If the FOIA form requires an SSN, it's unlikely that you'll get far with your request. From my experience, agencies tend to view FOIA requests as somewhat "hostile" and if there's a way to avoid doing the work required that's what'll be done.

It sounds like you've found your way to the proper National Archive site and what information is disclosable to what they call "the public" and how to get it. For whatever the need is, that's likely your only option and it will take however long it takes.

It's probably handled under the FOIA because absent a request from the person or an authorized relative as apparently existing rules authorize, that would be the only possible process under the law by which a governmental agency could access records for disclosure.

Good luck.

Thanks! My next option is to wait for the information to become public which is 62 years from the end date of his military service. That would be 5-7 years from now.

Just a suggestion but I was made aware of a pay site called Fold3 that might help you. It is a part of Ancestry but can be purchased separately. They do have a 7 day free trial. I have only attempted to use it once and found that not all records are available. Fold3 - Historical military records

What's the advantage of using (and paying for) a third party site when you can go to the National Archive directly?

The records are not in the public domain and so any "service" must be acting simply as an agent for the requestor and thus standing in the same line as everyone else, while the National Archive works down the waiting requests that have accumulated.

As far as availability - there was a fire at the storage facility many decades ago and a good chuck of 20th century military records, many of those from WW1 and WW2, were destroyed by fire or water damage.

I personally used the NA service about 5 years ago, out of curiosity, because I'd never received my own DD214 and Honorable Discharge paperwork. I remember that the response was surprisingly quick, first an email confirming receipt and then about 10 days later copies of the paperwork arrived in the mail. It turned out that each was addressed to a different old address of mine and were not forwarded to me. so that was why I never received them. The items are plain and as if mimeographed documents that aren't much to look at but I'm glad to have them all the same.

Thanks, This would be the Vietnam era so none of the genealogical sites have the information I need. The person is still living and is claiming he was sent to Vietnam.

He is known to lie so I just want proof. He claims it was top secret. ( eyeroll)

I know he lies but he is very charming and a narcissist so many people believe him even though the time line does not add up.

I wonder how the media has access to the FOIA without a SSN for the person.

My husband's records missed being totally destroyed in that fire by two days however they were so badly damaged as to be almost unreadable.

Truth or not my husband DD214/discharge paper from the Air Force does not show that he ever left the country. Where he was for that year??? He finished out his tour in Washington state later.

I had hoped that with the paperwork I could have received assistance to pay for his nursing home care based his tour in Vietnam as a aircraft fueler causing his neurological problems.

Any way what the OP is looking for based on what my husband's records show may not be on his discharge record but on his actual service record so that is what should be looked for.

With a quick web search, I found this information. It is not a direct answer to your question of FOIA, but pertains to finding out if someone served in Vietnam. I don't know if it will be helpful or not.

https://historyhub.history.gov/thread/2554

That's an old ploy, a wrinkle of "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you". To say "I did something but it's classified" ends the pursuit trail right there, a common tactic of liars when it comes to governmental things.

If indeed it's true, actual black deployments and many other wartime classified matters can remain so seemingly forever. Or are never entered into a service record to begin with. Requests could come up blank or missing the expected info. So, a null response could be claimed by the story teller to be evidence corroborating his tale.

FOIA has many wrinkles to it and handled differently at different agencies. Some are known to take a long time, the stalling tactic, years and years and years. I've read comments of many authors investigating various DoD or intelligence agency matters that should be releasable even if with redactions that have taken 10 years or more

But that wouldn't be the case for simple military records. If you look on the National Archive page for military records, it explains what a public request under FOIA is limited to and its triage policy to prioritize actions on different types of requests.

Well, In a couple of weeks, I will have an opportunity to ask him in front of family and friends about his service. Unfortunately, I think he will dodge the question.

You need to invite a couple guys who spent time in Viet Nam to quiz him.

Early last summer, one of the local TV stations did a segment on a Vietnam veteran’s release from hospital after a multiple month stay. They said he never took off his Vietnam Veteran ball cap during his stay. Upon discharge, he was met by a local Vietnam veteran group, wearing their “colors” as he was wheeled past to his ride. They gave his age as 63.

Saigon fell in 1975 two years after the US began a rapid deescalation in 1973. Even if he was there at the end he would have only been 18. I read a newspaper account that also gave his age as 63. I kept wondering if the age was reported in error, he enlisted at an early age, or something else but never heard a follow up on his story.

I understand your WANT to get things straight but to say you have a right to that information or it is your job to root this out of another adult is wrong thinking. This is exactly why one needs SSN to dig out specifics. American's really over expose this idea of "right to know".

There were many in Vietnam who were 18 since that is the age that they could and were drafted. My husband joined the Air Force his other brothers joined the Navy and Marines so they would not be drafted into the Army at that age because they all had low numbers. Then there were the ones whose parents signed the papers so they could enlist at age 17.

Arcy, I agree with you but I have a very unusual situation. This person has financially benefitted from his lies and has deeply and directly hurt me because of his lies.

I think it is sick when people lie about their military service.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice.

"American's really over expose this idea of "right to know"."

