Branch an ungrounded outlet circuit for kitchen under-cabinet lighting
Robert Jones
2 years ago
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problems with circuit breakers post-remodel
Comments (5)Your electricians were in likely a "rush" and not talking to you because they are unprofessional and doing ILLEGAL work. Were there permits pulled and inspections done? From the magnitude of the work done, I would suspect that you really should have brought all the kitchen wiring up to code. Certainly no NEW receptacles in the kitchen should be on circuits in use elsewhere in the house. As you realized the ITE Pushmatic panel you have isn't the greatest. Having the mechanical part of the breaker fail such that it won't turn on or off is not uncommon. I'm really concerned that they did a lot of "rearranging" on this older panel. It makes me wonder just WHAT they were doing. As for things that won't come on, I'd look for GFCI's that are tripped. Note that a GFCI on a circuit can protect the other outlets. Only the countertop receptacles are required to be GFCI (unless your appliance manufacturer's information requires it for the appliance). The bare wiring you see is hopefully the grounds. Properly stowed in the box, it is fine. Nothing that's supposed to be carrying electricity should be in a position to touch the bare wiring. There should be a cover on the box. Frankly an electrician shouldn't have left it without a cover but often they do when other trades are buzzing around (painters or tilers). What outlet with no ground? A receptacle with a ground pin has to be grounded. If you have older ungrounded two pin receptacles that is probably OK. If it has the three prong then they should not have put that directly on the old ungrounded branch circuit. The only way around this is to have a GFCI there (and even then it should blatantly say NO EQUIPMENT GROUND). This isn't something we are going to diagnose too well via forum posts. You should have an electrician (either the clowns you were using before or a new one) come and answer those questions....See MoreUnder Kitchen Cabinet wiring
Comments (12)Right, that's what I got from Spencer, and that was the ??? in my mind, making sense out of the code relative to the existing under-cabinet lights. Again, these are the lights I'd like to wire with power coming into the under-cabinet from wiring that is installed under the counter and is not visible to one using the kitchen... unless they, like the inspector, bends down and sticks their heads under the cabinets. I see a way to bring the power in from behind, or from the side, not from the backsplash area plugs. Seems if one sells with a lights plugged into the backsplash violation the thing to do is remove the lights before the sale inspection takes place...easy to do, unplug and remove a couple of screws for each light. I don't try to argue with The Code, but I remain inquisitive, and like to see how it make sense from a safety point of view. I don't see it for the lights plugged into the backsplash outlets....See MoreSwitched outlet for lighting over cabinets
Comments (4)This will be an outlet and I was wondering if GFCI was required since the outlet is technically above the counter. I guess not. First a slight tuning of your terminology. By "outlet", I'm assuming you mean "receptacle". (Technically speaking, both receptacles and lighting fixtures are types of "outlets".) The 2005 code speaks to GFCI protection where "receptacles are installed to serve a (kitchen) countertop." (I don't know if the 2008 code has changed this quote.) Depending on the code version in effect, these receptacles must be within either 18" or 20" of the countertop as measured from the top of the countertop. So, arguably, a receptacle placed well over 20" above the counter and above upper cabinets would not appear to be within the ambit or intent of the GFCI requirement. Is this a slam dunk interpretation? Who knows. I can envision a really dense inspector taking a contrary view but it seems clear enough to me....See Moreundercabinet lighting and counter outlets on same circuit?
Comments (17)The NEC is the National Electric Code, but jurisdictions can adopt it in while, in part, or change any part they want for local use (depending on what authority they have, especially in Dillon Rule states). The small appliance branch circuits under the NEC are restricted to the wall-counter space receptacles in the kitchen, and with just a few exceptions (gas range, refrigerator if you really want to (IIRC)) but NO other outlets are allowed. No garbage disposals, dishwashers, lights, receptacles NOT on the wall-counter space. It is easy enough to overload the circuits with counter appliances that ARE allowed without allowing them to go anywhere else. Coffee makers, toasters, toaster ovens, and microwaves ca overload ONE of the circuits easily enough to cause nuisance tripping. By making sure appliances commonly used together are on the two separate circuits a lot of nuisance tripping can be eliminated. It can still be a problem if you try to use the microwave with a large kitchen mixer on the same circuit. If the two appliances are both started at the same time it may trip (both pull more power ant initial start up). Many kitchen appliances are very close to 15 amps (1800 watts) and at least part of the time may be over that briefly. Put two of them on the same 20 amp circuit and a nuisance trip is possible. The fact that many also cycle on and off in operation (microwave on less than 100% output, coffee makers pot heater, taster oven on temperature setting below full blast) and you may go weeks with little problem, and then have it happen almost daily, and then even stop again. If you have a lot of higher power kitchen appliances that may get used together you could even consider more than the minimum required two circuits....See MoreRobert Jones
2 years agoRobert Jones
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2 years agoRobert Jones
2 years agoRipped Jeans Construction
2 years agoRipped Jeans Construction
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