I love the diversity of the gardens shown! It is such a stark reminder of the complexity of gardening...different climates, soils, elevations, and, of course, the creativity of each gardener. As varied as the gardens are, there is always something to be learned by the viewer of these photos. Oh, Diane, the plant in the pot is actually an angel wing begonia with silvery foliage and pale pink blooms, and, yes, Carol, the heat is really kicking in! Molly

It's unfortunate when statements like Mr. Griffith's about "my plants are totally different", aren't accompanied with HOW they differ. When comparing bush Cecile Brunner to Spray, there is no doubt they are OF the same rose, but they are also TOTALLY different. They share the same components, but Spray's are significantly larger in my climate. The whole plant is vastly more vigorous, faster growing and achieves much larger proportions, much faster. It is, to my eye, an intermediate mutation on the way to a full climbing form. It's easily twice the size of the bush, about half that of the full climber, which makes complete sense to me. I don't view mutations as an "on" or "off" proposition, but more of a continuum. As I discussed in my "Poor Old Iceberg" article on HMF (see below), it is common to find bushes of both of these varieties which grow to vastly differing proportions. We commonly see Iceberg here which are happy to remain at the four by four foot range, while others are twice that size, yet are not considered "climbing". It's the same with Cecile. Some are easily maintained as smaller polys with very little pruning, while others easily build to six and eight foot shrubs, yet don't throw the amazing sprays the Spray form does. There is no doubt the breeding of Bloomfield Abundance could never produce the foliage, wood and plant type resulting from Cecile Brunner's lineage. Anything which demonstrates her characteristics are obviously of her breeding and could NEVER be Bloomfield Abundance. I'm thrilled Fred appears to have solved this puzzle, unraveling the mystery. If anyone could, it is Fred! Thanks, sir! Kim Here is a link that might be useful: Poor Old Iceberg

shaz01, you don't say where you are located, and that makes a big difference. Since I am in zone 6 in Texas I have a much longer growing season, and regardless of the size of plant I purchase I have always had blooms the first year. Regardless, it is that three year rule we all talk about. The first year it sleeps, the second it creeps, and the third year it just leaps up the trellis. Many of mine are in the fourth year, and the blooms are just loaded, regardless of how the plant looks. We have had hot dry winds, and the plants don't look great, but they are loaded with blooms. I have blooms on some I have just planted, but the root system on some I ordered were just like a two year old plant. I have had large plants in two gallon pots that have struggled the first year I planted them. I think the variety and location have a lot to do with how well they do. Also consider, sun, part sun ect, which I am still working on. Good luck with yours! Debra

Tina: I tend to like to see my Roses in person and pick them out myself whenever possible… So I purchase my Eden’s from Roger’s Gardens in corona Del Mar, California and also from the Plant Depot in San Juan Capistrano, California. Tina & Diane... that is so strange that your butterfly bushes do not have a scent. I grown A few different varieties… And they all have a scent... that’s one of the reasons they’re worth growing for me. I was actually just at Roger‘s Gardens this past week… Checking out some different varieties of butterfly bushes… And again they all have scent.