Do you have anything over the concrete flooring, such as carpeting?

Have you thought about selling the unit? The real estate market is strong and you might be able to even recoup the cost of the the ceiling repair.

Thank you for your answer graywings123. There is a laminate like Pergo on the floor. We took a lot of it up in the living room where the biggest sag is for a contractor to give us a bid on repairing the floor. That's when we discovered how bad off the cement underlayment is. We bought the condo in mid-June. It was the second highest priced condo that has sold in the complex. The higher priced condo was already completely updated and was $8500. more. We choose ours because it was an end unit with a view of trees. We paid $5000. to have the popcorn removed by an abatement company. It will be $3500. more to give it an orange peel finish and then we have to paint it. We were expecting this outlay of cash. We also expected to put in flooring as the flooring was pretty worn. We just did not expect this issue with the floors and not knowing if it is structural or not. We've been quoted around $8000. to level the floors properly but we don't know if we are leveling a structurally sound floor or not. If we sell there is no way we would have the money to buy another house. They are just too expensive in Oregon and a good chunk of money would have to go into the repairs needed to sell the condo. I feel like we need to consult an attorney but we really don't want to go that route.

What did the inspection report say about the overall condition and did you work with a real estate agent on your end?

Yes, we worked with a realtor who owns several units in the building. If "all" of the units have sagging, uneven, shaky floors then surely the realtor knew about this issue but didn't mention it. We used the realtor's suggested inspector which was a mistake. As an afterthought he said the living room had some slope/sagging (can't remember the term) "like all the other units do" so he didn't think we could get the Pergo flooring we wanted. We didn't really pay attention to his comment, it was said in such an off-hand way. And we knew a floor can be leveled if it has minor issues because we had to have small areas of our floor leveled in our home we had just sold. We thought, "No big deal." We also put a bid on a different condo in the building and had that condo inspected. Floor problems weren't mentioned at all. Both inspectors said the building was as to be expected for a nearly 50 year old structure. The last inspector our realtor recommended has inspected many condos in the building. He has to know about the shaking. Once we felt it in our own condo we started noticing it everywhere in the building and on our own deck! I think we are probably some of the only people who weren't aware of it. Other condo owners are just living with it. It's un-nerving.

I like your answer SJ McCarty. You are right. WE have NO experience with a condo AT ALL. You think there is no structural issue. That sounds good. The floor has to be leveled or we will have to secure everything to the walls. The area along the walls is rigid and at least 5/8" taller than the center of the room in the living room. The rest of the floors in the condo are wavy like a fun-house mirror and are trip hazards. So the vibration is there to stay but we can install carpet to mitigate it some. I'm a little unclear about option 2. Full repair of the gypcrete and laminate flooring. By full repair do you mean taking out the current mess of gypcrete and replacing it or do you mean having someone level what we have with a topcoat of new gypcrete? (Interesting aside... A gypcrete flooring company gave us an estimate of $8000. to level the gypcrete, and a general contractor gave us a bid of $750. to level it. We don't know if one is a rip off or if the other one would be doing an inadequate job.) We sold our camper yesterday, and my husband's motorcycle this morning. I have two offers on my car. We probably have enough cash now to level the floor and put in Pergo if that will work. It sounds like the condo is always going to shake no matter what? If it were your condo would you go with the $8000. bid or the $750. bid? Also would large area rugs with pads under them (our original plan) help with the shaking if we do get a laminate?

Thank you for your help SJ McCarty from Beautiful British Columbia.

So...the $750 dollar bid is SOOO LOW I could spit. It is a 'patch and run' type of process. They will fill some bits and then tell you the work is done. What they will not tell you is a nasty repair like theirs won't hold. It will let go of the lower level and you will have a worse mess on your hands. They are quoting you CONCRETE repair and not GYPCRETE LEVELLING.

So concrete is SUPER COMMON and relatively easy and CHEAP to work with. Let's ASSUME the size of your condo is roughly 750sf (common size for a 2 bed apartment style). The $750 is $1/sf for labour AND materials. That is NOT a good sign. No good! I say GOOD DAY!

