Is there a reason you need to change the footprint of the original kitchen? Quite honestly, I like the original kitchen better than the galley lay out.

Hi, Paul,

f I've got it right, your architect is proposing a change to a "U-shaped" Kitchen with a peninsula and relocating the sink and dishwasher to the new window (where the door is now.) A couple of thoughts: If the intended prep space is the new peninsula, the new design moves it farther from the refrigerator and the range, too. It also adds steps to the distance from refrigerator to prep space. Taken together, I'd say it's a step or two (pun intended) backward from your current kitchen design.

If you want to consider improving the current design, you might think about putting the sink and d/w in the island, which would enable a more logical flow of foods from the refrigerator to the prep/sink area and to the range and enable you to create larger landing zones on either side of the range. If you're not a fan of sinks and dishwashers in islands, consider moving them closer to the refrigerator and moving the range more toward the center of the run of cabinets/counters.

For either design, you can draw the proposed layout on the floor or use large pieces of corrugated material to let you "test drive" a full scale mock up of the design.

Do you prefer a peninsula over an island? I prefer an island and would keep the same footprint.

Personally I do not care for this plan.. Your original looked great! Maybe you don't need 2 sinks anymore - that will free up more counter or maybe try a mix of the 2

Not sure of the dimensions or how many seats you may want ..

Just a thought

I don't see the architect's plan as a significant improvement unless you ABOLUTELY MUST have the sink in front of a window (that's critical for some people, but not others, and the way you asked the question makes me think it isn't your primary driver). The architect's plan creates two inside corners, which need special storage solutions to be functional. The one to the right of the sink could be accessed from the opposite, but you'd need some kind of corner storage solution for the one on the left (or leave dead space). I have a lazy susan in my inside corner but some folks seem to extremely dislike them.

In terms of what's in fashion, islands are currently much preferred over peninsulas (not dissing peninsulas as they are absolutely the right solution in some spaces and function comes before fashion, but you already know that an island works in your kitchen).

The architect deduced since I don't ever walk around the right side of the island (where the Roomba sits), I have 3 doors out of the small space but only one small window he believed he'd found a way to 'solve' all those issues. This was his first pass at what he wanted and wants my feedback. I bought the home with the 48" range and its always been too big for me. I'd rather have the counter space. To be honest, I've never really fully embraced the old island for prep because it is mostly a giant 7 inch thick cherry wood Boos block and to keep it presentable I couldn't use it without causing stains. I literally never used the small bar sink on it. Also the back of the island is too high for stools. Maybe I just need a useable island with stools?!

Debbi, that's an interesting idea. The architect wants to put a bar under the stairs instead of all those drawers you see in the picture. We've wondered what we'd do with all the space in front of pantry, across from the refrigerator where our bar usually sits. That would be a big open area if the bar were relocated. I have to go back to the house and walk through how that would work.

I did a mock up of Debbi's idea to see how it would work. At least I think this is what she suggested.

What Debbi proposed was very similar to what I was thinking! I think re-configuring door to window is an unnecessary expense.

You only need one "passage" from living to kitchen, and if you HAD to use that (roomba side) aisle, you would. I think an island/peninsula (island partially attached to that end wall) makes great sense, and I would use some of the dead space between living and kitchen to do something with a curve for a seating area. (Personally I like island seating that allows people to SEE each other & converse, as opposed to side-by-side seating.) See attached. I think a curve would help soften the space and the path around the end of the isl-ensula (there I just coined a new word).

If you need a spot that functions as a desk (i see you have a desk parked there), you could do the seating area as a square (other attached sketch), with the "X" marked being a drawer stack for some desk storage, so that chair is a work spot too.

I assume those voids under the stairs are drawer cavities? (?) Don't know how much clearance you'd need between the front of those and the seating countertop... just enough so as not to occlude drawer operation.

Also, to add some variety and texture/color, you could make the seating area (circular part, or square part) lower (down at table level) and the counter facing the kitchen at standard 36" ht. (division indicated by the blue dotted line on attached sketches).

(LOVE the light fixture, BTW).

Photo of a project we did with similar 2-level, with a gorgeous slab of timber for table.

You could do a peninsula without the U, and move the sink & DW to the island/peninsula. Scoot the range more into the kitchen and scoot the fridge over to give you a more compact work zone. It looks like your space might be tight with the island as it is currently, and if you don't walk on that side of it I see no harm in putting cabs all the way to the wall. I would just leave the door as is.

If you change the peninsula to be off the stair wall, you will be putting traffic through the work zone of your kitchen. It would not want that in my kitchen (I would want the range to be out of the path of anyone but the cook), but only you can decide if that would be worth it for you.

Uhoh, a new interesting idea. W.K. its an insurance job and all the windows and doors have to be replaced with energy efficient per code upgrade. A new window would be cheaper than the new door. Would you change it? Also, I was considering a banquette seating dining room right around the corner. Do you think it would be overkill for two dining areas in the small space?

Debbi Washburn has a better idea.

