recover from this. I will tell you one thing SD's counselor shared with us that was helpful for SD and for our tongues as we weren't biting them so hard. When you say "I'm always a little uncomfortable when she talks so openly about her BM with me (because I know the "real deal"), yet I'm always very careful to make sure I speak loving and positively about her ." you need to stop. This doesn't mean speak negatively, but you don't have to put a good spin on bad actions. Don't try to make mom's bad action ok. Don't make excuses for her. Listen to SD, let her know you understand why she would be upset, help her with generalized, non leading questions discover why she's upset, but don't then tell her it's all ok and mommy knows best. Later, when she figures out mommy doesn't, you will be seen as a liar. It's ok to say sometimes mommy's get confused, or mommy's make mistakes. This is likely better pronounced by DH at first, but you need to know that you don't have to be positive. Just don't be negative, if you get what I mean. :-) Good luck. Keep us updated, and keep your chin up. You are doing the right thing.

Hi, David, Given that your stated preference for choosing a stock plan, I suggest you have three basic options with regard to selecting the land: 1. ) Pick the land and then find a plan to suit. 2.) Pick the plan and then find land to suit. 3.) A hybrid of 1.) and 2.) Include a study period as a contingency in any land purchase offer. The study period enables you to consult with various professionals to assess the feasibility of your project. If, for whatever reason it's not feasible, you get to walk away and don't get stuck with a piece of dirt. Keep in mind your total investment includes land cost, survey/architectural design/engineering cost, site development cost, home construction cost, landscaping, and any decorating such as window treatments. If you have Realtors involved, be aware they'll expect (okay, the right word is "demand") a referral fee for recommending builders and it's likely to be one of those hush-hush, under-the-table costs. Get real-world cost information for each category and test your budget against reality so you don't end up owning land that you can't build on because you overspent on that category and don't have enough money to build the home you want on it. Real-world design cost information comes from architects and designers who do that work for a living. Real-world site work comes from site work contractors who do that for a living. Real-world construction cost information comes from builders who do that work for a living. Get your cost information from the wrong sources and you can end up with an unpleasant "surprise."

I believe that GC's will add value in excess of their cost for most people, however, that does not mean they are either required or sufficient to create value. This idea that hiring a builder is suddenly going to get you access to higher quality subs is based on a couple of assumptions that are really just not correct. First, there is this idea that only a builder will have access to quality subs, but the truth of the matter is that quality subs work directly for homeowners on a fairly regular basis. Go to the supply house and ask some employees which plumbers they would hire. Odds are you are going to get referrals and if you name drop the supply house you are likely to get a response from the sub. You will have to be more flexible, but a willingness to work around their schedule has value to any sub. That is not the most problematic assumption, though. Just because a builder will know of the best subs doesn't mean he is going to use them. Your builder is going to have the best relationships with subs who are beneficial to HIS BUSINESS whether or not they are beneficial to your project. A GC is not a fiduciary and there is no requirement that they act in your best interest. They are a case study in the principle-agent problem and goal misalignment. One of the big values of a GC is a single point of contact for errors and mistakes. GC's have a duty to oversee construction and correct mistakes that they let happen, but they have a vested interest in not correcting those mistakes, even if a sub is responsible. The relationship between a sub and a GC has value to the GC and it is in his best interest to protect that relationship even over your home. Of course, someone who is not knowledgeable may not catch the mistake in the first place, but is far more likely to go to subs to correct once the mistake is found. If you have been on these forums for any amount of time you have seen GC's make clients eat mistakes that were not the client's fault many times over. You should also consider comparable value here, the OP is unlikely to be in the market for a high end custom builder given the information that was provided about price. Let's not pretend that all GC's at all price points provide the same value. --- The assertion that a homeowner might fall off a roof and delay or derail the project ignores the hundreds of ways that a GC might delay or derail the project. The construction industry is woefully undercapitalized and we constantly hear about a contractor refusing to do work they have already been paid to do. Or any one of a dozen different problems that make your house not a priority for them. -------- Again, this is not to say that GC's don't have value, they do. Take the money you save from being an owner-builder and divide it by the time you spent doing it and see if you even managed to get minimum wage. At that point you will learn how valuable contractors are, but still if you have the time and want to do it...