Can you provide additional photos of the rooms leading down to that area?

Not at the moment because I don't own the house. The two tile steps lead to a breakfast room and there are two steps leading up to the family room (gray carpet).

OMG, has a building inspector seen that?

Is house being sold because previous owner died of trauma from falling down those stairs? (jk-only partially)

Since it's something you don't own, how would you be able to do anything structural to it? And, if you were to build a doorway there, you would have a step down immediately on the other side of the threshold, and that would be a bigger safety hazard as it would be unexpected. You may have to settle for putting in contrasting, adhesive safety strips at the lip of each step to highlight the situation.

It's a place I'm considering buying. You bring up a good point about having to step down immediately. I thought of that as well. I wonder if a safer step down could be made for the first few steps? I'm also wondering what would be involved in having a safer staircase with distance between the door and the threshold. I have no idea how big a deal that would be.

mdln, an inspector hasn't seen it yet. I'm very curious what they will say about it and how it could be made safer. I pray that is not the case. That would be tragic.

That stairway is most likely grandfathered in, presuming it passed the original inspection when the house was built. So even though it may be a bit hazardous, no one can force you to change it if you buy it. As far as modifying it to make it safer, it's not possible to say based on the information you've provided. Stair revisions can be quite expensive and complicated because it's dependent on whether you actually have room for such changes, and typically that's not the case without rebuilding walls, etc. You can't just modify a couple of steps as there are code requirements for maintaining consistent widths and heights of treads, and they must be within certain dimensions. Bottomline, you're probably not required to change them if you buy the house now but, if you start changing them, you will be required to meet a number of fairly strict code rules.

Kudzu9, thanks. Do you think I would have to deal with code rules if I drywalled up to the ceiling on either side? I also had this idea build a build a bookcase that swings open. As long as there is some type of door covering the opening to the stairs that could work.

hmmm this safety/change to sell could really depend where the home is located. I do not think code violations can be "grandfathered in". Some banks would not give you a loan for a home with such a hazard, some City inspections could easily tell the seller--can't sell until it's fixed. But in our area we saw a stair case which was a major violation able to be sold as is once the home was condemned and the bank was selling it. My guess is it really makes this home feel 'open concept' which is why the walls aren't there. Any stairwell can be gated, the pony walls could be extended the issue would be there is no room for a door swing on that landing. What's the realty listing, there would be more pic there?

Here is a broader look of the room. I just blocked some things in the picture. So, my thought was to close up the half wall with the white trim and to close up the wall with that brown counter. Then the swinging bookcase could swing toward the stair, but this probably isn't realistic. Is there anyting else you could suggest with the larger view of this part of the room? The area where the bike, couch and cabinet are is up two steps like the tile ones. I can't begin to imagine how this room or porch was configured before someone did this.

I'm going to have the agent speak to the agent who has the listing to see what she says about this.

Sorry if I offended with my "died of trauma" comment; I've spent my entire career working in emergency department trauma centers and my humor can sometimes disturb non-ED folks.

Maybe extend pony walls on both sides to the ceiling, and also extend the side with the grey carpeting out - to be parallel with the other side. Then install a door that opens out (into the hallway area) from the stairs. However, it will close off the "open concept" to the area.

Seriously, this is worth consulting an architect. When I changed my stairs to code compliant an architect gave me several great options in ~15 minutes; well work his fee.

arcy_gw-

Many homes have features that "violate" current code, and are hazardous, but they weren't considered to be so at the time of the build. Ungrounded receptacles were once the standard and perfectly legal. You weren't required to have any GFCIs at one time. Stairways that were too steep or didn't meet current rise-and run requirements passed inspection. Asbestos-containing ceiling, floor, pipe, and attic insulation were once common and accepted. The list of potentially hazardous things goes on and on. But each time the various codes are updated, they don't send the code police to your house to force you to bring your house up to the new code: that's how things get grandfathered in. Unless a hazard was created by an illegal renovation, typically nothing is going to happen when someone buys a house. I'm not arguing that this stair design is not problematic, and I suppose anything is possible in a particular locale, but I'd be surprised to see a local official getting involved to force a buyer to change it.

Love Homeownershows- If you make modifications, it may or may not require a permit, and I can't predict what your local code official will say during an inspection. I think if you want to make the change, you need to talk with your local building department about whether doing what you are talking about: 1) requires a permit, and, if so, 2) would trigger any difficult-to comply-with requirements in this situation.

You can add a latching gate at the top. A solid metal gate would add some protection.

Wonder if walls were taken down (maybe without a permit) to create an "open concept" area.

I have a similar situation but its not as bad as it seems. I usually have a taller objet'd arte here. Is there space enough next to tge carpeted step for a decorative floor to ceiling post?

Check that proper header was installed - if needed - if either wall was opened.

Your bookcase door idea is creative, but will reduce the width of your doorway. That’s a problem if appliances, furnaces etc. need to move in/out of the basement.

For safety sake I would actually do the opposite and replace the pony walls with railings of some sort (so you could actually see the steps down more clearly). The carpeted side seems safer to me, where the rail could go past the pony wall to where there is flat ground, so if you have the room perhaps mimic that on the tile side too by creating more of a landing instead of a step down into the staircase (that side bothers me more). And then if you still want the added safety add a safety gate across the opening to match the new railing?

Agree with lydcrafts! I have a similarly weird stairs/landing situation between my kitchen, basement stairs, and back porch, and wish mine could be solved as easily! lol!

The stairs need to be reconfigured so you enter them next to the wall where the exercise bike and couch are.

