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coyotee_duster

Only 10 (!) holes left. Dark colored roses for hot climes....

Coyotee Duster
3 years ago

For the past two years I have been trying to add more roses to our desert landscape. I originally planted about 9 own-root roses in 2007 through 2009. Most have done amazingly well.

We live at 4,000 ft in hot southern New Mexico. Our climate is more comparable to El Paso, TX than other parts of NM. Hot/arid days with cool nights.

Our summer heat and extreme sun is hard on roses, with most blooms going down in size, and fading to lighter colors. Only have 10 positions left for roses, and I am hoping to install some very deep pinks, more violets/purples, and/or reds. Have too many "soft hues/blends" of light pinks, oranges, and yellows. Anyone recommend some varieties that pop strong color, and not fade? Thanks.....


Comments (39)

  • cooper8828
    3 years ago

    I don't have a suggestion but am following this post. I also live in southern NM.

  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks, cooper. I would love to hear from more gardeners in our general location. Do you have many roses? Any roses? Just branching out (almost a pun?), or ....also looking for varieties?

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  • sautesmom Sacramento
    3 years ago

    Not exactly what you're asking for, but my number one heat star is Strike It Rich. It it really only starts to crisp at about 108. the attached photo is during days of 100s.
    Many people recommend Firefighter, but mine turn crispy at 95. You could try it. You could also try Chrysler Imperial, my grandmother grew it in Palm Springs.
    Pope John Paul II is also pretty good, but it's white, so also not what you're looking for. Rainbow Sorbet also does really well in the heat, I don't know if it's colorful enough for you.
    Anyway, here's Strike It Rich.
    Carla in Sac

  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks, Carla for your input. You DO know what hot n'dry temps can do to roses. I have heard of Strike It Rich, but I am not into any more "yellows" (every native flower in the desert seems to be yellow, sigh).

    Hoping for bolder colors, that can (hopefully ) endure temps above 95-100+.

    I could use a nice pure white though, to set other colors off, but don't the edges of the white blooms fry in the hotter temps? Will look up Chrysler Imperial (sounds like a Tea?). Not keen on Teas, only because of the form of the bush. Had Tropicana, which had gorgeous blooms and did well for me, but the shape of the bush was too severe/upright for me. Any very deep/saturated pinks, or purples work for you?



  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago

    Coyote, we love the Yotes around here, our college symbol, not to mention a lot of them live out back. It's hot and dry in my garden zone 7, SW Idaho near Boise. Noseometer could probably give you some good dark rose suggestions. Have you tried Twilight Zone or Munstead Wood? They do well here, even in the dry heat. Ascot does well also, among others. Diane

    Coyotee Duster thanked Diane Brakefield
  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago






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  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago

    The first two pics are Twilight Zone, and the second two are Ascot. Diane

    Coyotee Duster thanked Diane Brakefield
  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    In Southern Oregon we have hot and dry summers and Twiligjt Zone never crisped.

    I also grow Crimson Glory and it has never crisped but it gets shade after 3


    Coyotee Duster thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • bart bart
    3 years ago

    You have my sympathy,Coyotee. I share your desire to avoid yellows-there are already SO many "yellows" in nature. I'm here in Tuscany, Italy,so not a desert really, but the summers are so horribly hot, and the sun is ferociously intense.Just the reflections off the leaves alone give a garden an excess of whites and yellows...

    I am still struggling with finding and getting established several intense darks. Once-bloomers are pretty easy: Erinnerung an Brod and General Stefanik,for example. Only recently have I begun trying floribundas ,so I'm hoping that TZ will do well and also Ebb Tide (though that one may crisp a bit). My general impression of Munstead Wood is pretty good, but mine is in shade. Also Tradescant, but David Austin has discontinued that one (of course, since they seem to only want to produce boring-looking pinks and yellows now).