I don't think Americans (no apostrophe) generally do what is suggested. This is a specific instance, concerning a relative, telling what's thought to be a tall tale. In a pattern of lies this person tells. Trying to catch the liar in a lie he can't talk his way out of.

If I were in this situation, I'd let it drop. For me, it's disgusting how people can lie about anything at all, there's nothing special about military service. I have no time in my life for liars and I jettison them as fast as possible.

Even some truth tellers try to gain advantage and exploit the notion that there's something noble about being a veteran, having been in the military, how that shaped and defines their entire life. Sorry, no. If that's the case for someone, there must not be much else that person did in their life that was worthwhile. For me (also a veteran and so what?), if that's the drum people want to beat regularly as some do, fine. It's a reason to feel sorry for them, not a basis to venerate them for. Most veterans I know see their service years, whether voluntarily or otherwise, as just an aspect of their youth along with many others. Not a defining experience by any means other than the unfortunates who because of wounds or PTSD, had their lives changed. They're a small minority.

He was drafted in September of 1961 and and was back in town by November, 1961. At some point, he claims he was injured while serving in the army and has a disabled veterans vehicle tag. I was told it was a jeep accident. Now all of the sudden, he tells me he was sent to Vietnam right out of boot camp.

The time line does not match up.

This was before I was born and most family members have passed. He has been married numerous times and the current wife believes him.

Army boot camp is nearly 10 weeks long and can be a little longer. Or at least it was 9 years later when I went through it. And after that was a minimum of several months more (for the cannon-fodder grunts) and longer for other military jobs.

Are you saying he left and was back in 2 months? Or was it November of the next year? If so, that still wouldn't have been long enough to complete what in later years was a 12 month tour for most Vietnam deployments. In the years 61+62, the US military presence was of what were euphemistically called "advisers". Small in numbers (some thousands but increasing), officers and senior NCOs (which would not likely have included recent draftees). With extensive training before going.

On its face, it sounds like baloney but it's hard to be sure. If this guy dances around with the truth with other things, you need some bread, mustard and mayo.

Elmer, exactly. Yes, November of 1961. The timeline does not match up.

Another lie... He claims to have graduated college on a full athletic scholarship.

He was awarded the scholarship but somehow he was let go from the team the first semester. ( I discovered this online.)

I contacted the university and he never received a degree. He attended for almost three semesters.

Again, he is good-looking, charming and a narcissist jerk and unfortunately a close family member.

Two months? No, very, very, very extremely unlikely to be true. No one gets a duty assignment without boot camp (the real name for which is Basic Training) and added occupational training, and these can't be completed in 2 months.

If he began active duty and was out in 2 months, his only activity would have been boot camp and not enough time to finish it. Could it have been a medical discharge for being medically unfit, a dishonorable discharge for bad conduct, or a general discharge for some other irregularity? Even with those, the Army doesn't necessarily move so quickly. I had a friend with me on active duty and an injury disclosed back problems he didn't know he had. He was excused from training and restricted to barracks to await processing of a medical discharge on honorable grounds. An open and shut, uncontroversial case (he had bone spurs and herniated disks) and It took 5 weeks. It took place when we were in occupational training, after boot camp, so he wound up having nearly 6 months of active duty all the same.

Could your relative have had a reserve assignment? Boot camp then monthly meetings with life as a civilian? Still not enough active duty time to complete training.

I wouldn't waste any time trying to investigate. It's clearly untrue in my view and not a very well done lie.

Even though you want info for a “gotcha” moment hoping to root out his lies ( that you believe he’s telling) you probably should realize that someone embellishing or outright lying is just going to dismiss your “proof” as clerical errors or dummy records created to cover up his “highly classified” service. He’s never going to cop to lying.

Sometimes we have to let go of the righteous mission to be the one to bring someone else down and let him simply live with the consequences or karma of his lies. It’s not really your job. It’s not going to be as satisfying as you hope.

If you think he’s cheating the government or others you can report fraud and let professionals do the investigation.

olychick, good points to think about. Thanks

What Olychick said. ^^^ The most useful thing I've learned about dealing with a narcissist is that they create a strong desire in others to confront them about their behaviour and get satisfaction. However, it will never happen. They just aren't capable and some can, in fact, be dangerous when confronted. It's better to move on and work on other ways of dealing with your response to their poor behaviour. Ask me how I know.

Hey, I'll just tell you that I have run into a similar guy. Worked with him. He, too claimed secret missions in Viet Nam, though if I remember correctly, he claimed he was with the CIA, rather than military. Blowing up bridges at night was one of the things he claimed to have done. Yeah, right, the CIA always recruits blabber mouths [sarcasm].

He had several braggy stories he like to tell, mostly to emphasize how tough he was. He was otherwise dishonest, including in not putting in work for the hours he was paid. I won't say what the work was, but it could have had serious impact on innocent people for him to wriggle out of his work.

I chuckle now to think that he was in his late forties at the time and still lived with his mother. Fortunately, I never had to work closely with him and so I could just ignore him. Some people seemed to really like the guy, but I would not have trusted him as far as I could throw him. I didn't see much likeable about him. He was pitiful, at best.