Kitchen plumbing

24 days ago

need ideas renovating my kitchen and can’t run water pipe for dishwashersink through 2x4 because a multiple structural beam is blocking the passage and contractor doesnt want to weaken it for obvious reasons. but now he wants to run the pipe through the cabinets or under the floor. not happy

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Jake The Wonderdog

24 days ago

last modified: 24 days ago

So... I have larger questions about this:

How was this not an issue from the start? If you have a 2x4 structural wall (any outside wall) you aren't going to make a horizontal run of drain pipe through more than a stud... possibly 2. Definitely not through the jack and king studs if there's a door or window (and sinks often go under a window) because it weakens that too much. This is 100% foreseeable.

Through the floor (perhaps into the wall and through the bottom plate) is fine as long as there's a basement or crawl space.

But the other issue is the venting. How is this venting? My guess is that venting wasn't considered. I can't see the entire distance, but I think you are already too far from the old vent. And are what we are seeing the intended slope? Look, the drain and venting needs to be figured out by someone who knows what they are doing.

These kinds of issues need to be sorted on paper - way before anything gets torn out. There are enough surprises when you open a wall, and obvious ones that you could foresee shouldn't be one of them. This is one of the ways that jobs go bad... that things aren't planned out and then significant changes need to happen mid-project. The customer starts getting pissed, and suddenly the relationship goes sour. It's a lot better to be able to say up-front, "we can't move that sink there without doing x, y, z" and manage expectations than it is to do it on the back-end.

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Comments (11)

PRO
Minardi
24 days ago
Is the DW not right net to the sink? Because it drains into the garbage disposal or a DW stubout on the sink, above the P trap. It MUST be above a P trap, to prevent backflow.
R A
Original Author
24 days ago
Dish washer is on the left of sink but i dont have a garbage disposalal