    Coyotee Duster thanked bart bart
  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    What are the roses that have done well for you so far? And what are the roses that did NOT do well for you so far? These may give you a starting point as to which types of roses or which breeders' roses tend to do well for you. A visit to a local rose garden or the El Paso Municipal Rose Garden may give you some ideas also. The climate here in Albuquerque is a bit different than in El Paso. It's about 3,000 feet higher in elevation here in Albuquerque, so we get colder in the winter, although our summers are still about as hot, and have similar big day/night differential. I wish there was a way of comparing solar intensity. That being said, I find that dark colors are challenging. The dark dramatic colors tend to absorb too much heat, even when it is relatively cool out. Once the sun hits them, they tend to fry. I've been gravitating toward lighter colored flowers because of this. To try to mitigate this, it's particularly important to keep the plants of these colors well watered. If you can, give them afternoon shade or put shadecloth over them. Or use them for cut flowers, and expect that there won't be much garden color except in the spring and fall. I've also noticed that the roses with the most fragrance tend to suffer the most. The local rose society here says that Mister Lincoln is the best red rose for this climate, but he still fries in the summer. I notice in the Tony Hillerman library rose garden, they have Mister Lincoln and Chrysler Imperial planted in the shade of high trees, no direct sunlight at all. My Munstead Wood continues to bloom throughout the summer, but fries pretty quickly (within a day or two) and the flowers turn bright magenta in the heat. Prospero which is said to do wonderfully in Southern California, did moderately okay in the public rose garden, but fried also. Night Owl (climbing rose), does pretty well against a challenging west facing wall. Burgundy Iceberg seems to do okay well-irrigated, although with quilling in the the summer. I've been impressed with Wild Blue Yonder. Outta The Blue is okay, not as good. Ebb Tide and Twilight Zone seem okay with afternoon shade, although they are not as lavender-purple as the photos, especially in the heat. For reds, Opening Night seems to do very well (scentless) as does Rugosa hybrid Linda Campbell. My neighbors have what look like Precious Platinum and Olympiad and they seem to do okay, especially from a distance where you don't see the fried edges that are on all of them after a day or two. Dark pink John Cabot does well in my friend's yard, with profuse flowers for a couple of weeks. It does not repeat here. Laguna has done reasonably well, but essentially a once bloomer.

    Coyotee Duster thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago

    Noseo, I forgot Wild Blue Yonder. It's not the best in the heat here, but its uniqueness in my garden makes up for it, and it's the heat that brings on the multicolored effect. Diane

    Coyotee Duster thanked Diane Brakefield
  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago





  • BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago





    My most heat resistant richly colored rose, by far, is Veteran’s Honor, The blooms are huge , have a thick waxy substance and hold forever, mine is in the front yard in full sun is a garden magnet.




    Fragrant Cloud is another super productive summer bloomer that resists heat and smells great.

    Coyotee Duster thanked BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Wild Blue Yonder here doesn't seem to have quite the color variation that yours have, Diane. Funny how even in a similar climate, roses can be quite different. It does have some fade, but it's not as dramatic as yours. Again, this is not mine, it's in the local rose garden. I love this rose, but I'm still debating whether or not the colors would work in my garden. It also may not be as dark and rich a color as you are looking for, Coyotee.





    BenT, I remember the fragrance of Fragrant Cloud even now, maybe 40 years after I smelled it in my aunt's garden. So lovely.

    Coyotee Duster thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • seil zone 6b MI
    3 years ago

    I don't compare to your heat but when it gets really hot here in August my best red to stand up to it is Veterans' Honor. It's a really tough rose under all conditions.

    Coyotee Duster thanked seil zone 6b MI
  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago

    I totally agree with Seil, Veterans Honor is the best and lasts for weeks in a vase

    Coyotee Duster thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Ooooooh, WOW, do I NEED Ascot!! Thanks Diane, for posting these gorgeous photos. Ascot is just the sort of color that I would like to add. Even though this is listed as a Tea? The roses in your pics have nice form, and look rather big. Growing large is not a deterrent to me, as long as I know where/how to position it. I am having a hard time trying to locate a source for Ascot. Darn.

    I DO have Twilight Zone and Munstead Wood but they have been planted only one and two years ago. Still babes, although both plants look extremely healthy (Munstead W is The Thorny Devil though!).

    We appreciate our "Yodies" ("Yotes") as they help cut down on our overflowing and very destructive cottontail population, and pack rats. They are rather hard on cats, and small dogs though (we gave up keeping any kitty outside.) We finally had a 3 point buck and fat doe show up this winter to forage on the landscape (Grrrrrr), but the coyotes quickly ran them off (?). Frequent coyotes, but no more Bambis according to our game camera. Recent visitors from WA loved waking up to a group of 7 Yotes immediately outside their RV window.