Architects are not good at kitchen edesign IMO. Get an actual indepedant KD to get the best form the space Could you just post a to scale plan without anything in it show where the plumbing is the windows, doorways all measurement clearly marked then we start from scratch . BTW IMO walk in pantries just are a huge waste of space. I also think there is no kitchen that needs a 48" range and the venting system that goes with it.

Ah - well r.e. overkill, that depends on how you use the space -- what kinds of entertaining/eating, cooking do you do? If you like chatting to people when you're cooking, the seating area would be great but doesn't have to be huge. If you use the patio a lot, a perching area there by the big patio doors would be great to have, so there are two sit&chat areas within view of each other. Also great for just two people having lunch/snack, esp. if a ballgame is on? (is there a TV in the living room?). I think I would design the space to "force" the use of the big doors, not have a kitchen door (esp. since that's cheaper). See traffic flow indicated in blue -- better!

anj_p's point is well taken.. if you don't want traffic thru the kitchen, put the work counter on the other wall (right). But I would still not do a "bullet" shape peninsula... why not build in function in that space on back of the peninsula? If a window there is cheaper, yes could do the peninsula similar to architect's plan BUT I would not try to squeeze sink and DW along window wall.

Attached is another option - sorry it's a mess, I'm writing with a mouse on this computer, not a stylus... This creates the U shape work area (with a peninsula), but does not put a full-depth run on the window wall... just a very shallow run of lower cabinets (6" deep? 9"?), running the (shallow) counter along that wall. You'd still have some useful storage on that wall (amazing what all you can store in shallow cabinets like that... all your canned goods & ingredients, oils, spices). This uses that space but does not create the two dead corners AND allows the peninsula run to have sink & dw (I assume there's room ... i don't know your dimensions). Key: "ov" - oven stack; p - pantry cabinet. If you don't need the pantry cabinet, shift the refr. and cooking alcove right a bit, and do a coffee counter there (or put ovens there and do the coffee counter where I'm showing the ovens).

Whatever you do, I think multi-use of that seating counter would be great for the small space... make it function for desk/work but also for eating & food service when using patio with guests.(that counter can function as a desk without being obvious about it... the brown lines are a table-height wood counter and the "X" is a drawer stack)

Okay - must get back to my PAYing work now.. : )

Wow, rabbit... thanks so much. Looks great. I took Charles' advice I mocked up the peninsula layout too. There was 4 feet between the old island and the opposite counter it felt like a lot of space. There was a dishwasher and a small sink on the island as well. Good point about the traffic anj! Not a problem for me but you gotta think about the next owner i guess.

Patricia, I'll work on a floor plan with measurements. That space under the stairs is either a pantry or 6' 5" ceiling'd storage room... not a lot of options. I've carved a little out of it for a bigger linen closet on the opposite wall and trying to figure a wine cooler into some of that space as well. 48" range is gone as well as the massive 3 motor hood.

I had the benefit of walking the space in 3d. Although my initial reaction was similar to others, in 3d I could tell that the kitchen felt disjointed when the peninsula ran from the staircase wall.
Having the peninsula on the exterior wall makes the kitchen feel like it’s flowing from the living room to the kitchen as opposed so creeping out from behind a wall where the dining room is.
The peninsula from the exterior wall makes for a nicer “conversation” between the living room and kitchen. It would be important to me to feel like I’m having a shared experience with my guests in the living room.
I agree with another poster that hiring a k&b designer might be money well spent.

Thanks for advice and ideas, WK. I appreciate it. ;) I was focused on the dining room being the flexible space but now I see the kitchen probably needs to be involved in that plan too.

Patricia here is the floor plan. Everything is being gutted this week, the ceiling, drywall, subfloor and that includes electrical and plumbing so I have a blank slate here.

I got a bit bored on a plane ride home and played around with your kitchen for another 45 minutes, muted pallet, missing some things, but still should help for visuals.

Thank you so much for the visualization. You're amazing! I'm so glad you were bored because it's incredibly helpful to see a rendering of such a big change to the flow.

Really enjoying this evolution. I'm so curious, what happened to make this an insurance job?

It was a hot, smoldering fire in my garage that, according to my insurers 'cause and origin' investigator, smoldered for 45 minutes or more before being discovered. He deduced the fire was caused by a faulty landscape lighting transformer. Thankfully, garages have special drywall that can withstand intense heat for an hour before the wood underneath begins to burn. The structure is mostly fine. The real problem was the toxic smoke.

By the end of the fire the garage became a bellows that pumped smoke into the walls through plumbing and electrical soffits and underneath the raised foundation of the attached structure. Hot smoke seeks cool areas to invade... with force. Even a hole the size of an olive through a stud left a plume of smoke residue in the insulation.

Smoke particles are very corrosive and can cause electricity to arch. New appliances had to be thrown out because of future electrical arching fire risk. A couple TV's that seemed fine, developed white lines of dead pixels across the screen a few month later. Within 2 weeks all my stainless curtain rods started to rust, my handrails and some door hinges too. Later my aluminum windows began to pit and rust appeared on the top of my furnace. Had my insurer copped to the severity of the contamination I would have been wiping down all the metal to stop the corrosion immediately. I had no idea that smoke caused pitting and rusting.