this is new loacation for sink but i really dont want this white pipe going my cabinets for me to have sink place there
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Hi Anna: A possible solution for your triple sink is 2 completely separate pipes, traps, and faucets. Each DW could be connected to different pipes and would not back up into the wrong sink. 2 faucets will give you better separation and you won't need an extra-long faucet that can reach all three bowls. The treif garbage disposal in its own small basin will have to connect up with one of sink pipes, but that could occur lower than the DW connection and the water from a disposal backup is not normally hot enough to treif up the sinks. Have you considered putting 2 single sinks next to each other with a vertical divider rising several inches above the counter in between? You could put a garbage disposal in each sink and have everything separate while using about the same amount of space as a triple sink. Similarly, if your layout permits,you could separate 2 sinks just enough to deal with splashover. With an 18" or 24" separation, you could put one of the DW's between the sinks. Other posters have already noted the desirability of using metal sinks in a kosher kitchen. B'Hatzlacha, Ellene
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your thinking is about lowering the risk of cross-contamination to a certain threshold, deemed right. It is impossible to reduce the risk to Absolute Zero and any discussion of that leads to ludicrous scenarios, never likely, but still conceivable. The threshold is one that you will call "good" or that a kashrut inspector will call good, if he (or she) gets into that level of the building process. There are many ways to achieve what you seek, all leaving some possibility open that water sullied with compound A will come up the drain of compound B sink. If Even if a separate P trap were to be installed on all five drains (2 DW drains, 3 sink drains) it is conceivable (but almost never going to happen). Perhaps you'll consider a "proper for kashrut" preventative operation like closing the strainer on the appropriate sink, and cleaning it if you see the seal was not made. Since sink drains can be deemed to be dirty, perhaps you will decide to use grids on the sink bottom. Some sinks have grids suspended in space above the sink bottom (they rest on ledges on the side walls, e.g. Franke sinks like the Orca, and e.g.2. you can solder a ledge on a stainless steel sink), and this may be deemed one step closer to fine. If your sole concern is about dirty water when it is hot warm or lukewarm, then lengthening the drain can resolve that single concern. How you do it will depend on your licensed and insured Master Plumber and his professional decisions given your space and your DWV constraints (your plumbing's venting, your DFU's, and your pipe diameters downstream of the five drains). Only he (or she) knows for sure. Not a repair plumber who may often be called upon to work on P traps and drains. HTH -david
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Our remodel didn't require moving of the sink plumbing so we bought an 8 foot counterop from lowes (in their reduced priced section because it was damaged) for $20 bucks! We took our old stainless steel sink and traced a cut out of it in this countertop and took a jig saw and cut out the pattern. We nailed a 2x4 to the wall where we wanted the back of the counter and set it there and took drywall screws and attached it. Then we took more 2x4s and used them as legs to support the counter then dropped the sink in and hooked up the old faucet. We didn't have a KD or a GC so we were lining up our own contractors and there was down-time between jobs so this counter came in very handy. We also built a makeshift island out of 4x8 plywood (cut to our future countertop size of 3x6) and used 2x4 legs to support it and used 2x4s for support and stability underneath of it. We placed in in various locations (adjusting it by inches)to get use to it and it's placement before cabinet install, just in case we wanted to allow more space between aisles. Here is a photo of both...
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In most cases the plumbing supply lines for the kitchen and bath sinks are identical size (probably 1/2"), and the entire house has the same water pressure. There is no more stress on the ones in the kitchen than on the ones in the bath. Start out by turning off the water in the house and installing new 1/4 turn shutoffs on the lines coming out of the wall under the sink (shuts off water with only a 1/4 turn). You can solder them on, or they also sell valves that have a compression fitting for copper pipe. This article has a simple explanation. http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/valves/how-to-replace-a-shutoff-valve/view-all . If you have a copper pipe coming out of the wall, SharkBite also sells a shutoff valve that requires no tools. http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Chrome-Plated-Brass-Push-to-Connect-x-3-8-in-O-D-Compression-Quarter-Turn-Angle-Stop-Valve-23036-0000LF/202270612 Pictures in the article above show shutoffs with a compression fitting on top to connect the supply line to the sink. Instead of using a compression fitting and metal pipe I would use braided flexible supply lines that thread on in place of the compression fitting. One like this should work. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-3-8-in-O-D-x-1-2-in-IPS-x-12-in-Faucet-Supply-Line-Braided-Stainless-Steel-7223-12-38-2/203082011 Bruce
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HU-48094157
24 days ago
Get a better plumber.
klem1
24 days ago
Don't want a white pipe running your cabinets ,paint it blue.
badgergal
24 days ago
If you have room, pull you cabinets forward and install them in front of that pipe. Your countertop will have to be deeper to cover the gap between the cabinets and the wall but you will appreciate the extra depth. We had to do that once to accomadate a gas pipe and it was nice to have the countertop be 2" deeper. In our case we had to have a cabinet end panel made 26" instead of 24 to also cover the gap.
PRO
Zumi
24 days ago
This was self designed disaster and no pros were involved prior or current.
Jake The Wonderdog
24 days ago
last modified: 24 days ago
@zumi

Yeah, that's my thinking also. Too often homeowners want to "play GC and designer" for a job, either because they don't know any better or because they think they can save a few bucks. A decent GC can often do a passable job on a simple kitchen remodel if they don't get into high-end finishes and such, but a designer makes a huge difference. A homeowner who has seen it done on TV and thinks that's they can run a job is a slow-motion train wreck waiting to happen.

Homeowners don't know what they don't know. However, the contractor doing the work should. They are in a position to know when a homeowner intends, either knowingly or without realizing, to take on the GC role. Best to clarify the roles and responsibilities up front and get agreement, or walk away and not take the job.

I've made a similar comment on here before about homeowners assuming the role of GC - until something goes wrong - and then then it's all the contractor's responsibility.
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
23 days ago
RA:

Your contractor is correct as is badgergal. I've had to pull cabinets forward to accommodate drain lines. The deeper countertops are a feature, not a bug.
Jake The Wonderdog
23 days ago
I'd also look into just having some of those cabinets built 2 in shallower. Most cabinets are being built to order anyway. It wouldn't be all of the cabinets, just those.
R A
Original Author
13 days ago
Thank everyone for your comments.

Kitchen plumbing

Jake The Wonderdog

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Minardi

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HU-48094157

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