The issue is GYPCRETE. It is white and flaky and powdery and a ROYAL PITA to work with. The MATERIAL is expensive to get and the PREPING the original surface is time consuming (remember: time is money) and takes plenty of sweat (sweat = money). So you have money, added to money added to money. That means the $8000 job is most likely the CORRECT price tag.

Again, If you assume the 750sf of an apartment, that works out to be a snick more than $10/sf for topping and leveling. For gypcrete that's just about right (in Vancouver BC, that's bang on the money...in Kelowna it is just about the same). The cost of labour is very expensive right now.

Most of these companies do NOT rip out gypcrete that is INTACT. That means smooth with only a few pits here and there (like where the tack strips used to be when the original carpet was put in...probably shag). If the surface is 90% smooth, then they will top the original gypcrete...using a heavier/thicker amount where there are low spots. This will take time. Plenty of time. Gypcrete is HORRIBLE to work with. NASTY. Cheap to put IN a new build...nasty and expensive to deal with 50 years later.

To get more info on what the Gypcrete contractor will do for that price, you will have to reach out to them for a break down and a time frame for their work - from start to finish.

Once the work is finished, you need to purchase laminate ($3/sf) and I like to see 6mm cork underlay used as well to REDUCE the shaking...just saying) = $1/sf. And then labour to install = $2.50 - $3.50sf for laminate+underlay. You still have to come up with $8/sf for the flooring and install.

Thanks for your reply SJ. My husband read your answers and was very impressed. We are going with the Gypcrete. (We think the original underlayment is lightweight concrete so we hope Gypcrete will work over that as well. The Gypcrete flooring company came out and looked at the underlayment and quoted us $8000. so they know what they are getting into.) Our plan was to have Home Depot lay a Pergo Outlast Waterproof Laminate floor (10mm core + 2mm underlayment) over the Gypcrete. Outlast is $2.89 a sf and Home Depot charges $2.50 a sf to install it. We haven't heard of the cork material you described (and the Pergo does already have an underlayment) but we will ask about the cork as well. We had Pergo (with an attached underlayment) installed in our former home over plywood on the first floor and over particle board on the second floor. We were super happy with the results on both floors. That is why we would like to get it again. Thank you for all of your help. My husband is making calls as I type. We felt very stuck. THANK YOU!!

SJ rocks! Good luck oregonnative- maybe you will sleep better tonight!

I agree thinkdesignlive! We 've been on hold for about 7 weeks trying to decide what to do. Yesterday we called some of the contractors who have given us bids for various projects and set dates for them to begin working. SJ does rock! :)

Awe shucks (kicking a pebble down the cobble stones) you guys. I'm just here to help. As for the pergo, If you are confident in it, then go for it. Do NOT add more underlay when there is already attached underlayment. I causes SOOOO many headaches. Really it does. Save yourself a few dollars and ignore the underpad stuff. The Pergo already has it so nothing else is needed.

BTW: Gypcrete is the brand name for 'light weight concrete'. Kinda like Kleenex is for facial tissues. Just so you don't get confused (it took me YEARS to figure that one out!).

Really hope everything goes well,

Stephanie

Stephanie-- Thank you for the additional information. It is very helpful.

I am sorry to bug you again but I was wondering if you could answer one more question for me? We called Acoustic-Level Floor Systems Inc. (in Hillsboro, Oregon USA) to tell them we wanted to follow through on a bid they gave us for leveling our floors. They said they would be leveling 880 sf and their bid was for $6,946. I thought they were leveling with gypcrete but when my husband asked yesterday they said they would be using Maxxon Level EZ. My husband told me gypcrete takes an expert to apply over old gypcrete and is easy to mess up whereas the Maxxon Level EZ is a self-leveling product and is fairly easy to apply and doesn't require as much expertise. I was wondering what you think? Is the Maxxon product comparable with gypcrete and will it be okay? It's too much money to spend on something if it isn't going to work. Thank you again for your VERY HELPFUL advice. Margie

You are in very good hands. Here's the link to the Technical data sheet for the Maxxon Level EZ.