Weirdest thing is you'd think that wall closest to the fire would be the most contaminated. Nope, it was one of the furthest away. The smoke made it that far and started to 'pile up' in that far wall. The insulation was black with lightening bolt shaped trails of smoke. The insulation became like a big cigarette filter and it all needed to come out.

My tip to anyone out there in a similar situation is to not give up or give in to your insurance company. Initially, they offered to fix the garage walls and paint and that was it! Understand that smoke is toxic and corrosive, it can cause cancer as well as future electrical, plumbing failures. Btw, dark cobwebs in corners are solid evidence of a previously smoke filled room. Do not let an adjustor remove them without pictures!

Wow, that's awful. So glad no one was hurt. Such a big job to rebuild everything. Hope it goes well.

OMG!! That's scary. Luckily no one was hurt. You are right about insurance adjusters. You really have to fight to get everything repaired.

So, here is a rendering with less cabinetry on the wall and a corner cabinet on the right side. The corner base cabinet would open to the other side of the kitchen wall into a laundry closet and would house the Reverse osmosis water filter and the instant hot water tank that was cluttering up under the sink previously. I think it's a good solution to a dead corner. How do the upper cabinets in the right corner look is the question?

I like it and think the cabinet looks fine but why less cabinetry? I liked the earlier one too.

Actually I'd like to highlight a great slab of stone as the back splash and remove the lowered vent hood. I've see some hidden in-soffit/ceiling venting systems or I could do down draft as well.

Wowza yes! like a wonderful art piece.

Any other opinions? Is a big slab too much of a good thing?

Hi Paul, Wow your head must be spinning with all of these various incarnations of your kitchen. The slab definitely makes a statement. My only comment is the right top cabinet will be extremely awkward to get items out of from the higher shelves.

If you go with the slab, what are you going to do on the sink side of the kitchen?

I was going to use plain slab of dark Dekton with a textured finish for the countertop and bring it up in a curb to just below the window on the right side. The pic below is that product as a backsplash (not the counter). Or I'd use whatever indestructible surface I can find that lets the slab be the star.

Now that I've gotten used to the U-shaped kitchen concept and am OK with saying goodbye to the door that is now a window, the details of the layout are less stressful. The ceiling is 9'4" so anything stored high on the wall cabinets will be hard to access without a stool is all I can say about the uppers.

I've always wanted the "framed" slab look for my in-line kitchen since I started seeing it in photos but with a U-shape kitchen there is only the one solution of a tower on the countertop. I guess I'm most worried about that solution looking awkward since it is totally my idea, the architect and the kitchen designer stared blankly when I described it. I'm no designer but I think it might work.

@rebunky, this is the original post. @paulf , have you been living in a deconstructed home for the last year and a half?

I will have been living in a rental for 2 years on June 12th. My fire was 3 years ago last march 2nd. Pandemic lockdown started about 2 weeks later. Supply chain issues have plagued me. The biggest stumbling block has been was that Siemens multifamily (this is a triplex building) electrical panels were out of stock for about 18 months and might still be. I had internet alerts everywhere looking for one I could use. Amazingly ONE popped up on amazon that the city allowed even though I only need 400 amp... and there was NO price gouging. I could have sold that thing for 7k easily.

I'll have a blank socket in this panel and its is massive but if I ever do an ADU I can add a seperate meter, so that's good. With that breakthrough in the project since the 1st of the year I've been able to move forward.

My last insurance summary of loss said $2.5 mil... my current landlord will have made about $365,000 in rent in this 2 years. He only paid $320,000 for the house! You'd think that would have made someone less miserable and somewhat grateful but NO. Worst landlord ever.

Paul - we had a house fire on Aug 31, 2020. Ours was a total loss - not because of the fire damage but because of the smoke damage which you described so well upthread. The damage and toxicity of smoke is what did us in. We start framing next week, finally.

For kitchen design we are doing cabinetry and range/fridge against a back wall and a peninsula/island attached to a wall but not a U configuration. Sink and DW in that peninsula/island. I look forward to seeing completed pictures of your renovation.

Our biggest issue was dealing with our district for permits through covid. Supply chain issues continue to plague us especially with appliances. It appears Bosch 800 DW will actually be available when we are ready for it. :).

We're lucky in that one of our sons has a bsmt suite in his house that we were able to move into and which is close to our own home.

I wish you continued good luck in your rebuilding.

Thank you, you too! It's been a nightmare 3 years... I know how it is. Luckily, I've been able to avoid a LOT of mistakes with the help of some very talented and generous people here on Houzz.

@Rabbitt Design

Thanks for the tag to the original post. I never saw this thread.

Wow, your program does some beautiful renderings!

Paul, what a nightmare! Hopefully when you are in your new place and enjoying your new gorgeous kitchen, it will all fade away. I have had fun watching your kitchen journey. What ever you decide as far as the design, I know you will be so thrilled!