  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks, Kristine, I will look into Crimson Glory. I actually don't have many reds. The only "red-red" is planted in a huge pot. My only Braveheart does well, but tends to want to grow a little "horizontal". Gets afternoon shade from the strongest sun, perhaps I need to move the plant. Nice color. I usually don't plant red flowering plants in shade as the color red tends to appear "black", disappear, in deep shade (not much of this on our sun-soaked property).


    Bart Bart, I didn't realize that Italy also has a preponderance of yellow wildflowers. We get pretty tired of the same hue. I let yellow "strawflowers" take over our frontage along the street. No muss, no fuss, and self seeding, but get pretty boring after a while (tend to bloom all summer).

    My Ebb Tide and Munstead Wood as fledglings, grew well in last summer's horrendous heat, but have only produced a very few small flowers so far. It's disappointing that European rose names and US "tags" are often not the same. Makes it hard for a neophyte like moi.


    Hi, noseometer, who obviously has reams more experience than me. Our locations are quite a bit different, but I suspect you still may have "salty water", and low-nitrogen "soil" (HAH,..wrong description of local dirt?!). Many thanks, for a rundown on cultivars you have grown. I will have to do more research into the varieties you have listed (with very useful comments). Many of these are totally unfamiliar to me. Wild Blue Yonder looks intriguing to me. Possibly better with afternoon shade?? I am building (blasting?) three holes away from a large barn that will receive late afternoon shade. Going to trial a white, Moonlight in Paris, as one of the occupants of the area. Wish me luck?

    For violets/lavs/purples, I have planted (2019 and one 2020): Fragrant Plum, Arctic Blue, Celestial Night, Plum Perfect, Twilight Zone, Ebb Tide and Love Song. These are healthy, but have a looooong ways to go in terms of evaluations. Out of about 40 roses I have planted, only two have checked out (which could have been my own fault) were Easy Does It (replaced by Louise Clements) and Flamenco Rosita (replaced by Windsor Castle Wedding). Two of my favs so far are among the original roses planted in 2007: 2 Lady of the Mist & 1 Robert Clements. These are off the north end of a tall barn but get strong sun most of the afternoon.


    Thanks, BenT for suggesting Fragrant Cloud as I have been intrigued by this one. Sounds great that it may keep on throwing out blooms in hotter weather, and smells good t'boot. Have not heard of Veteran's Honor. Will definitely check into the variety.


    Thanks also, to seil and kristine for chiming in on Veteran's Honor. Sounds ever more enticing. As typed before, I could use a couple "reds" too.


    Part of my holes are in full/full/unadulterated sun. Two more, in the late afternoon dappled shade cast by a Golden Leadball Tree, and three off of the east side of a large barn.


  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago

    Veterans Honor




    Coyotee Duster thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • SylviaWW 9a Hot dry SoCal
    3 years ago

    I’m in 9a, hot dry inland SoCal, only at 1800’ so not so cold, but we have weeks of triple digits in the summer. Darcey Bussell is my best-performing rose in heat, hands down. Chicago Peace is second. Up and coming contender is Our Lady of Guadalupe, but that may be paler than you’re looking for.

    Here’s Darcey.


    Coyotee Duster thanked SylviaWW 9a Hot dry SoCal
  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas
    3 years ago

    Tess of the d'Ubervilles which climbs is a winner for me. Tolerates full hot sun here in east Texas and survived our Snowmageddon with temps going down to 1 degree just fine. Bright pretty hot pink and blooms all the time. I was going to suggest Plum Perfect until I saw you had that. I adore Chuckles.....tough as nails, I have 2 in full hot sun. They bloom all the time and are an unusual shade of deep kind of pink that absolutely grabs your attention from a distance. Love this one! I looks wonderful next to Sally Holmes. I have a 3rd one growing in a pot to plant out later - I like it that much. Heat and full sun dont faze it.

    How do you like Windsor Castle Wedding? I was looking at my potted one today, thrilled to see quite a bit of new growth after our polar vortex.

    Judith

    Coyotee Duster thanked alameda/zone 8/East Texas
  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks, Kristine for adding yet another vote for Veteran's Honor. Does, sound like a stellar performer. But, alas, it is still a Tea and as such may have a narrow severe bush form, simply not "blousy" enough for me? I fall in love with flouncy, full, old-fashioned blooms. David Austins with their posh flowers make me melt, but some of the Austins seem to get kinda rangy/gangly in our heat (could be my own sloppy cultivation though/). Am I being too picky?