Looks like there has been some remodeling, that has caused this safety hazard. I would want to check to make sure that the work, they did was done correctly and that they had permits. I cant imagine any inspector from the city approving this during a remodel, if they had gotten permits. It is also possible, that those walls they opened up were also load bearing walls. I would want that part inspected too, to make sure it was done correctly. I also wouldnt like all those step ups and downs in that area, it makes it even more dangerous, and there is really nothing you can do about that. It looks like a very nice house, but, to be honest, I would pass on it, and keep looking.

There is no code provision requiring full height walls to enclose a stairway.

There is no code provision requiring a doorway to block off a stairway.

There is no code provision disallowing stepping down to a landing, then turning to another set of steps.

There is nothing wrong with the stairs on those particular points. A buyer's home inspector will probably not notice anything wrong nor point out anything on these stairs. You are free to place a buyer's offer with any sort of contingency for the seller to perform as pertains to your desires - whether those items are received well or portray you as nitpicky is a risk on having that offer accepted.

I see 1 code violation and one possible code violation. Get your book out...

This step off to the side of the grey step is most concerning.

Mdln wins! If that set of basement stairs weren't there it would be OK as it's only 2 rises. The problem is the basement stair railing (the wall in this case) doesn't extend past the first rise.

I meant to attach a photo

@ksc36 did you read my post? The items that the OP, and other commenters, have been discussing are not code provisions. Quote "those particular points" are not an OMG-how-did-this-pass-inspection moment.

Extend the foreground pony wall to be equal with the other and install a sturdy gate.

Whoever remodeled to have a open concept, I would question their competency. Make sure a load bearing wall wasn't removed.

I would suspect that the fore-ground pony wall is not tall enough with the raised platform besides it. It should be higher (at least) for safety.

Is there another area that you could install a new set of stairs -- if not yet purchased I would make an offer with a $ concession to relocate the stairs or make sure to have an clause in the contract that the home meets all current code and hire a inspector who does code reviews (many dont) or structural engineer for code compliance. How high is the basement ceiling as moving the access to the stairs to where the bike is will materially change the stair pitch

If there's room at the bottom of the stair, you can simply build a new set of stairs farther to the left, over the existing stair. This will create a landing at the top and relieve the congestion created by the congruence of all the steps. No need for a door or extending the walls up. If there's not room below, perhaps a new stair can be turned one way or the other and still create the safer landing at the top.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I will have a contractor come out to advise once we have a ratified contract.

Interestingly the current owers supposedly have a small child, so I imagine that it was the owners they purchased from who opened the walls up. My guess is they wanted to watch a tv in the family room area from that breakfast area. That would mean that it did pass inspection when the current family bought it. Hmmm. So, to be continued....if we do purchase the house I will post a follow-up to show you what we did to solve the issue.

Again, thanks so much. This Discussion group is so helpful!

Home inspectors make observations that might be of value to those that hire them. Building inspectors sign off (pass) permitted work. Before purchasing, you should always go to the local building dept. and look at all the folders of permitted work they have on file.

Where mdln circled a step off -- that is where you might consider a substantial floor to ceiling post and then add a pony wall to ceiling post opposite that on the other side. That would help define the floor between them as steps -- as something different than the rest of the floor -- and you could clad the corner across from the pony wall to ceiling post with the same wood to help alert family and guests about those two steps as well. Do consider a child gate at the top of the longer stairs as well

ksc36,

The inspection would be done by a home inspector. Thanks.

If you add a post, do c over that entire step and do connect the post to the pony wall as well as the floor and ceiling and make sure you are not creating a stumble hazard at the bottom of the post. You might also consider visually connecting the top of the two posts at the ceiling, especially if there is any concern at all about either pony wall being "wobbly".

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/framing-flooring-sub-flooring/547113-load-bearing-newel-post.html

Unless you are wanting to enclose the stairwell for reasons of heat exchange, you might consider "enclosing" it on both sides with a lattice top half of the wall or a row of posts (think ... railing posts) from pony wall to ceiling -- or other builds that are not a solid wall, particularly useful if you have an extra six or eight or ten inches to spare in the room beside the pony wall and want your half wall to be a built in unit with shallow cabinets at the bottom and open shelving at the top.

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/5207355806334194/.

suezbell, thanks, that is a really interesting idea a similar design might match that space well. I would definitely add a gate that would be high enough and strong enough that would keep someone from falling down the stairs. It would have to be over 5 ft high I would imagine. I have this vision of a someone tripping and flipping over a shorter gate and falling down the stairs head over heels. I have both an active imagination and have been watching a lot of movies and tv over the last year and a half! :)

are the pony walls super short? if they're normal height (as in, you can't easily flip over them), then that's not the issue. if they are too short, you could have them built a little taller. I'd hate to block the light or the open feeling.

if the issue is simply the fact that there's a staircase close to the living room entry way: I see it in split levels all the time. our house is like that. it's kind of like having a staircase that has landings and turns. if it really makes you uncomfortable, you could install a gate I suppose. but unless you have toddlers or really clumsy people in the house, I wouldn't really worry about it.

mdln,

Thank you. Both you and suezbell have given me some great ideas. I think I may have to carry my laundry in a sack on my shoulder rather than a basket with these stairs! :)

SeattleMCM,

Thanks for your thoughts. We're beyond the toddler stage but thinking ahead to grandchildren some day. I can envision a child climbing up and over the pony wall and falling down the stairs. There are a lot of windows around the two spaces so I don't think it will be dark fortunately.

"It would have to be over 5 ft high I would imagine."

No reason for something higher than 36"-40" unless you have a lot of tall drunks wandering around in the dark regularly... ;-)

kudzu9,

😂