Thanks @User but I'm not working in the city these days. Business is booming in the burbs. But if S. Allen wants to give me a call, I'm happy to offer some referrals.

I am in LA, not Chicago; however, when I called architects in LA about a bathroom remodel, they said the job was too small for them and recommended I hire a designer to draw the plans for the remodel. I have decided to get some input from my plumber before hiring a designer. My advice is that if you have a plumber that you trust -- start there to ask what is possible and reasonable in cost.

JuneKnow, Where can I find what actual legal requirements are? It’s definitely teeny tiny— just under 10 square feet 😬, but it’s next to stairs that I think we can borrow from to do a recessed and/or tiny sink (like pictured), and in a pinch we can bring the entrance forward a foot.

I know in most of the country a powder room that small probably seems unthinkable, but we lived in Manhattan for years and it was pretty common to see bathrooms that size in homes and restaurants. It’s not ideal, but better than having nothing on the floor.

Our bigger concern, though, is getting the plumbing to work because of its location in relation to existing pipes.

KristinPetro, thanks— I may give you a call!

Plan2Remodel, we would also have thought it was way too small a project for an architect, but it sounded like some sort of weird requirement for the permit. If anyone knows how to find out about that stuff, let me know! But yes, probably a good idea to start with a plumber either way!

Thanks! It seems like it will take some creativity (eg corner or wall-hung toilets, sink niche) but we might be able to do it by the skin of our teeth.

I hope that I don’t get my head bitten off for asking this, but can you all help me understand why it’s important to be up to code if we’re designing for our own home? If we’re willing to have a cramped powder room (and it’s really our only option), why is that under the regulation of the city? Sort of ranting, but also legitimately wondering what the risks are. Thanks!

Are you planning on getting permits which you really need when adding a bathroom? In which case it will need to be inspected and built to code. If you do not you may need to get the permits or if you ever decide to sell you may need to tear it out of it cannot be brought up to code at that time.

I would consider stealing space from your enormous living room to create a powder room on the ground floor. Where is the plumbing on the floor above? Is the only plumbing in the kitchen on the ground floor and in the space above the kitchen? In CA, an interior designer can create a plan to submit to the City for permits.

Thanks everyone! Sorry to be slow— wasn’t getting alerts.

Re the benefits of the permit, thanks for explaining. Am I understanding correctly that it’s not so much that there’s a safety issue if the space is a couple inches short of code, but it’s moreso that professionals willing to ignore these codes might also be likely to ignore other important ones?

Assuming we find a contractor we fully trust to do everything else competently and above board, and there are no safety issues that emerge, it sounds like the biggest risk is future buyers having a problem with it? Are there possible fines? I’m normally a rule follower and would 100% want to do everything by the books and above board if in any way possible, but this project also feels pretty essential for our quality of life in our home and I would hate to see it fully taken off the table over a couple of inches.

I guess for us it’s a matter of thinking through whether we’re willing to take a calculated risk if we plan to live in the home for 30+ years. We will likely be able to do a more extensive and costly addition including a bathroom 10+ years down the road, but thats too long to do without considering we have very young children and elderly parents who are not having an easy time getting upstairs.

plan2remodel, I’ve thought about that too and worth considering, but I think it would be tricky because of the placement of the fireplace, windows, and doorways in the room. Was there a specific area you were thinking we could borrow from?

The water hookups are in the kitchen and then our upstairs bathroom is above the “front” entryway (which is actually on the side of the house). Fwiw, even though the kitchen is tiny, the wall that it shares with the closet currently has deep pantry cabinets that we could probably do without in a pinch. I know that the previous owners considered turning the entry way into a bathroom and then creating a new entrance off the sunroom, but that seemed like a bigger project than we’re able to do at this point.

Thanks again everyone for your input, and, if you have any recs of designers, architects, or GCs in Chicago who would be a good fit for a project like this, please let me know!

The only way I could see this working is to bring the closet wall forward so the space is at least 48 inches deep. Then you could use a toilet up to 26.5 inches deep and still have the required 21 inches of front clearance. Then you could recess the sink into the side wall of the room to gain a few inches there so you could maintain a clear floor space of 21 inches in front of the toilet at 30 inches wide. The toilet and sink can share the same clear floor space.
It will take a very good contractor with a talented carpenter to move that wall forward, close in a part of the open staircase, then redo the railing and spindles. If done well, the door would look like it was an original coat closet and the stair railing will not be noticeably different. It won't be easy but I think it is possible if you are willing to move the wall.

I understand why having a powder room on the first floor is really desirable. I grew up in a neighborhood with old Victorian and Queen Ann era homes and almost all of them had a bathroom located off the kitchen which I imagine must have been a pantry or closet at some point.

I recently remodeled and my designer was extremely knowledgable about Code and construction and what was feasible and what was legal. I would suggest you find someone in Chicago and hire them to see if the project is feasible; where it could be located, costs etc. You would have to pay them for their expertise but you would have definitive knowledge of whether you can move forward as well as possible creative solutions to get what you want and need.