    Silvia and alameda, the DA varieties, Darcey Bussell and Tess d'Ubervilles, would be closer to my preference for flower structure. If these can hold their color in triple digit temps?....Hooray! Unfortunately, I don't want any more climbers though, further narrowing the field? Have not heard of Chuckles or Sally Holmes, but certainly will explore...more.

    My Windsor Castle Wedding was not planted until late last fall. Growing Great so far, in the very same position where Flamenco Rosita checked out. Foliage is quite pretty, red new leaf growth, and robust, but it hasn't encountered any heat so far. Time will tell how it fairs, even though the damn (briefly-visiting) deer did manage to chow down on my small plant. Excellent new growth.









  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Falstaff may be another option https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4591156/falstaff#n=70, although mine faded to a pinkish red in the heat, did not tolerate wind, and was a shy bloomer. It was a big disappointment to lose the whole flush of buds to spring wind, since I loved the flower form so much, and I knew that there wouldn’t be many flowers until the following year. Others have not had these problems and have reported excellent heat tolerance and excellent rebloom. Of the roses that I’ve removed, there are few that I regret, but this is one.

    Coyotee Duster thanked noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago

    Coyote, you are not being picky at all. You need roses that make you smile when you see them.

    I do gave 2 Darcy Bussels in direct sun and she grows like gangbusters. She is a hearty rose that blooms a lot even in the summer heat.


    Another really great rose is Brindabella purple Prince.

    This rose has been bullet proof. It kept blooming when its planting area flooded and I didnt realize it.


    kristine_legault's ideas · More Info


    Coyotee Duster thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I grew these in Vegas, NV and they performed well...

    Crimson Bouquet

    Veteran's Honor

    Firefighter

    Chrysler Imperial

    Purple Lodge

    Munstead Wood

    Brindabella Purple Prince

    Buxom Beauty

    Naga Belle

    Siren's Keep

    Falstaff

    Francis Dubreuil

    Nigrette

    Don Juan (it is a climber but can take dry heat)

    William Shakespeare 2000 (noseometer grows/grew this one... I do not know if he recommends it???)

    There's a deep pink rose named ?? associated with the Downtown Abbey show... I think...

    Young Lycidas ( would prefer afternoon shade)

    Pink Peace

    Coyotee Duster thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I want to thank everyone who has responded to my original post. I won't be able to plant all of the enticing selections! Hard decisions ahead.

    Noseometer, I have looked at Falstaff before, and it does sound like a possible candidate, further confirmed by Lynn's list. I doubt if Las Vegas, NV is at all similar to a moist & cool Brit garden?! (Thanks for the list, Lynn).

    I have been surprised by many of the suggested roses, often cultivars that I have never heard of, or read about. Although some have been Teas (sorry, still can't warm up to most of the narrow, "long-necked" forms). 'Course, I do realize that I am not experienced as a "rosarian".

    There are thousands of roses in "cultivation and commerce", making many of these choices very difficult to choose from. Too many roses, and too few holes. Sigh.

    I have narrowed down my number of available holes slightly: I sprang for a Darcy Bussell today (thanks, all, I have read many good things about Darcy), and I am holding one hole "open" for Ascot (may have to wait until next year for this one?). Sadly, "Rome wasn't built in a day,...". I might as well admit that the saying is so true when it comes to gardeners. I sinned by reserving a Marc Chagall. He is hardly a "deep color". Will have to reconsider one threesome with Moonlight in Paris, because of M. Chagall planned for a grouping.

    Still have a couple large tubs to refill too. Purple Lodge keeps drawing me to his flame even though I can't find one.


    This may never end! Aaargh.....



  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago

    I have Marc Chigall next to Moonlight in Paris and it is a pretty combination .Marc Chigall is a really great rose. I bet you will love it.

    Coyotee Duster thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
  • Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
    3 years ago

    Coyote Duster-

    Try Burlington for Purple Lodge.

    Helpmefind.com (roses)... will often have a description for the growth habit of roses. This could be helpful since you are trying to avoid those that seem to be predisposed to grow in a certain manner.

    Coyotee Duster thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
  • cooper8828
    3 years ago

    Thanks for all this great information all! I've held off on buying any roses but now I have some solid choices.