Level_EZ_TDS_3-21.pdf (maxxon.com)

Don't worry about the whole thing...but the interesting bit states:

"Maxxon® Level EZ is engineered for leveling, smoothing and repairing interior gypsum and concrete substrates prior to the installation of finished floor coverings. Level EZ provides a durable, flat, smooth floor surface with minimum labor and installation time. When mixed with water, it seeks its own level to produce a smooth, flat hard surface."

You will notice the word 'gypsum'. That is where GYPcrete gets it's name. They are going to be using the right stuff. I would not hesitate to use a company like this.

Be prepared for several days of 'cure time' before you can install flooring. Even though the sheet states 'foot traffic' after 4-6 hours, that does NOT mean flooring can be installed over top. You have to wait several days (3-4) before flooring can be installed over top. Longer is better. The product is mixed with water. The longer the water has to evaporate off, the better you are. Don't make yourself crazy about it. Just be prepared for several days.

Go for it. These guys sound like they know what they are doing (acoustic installers have extra training in other stuff = higher level of proficiency).

Thank you SO MUCH!! I feel like it's Christmas morning!! You are so kind to share all of this information with us! My husband and I feel so much relief!! It looks like Acoustic-Level is going to come out in about three weeks and level the floors. It's going to be a long wait but we are excited that we are doing the right thing!! I can't thank you enough! I wish I could send you chocolates and Roses. I hope a very heartfelt THANKS from my husband and me will do. :) I am so excited! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Stephanie! When we get stuff done I will post a pic here. Thank you!

Please be so kind to share the results once you’ve had the work done. I have the same issue in a second floor condo, especially the bouncy floors, and am at my wits end about who to call and how to resolve it properly.

Hu-183233286-- We had the floor leveled by Acousti-Level. We had to wait about three weeks to get the work done. On the day of the job they brought in 2 big trucks and about 4 men. They brought the wet leveling product up via a long hose through a window into our second floor condo. We left the condo at this point. They worked for about 8 hours we believe. We returned two days later. We walked around the condo and the floor looked beautiful. BUT, the floor WAS NOT level!! They overfilled where the floor was high and underfilled where the floor sank. I wanted to cry. After lots of calls, the owner's son came over and said the floor looked beautiful (it did) and said that my husband was being too nit-picky. The man literally said "We NEVER said it would be 'level.' We said it would be flat." (The business name is Acousti-"LEVEL.") We knew we would not be able to get laminate flooring with the dips and rises the floor had. (We used a level and found out the floor level varied everywhere.) My husband just kept telling the man "I want a LEVEL floor." The owner's son finally said he couldn't get anyone to come back and relevel it in the week my husband gave him to get it fixed. The general contractor that had bid $750. to do the floor (and we declined) offered to ask his tile man if he would relevel it. So my husband told the owner's son that we knew someone who could relevel it. The tile man bid $1750. and after a lot of haggling the owner's son gave us the go ahead to pay the tile man out of the money we were to pay him. The tile guy hand-leveled it and it is pretty level now. We believe something went wrong the first time. Either the crew that was sent was inexperienced or the mix they used was defective or not mixed right. A self-leveling material does not flow uphill. The tile man had to grind down as much concrete as he had to raise. My husband thinks possibly the first crew manually moved the leveling material around which raised some areas and left some sunken.

I am glad that the entire floor is now covered with the leveling material. (Some type of gypcrete???) I am sad that after paying almost $7000. the floor was not done right the first time. It should have worked but something went wrong. If my husband had not been assertive and not continued to reply (like a broken record) "I want level floors" I don't think ANYTHING would have been done. Our floors were FINALLY leveled the second time about a week ago. We decided to not get laminate floors. We are getting Luxury Vinyl Planks instead. The flooring we originally wanted, both our first and second choices, were no longer in stock thanks to all of the delays. The flooring we did get is beautiful but doesn't match our other wood furniture. We couldn't find a good match. (Lots of shortages of everything due to the pandemic.)