I've done this job in my 1902 Colonial Revival in Toledo, Ohio's Old West End years ago. I had a ice room (the ice man would open a small door and deliver ice) between the kitchen and dining room. Fortunately the main stack was nearby.

Get an experienced plumber who has done this job previously and has a good relationship with inspection please.

You might try going to the Faucet Shop on Elston and hope they might be able to recommend someone. Several years ago, a guy who did work for me took some of my vintage plumbing parts in there and they were quite helpful. Of course, we didn't like what they had to say (sorry, that isn't being made anymore) but they knew their subject matter and understood the issues.

There are probably a few old house plumbers who keep that phone number in their list of contacts. Perhaps you could get a referral for someone from there. Good luck with finding that right person!

Assuming we find a contractor we fully trust to do everything else competently and above board, and there are no safety issues that emerge

If only bad contractors came with a label... Unfortunately, you often cannot be 100% sure a contractor is competent until the end of a project. At the very least, signally up front that you will only work with a permit (whether or not you actually get one) will weed out the ones that know they cannot comply with one.

Sometimes you don't even know a bad contractor at the end of the job. Most of the midrange guys do decent work that looks OK when they finish the job. The real test is how does the work look after 5 to 10 years. I have seen several so called good jobs that don't age well...ask anyone who has found water damage from a leaking shower after the warranty is ling since finished.

I know many Chicago homeowners who have skirted permitting for interior remodels rather than get bogged down in the system. Of course I wouldn't recommend it. Two issues: if you have a problem with one of the trades that requires legal action, you could be in a bind. Other issue is your tax assessment says 3bed/2bath, when you sell you will market 3bed/2.5bath. Potential buyers will see the discrepancy and ask or research for permit, then want credit or walk because they are unsure of its compliance or what other work you've done under the covers by unqualified laborers.

Thanks, everyone. This is super helpful.

We’ve been crunching the numbers and it was looking like we’d be 1-2 inches short on the clearance in front of the toilet, but I think I may have found a toilet with a profile that can work assuming we can recess the sink.

Lyndee Lee, thanks for that idea. We had considered bringing forward the closet entrance, but I hadn’t thought about it being possible to preserve the original woodwork and overall appearance. That’s a great idea because a major reason we’re so set on using this closet is I really would like to preserve the original footprint and bones of the house without cutting up rooms or adding an addition, and sadly we don’t have an ice room, butler closet, or otherwise appropriate space like others have mentioned as options.

Do any of you have experience with a “self-contained” or macerating toilet? It sounds like something like this might be a good option for us if the plumbing proves as complicated as I suspect it will.

Thanks everyone!

Folks, one last question about all this— Is there a reason I’m not thinking about (code or logistics) that would make it impossible to do a sink within a recessed niche in the wall? I can’t find a single picture of examples online. Thanks for all of your help and expertise!

The applicable code requires 80 inches of headroom for the fixture. However, the interpretation may vary. The only time I had this particular issue was under a slanted ceiling where a dormer met a mansard roof. Our inspector said we needed the headroom at the front of the fixture where the user would be standing. He also allowed us to place it where the side wall slant cut slightly into the headroom at the outside edge of the 30 inch required width. It was a close fit but looked good and passed inspection.

The only photos I have seen were a partially recessed sink which would take care of the headroom at the fixture requirements, according to my local area's interpretation of the rules. City of Chicago is famous for having building inspectors whose interpretations may be favorable in certain circumstances. Your experienced old house plumber is going to have a much better idea of how far he can push the issue before running into trouble than any of us.

Do you have a finished basement or is the plumbing accessible underneath?

Thanks Lyndee Lee. So you’re saying the headroom has to be directly over the sink, as opposed to directly in front of it? What I was imagining is basically a rectangular niche cutout with the sink fully within it, but I guess we could extend the niche all the way up to the ceiling if needed.

Our basement is unfinished, so hopefully that’s one thing in our favor.

Lyndee Lee, since it sounds like you’re in/near Chicago, any experience with American Vintage Home? We’ve worked with a plumber from there and chatted with him a bit about this and he personally didn’t seem to have the kind of expertise we needed, but maybe we can chat more with them. That’s also a great idea about the Faucet Shop. We’ve been aware of it, but have never been there. Thanks for your help!

I don't know the answer about headroom but your plumber should know. In my case, it was interpreted to mean at the front of the fixture.
I am not familiar with American Vintage Home as they are a North Shore company. I am out in vintage house territory in Kane County. Right now, I am redoing a bathroom in an early 1900s four square. Unlike your house, this one had a basement bath so plumbing was there just needs lots of work to bring it up to modern standard.
Post a picture of your closet and staircase area so we can see if any other options might be available.

Have you considered venting for this tiny bathroom? That is, vent for exhaust fan and plumbing vent. With under 10 square feet, I think you can fit a wall-mounted toilet and a large bottle of hand sanitizer.

If you plan to stay in this home for 5-10 plus years and do not want to alter the existing structure, consider waiting until you are ready for an addition, such as an extra bedroom along with a 3/4 bathroom and laundry room. It is convenient to have an extra shower on the ground floor. I recommend watching HGTV "Love it or List It" as well as a TV series on Tiny Houses.