    Coyotee Duster thanked cooper8828
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    3 years ago

    Here, Falstaff is much healthier than Purple Lodge. Hot and dry here.

    Coyotee Duster thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
    3 years ago

    The Purple Lodge I grew in hot and dry Las Vegas was on drip irrigation and mulched. In that climate, growing culture etc. was extremely important and was often the difference between life and death for many roses/plants. There, P.L., was stellar. It is also the only plant that has emerged from snowmageddon here in Texas seemingly unscatheed. Falstaff and Purple Lodge are both beautiful roses, but if I had to choose, for Las Vegas or Texas, it would be Purple Lodge, hands down...YMMV...

    Coyotee Duster thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Kristine, your Marc Chagall must be pretty young? This variety was only released in 2020? Has yours, and/or Moonlight in Paris seen any frying temps yet? Sounds like the plant stays relatively small? Maybe these two could still be grouped together in my late-afternoon shade area, off barn. You don't think that they would both look "all the same white" from a few feet away?


    Thanks, Lynn, for the tip on possibly finding Purple Lodge. I have been to HelpMeFind which is also useful for alternative names on cultivars. Your comments on growing roses in Las Vegas are very helpful, the clime must pose several challenges for growing roses. Because of the long period of triple-digit summer temps here, I also use drip irrigation (but also supplement newbie plants with a hose), and mulch deeply with Cotton Burr Compost (I started using cotton burr amendments in coastal GA...Plants seem to love the stuff). Purple Lodge gets yet another score for emerging from your lousy winter. Will still strive to find this one. Is yours an own-root plant?


    Sheila, I still have not eliminated Falstaff from my pursuits. I grew up in Oregon, so I am familiar with your climate and know it can get quite warm & dry in the summer (actually very nice...lucky you). It would be fun to try both Falstaff and Purple Lodge. Too few holes, and too many (!) choices. Sigh.


    Go Gettum Cooper! Please let all know what varieties peaked your interest, and how well they grow for you. Have fun!


  • noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Coyotee, please share photos of your roses when they bloom! I’m particularly curious as to how Moonlight in Paris does for you. I don’t have room for it, but ever since I saw BenT’s photo, I’ve been dreaming of what I can take out to make room.

    I do grow WS2K as Lynn mentioned. the two plants were not gowing in a good spot, growing in a sand pit with tree roots and poor irrigation, but they survived and did produce some beautiful fragrant blooms. I transplanted them to better areas last year and they are still recovering. So I don’t know if I can give much of a recommendation at this point. The blooms are purple-red and much brighter in color than Munstead.

  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    3 years ago

    Coyote, both Marc chigall and Moonlight in Paris were planted last spring so they both went through the hot dry smoky summer.

    Marc was in a pot and last fall I planted him in the ground next to his new girlfriend Moonlight. They are so different in color that Im sure they will look fine.




  • Coyotee Duster
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks, noseometer for the info on William Shakespeare 2K (?). I have read of some success with this plant in Phoenix. I've read that it can be hard to find, but have to confess that I have not yet looked for sources on this one. I would be very happy to post pics of Moonlight in Paris for you, but I expect that my baby plant won't be any kind of a star for some time (?). Will try though. Most of my additions are only two years, or less. Nice "adult blooms" are likely some extended time in the future(?). "....I will try to be patient,...I will TRY to be patient....", I keep muttering to myself.

    Kristine....many thanks for posting your pics of Moonlight in Paris and March Chagall "together". Yes, I will plant these two together, and put a deeper colored variety behind them to add more contrast. Both of the blooms look different enough to work for me, with only so many holes.


    Have any of you found that heat tolerance (blooms only) is at all related to number of petals? Will fuller blooms last longer before blasting/dropping? Years ago I nixed Outa The Blue as the flowers seemed to have no endurance once hit by strong sun n' heat. Lower petal count make any difference at all?







  • sautesmom Sacramento
    3 years ago

    Coyote
    I think petal count affects shattering, but not crisping.
    Case in point would be Twilight Zone and Ebb Tide, which have similar petal counts, but one fries and one doesn't (and I can never remember which!)
    Carla in Sac

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  • sautesmom Sacramento
    3 years ago

    is William Shakespeare 2000 the same color as Rouge Royal

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  • Diane Brakefield
    3 years ago

    They are close. Diane




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