The smartest thing we did was to NOT pay the company ANYTHING until after they were done. I think that's why they allowed someone else to relevel the floor and be paid out of the money we owed the leveling company. Once the floors were level we paid both places. We did get three bids for the work which were pretty similar in cost but we went with the first company that could do the work. I think with hindsight I would ask for references FROM INDIVIDUAL CONDO OWNERS (not NEW builds) and then CALL THEM. You should definitely get a company's CCB # and look up their record with your states Construction Contractor's Board. Also you should look up the company with the Better Business Bureau. We had looked up the company we hired and they had a spotless CCB and BBB record so a spotless record doesn't mean they have always done a good job.

We found three floor leveling companies and got three bids by googling "floor leveling companies in (your city or state.)" It was difficult to find companies and difficult to find people who had time to do the job. Two other companies we found (but did not use) were Ultra Quiet Floors, and Sound Floors.

Four months later: Was it worth it? It would have been almost perfect if the first company had done a good job. Once the tile man leveled the floors, yes, it was worth it. The floors seem to be level and we are no longer (literally) tripping over them because of how uneven they are. They were AWEFUL. We are crossing our fingers that we can have our LVP flooring installed. The same GC that hired the tile man is also hiring the crew to lay the floor and if it isn't totally level we expect him to level it again if needed so we can have the flooring we want, and have already purchased. We are adding an underlayment which the GC recommended to help stop noise transmitting to our downstairs neighbor's condo. The floor still vibrates but it is much better and we do not have flooring or furniture in yet. We are also adding room size rugs to the bedroom and living room which we believe will help with the shaking and also help to stop noise transmission to our neighbor's condo. I have read that the weight of furniture helps stop the vibration. I hope that is true. Now that we have been walking on the floors for about 4 months I am not quite so unnerved by the shaking. I've also been assured by several people including SJ McCarthy (above), a structural engineer, and a former boss of my husband's who is a structural engineer with many condo's under his belt, that the "vibrations" we are feeling are normal for condo's built in the 70's.

I didn't mean for this to be so long but man could I have used some reassurance when we ran into this problem last June. If I can answer any questions you might have, please ask. I am glad to help. If I were to do it again, I would get the floor leveled for sure but I WOULD NOT DO IT if I couldn't get references. And I think I would watch the work being done as best I could and definitely NOT pay them until the job was done. I think that is the only reason the company paid for the second leveling out of the money we were going to pay them with. They wanted to be paid.

I guess I would end by saying that I have heard many times, if you don't do anything else, wall to wall carpeting can eliminate a lot of the shaking. I wish you the very best. Margie

Wow Margie. That's one heck of a trip. I'm glad you got through it.

One caution: LVP does NOT like under pad. If you want more sound reduction, then find something other than vinyl. Laminate LOVES underlay.

Make sure your wish for noise reduction matches the material you choose.

I haven’t read all the replies but the top few. You need interview a few attorneys and pursue this. The inspector and real estate agent (etc) have business insurance to cover problems they may cause. Who cares if some of the neighbors are upset that you are doing a law suit. Most likely many will be relieved and support you - possible class action law suit. The process of getting approval of the HOA, even if they say no and it takes 8 months - continue to speak up as you will find where your allies are. Then again selling and letting someone else use (unfortunately common) their realators inspector is an option.

Check if you are on fault lines with a Thomas Map I think or just digging through info on net via Duck Duck Go or some other browser. If you are on a fault line or near a body of water then this floor movement is definitely par for the course too. The condo’s won’t stand up possibly if earthquake…??

If you go through all this and lose which with the corporate sized legal times you might face then it will be a disclosure to future buyers?? But you might win. The insurance may settle instead of go. But Bysantine laws/judicial system and coproatism may make this challenging.

City Inspectors may have documentation but overtly assist their customer who is the contractor but may subvertly advocate for the home owner which I experienced dealing with a malefic roofer. Another issue is when were the condo’s last tented for termites? That may be something else to pursue as there may be discoveries with that which will cause the HOA to address problems. Consider going as a personal enhancement to annonymous progam like Debtors A, UnderEarners A, ACA, or Gamblers A if that is the reason you had to move… GB us all.