I've done this for years. :-)

I have my Profusion Zinnia started here in PA because it benefits from a hawklike eagle eye for two weeks before going into the cellar. Most of my plants won't start until March 1st to 5th, with a hardening off date of April 28th or so. I grow a lot of the same things you do. So we're on the same schedule, roughly (you're closer to the ocean, I'm further south but higher up).

Morning glories must be started in place in the garden, or at least in my experience, they transplant very poorly. Although please, if anybody has any good tips, let me know! I've tried deep, large cups, long adjustment times, short times in the cups, nothing works. Maybe one in ten makes the transfer.

Nasturtium are something people argue about, but here's the trick. Don't flat-start these, it doesn't work--use cups, like Dixie cups, at least 8 ounces, and plant one per cup (put a hole in the bottom for drainage). Start no more than 4 weeks early. When transplanting, carefully transplant the entire cup of dirt even if there are no roots in it, without disturbance. They hate being disturbed.

Alternately, simply treat as morning glories and plant in place in the garden, they'll be fine. Pre-soak for 8 hours or so before planting to awaken the seed.

By celosta, do you mean celosia? If so, flat start because they need heat to sprout and otherwise you won't see these bloom until July. BTDT, but it's kind of a fun surprise. Plant 4-8 weeks before frost.

Dahlia are also fairly bulletproof, but I'm going to argue for including them in the flats. They need some development time, they're more warm-season, and again...those few extra weeks really help. I raise Figaro and Harlequin, plus a variety of larger dahlia that start in big pots. Small dahlia, like Figaro and Harlequin, really only need 4 weeks.

Zinnia, cosmos, blanket flower, alyssum and bachelor's button are all bulletproof. You can start them in your flats for earlier blossom or in the garden just after frost is over and they'll be just fine. Times vary, but cosmos are 3 weeks max before frost. Others are 4-8 weeks before frost.

I think you'll be happier starting the zinnia indoors earlier for a June-October bloom, however, so I might recommend that. Seriously, once started, they do not stop. Plant 4-8 weeks before frost.

In all cases, sow seed in the garden after all danger of frost is well-past. Most seeds won't sprout until soil temperatures are approaching 55-70 (species depending), so the wait may be longer than you think. I'd try to cycle as much through the flats as possible.

My Melampodium and Easter Egg plant (an eggplant), plus cleome and some celosia volunteer yearly, and sprout on all those is rather late. In most cases, well after I've already planted the yearly gardens, although some Melampodium might show against the edge of the house at that time where it's very warm.

Bloom times vary. Melampodium develop fast and bloom in late June to October as volunteers. Easter Egg plant "bloom" in August to October as volunteers but don't develop mature enough eggs to harvest in most cases for seed. Cleome bloom fast. Celosia are usually late July from volunteers.

Oh my gosh thank you for such a detailed response!! I'm so thrilled to hear that you do this as well. Most of my searching on the internet has found that nearly everyone who starts plants indoors are planting vegetables.

So for the Nasturtium could I use the peat pots I have for the hollyhocks? The plan with the hollyhocks was to plant the whole pot because they dont like being transplanted either. But I didnt know nasturtium wasnt a fan either!

Yes, celosia! Good to know - heat mats it is!

I bought "dinner plate" dahlia seeds, so I'm not exactly sure when to start but I was debating on if I should wait or do them in flats. I really am excited for the dahlias so I figured I'd probably go for flats bc I'd like the extra growing time so they turn out beautiful.

So it looks like this week I will start alyssum, Zinnias and Dahlias. And wait a bit on the cosmos and nasturtiums and then maybe direct sow whatever I dont have room for in the flats.

I'm a little confused though, when you say cycle through the flats as much as possible do you mean start other seedlings in the greenhouse once the ones in there now get moved outside? If so which plants would work well for round 2? Since you're in the same area you're probably also going to be moving plants outside/hardening off in mid to late april. If I were to start more plants indoors in april would they have enough time to grow large enough this season. Personally I dont see why they wouldn't because they tell you to direct sow after the danger of frost is past and I feel like they'd grow faster and be better protected in my little greenhouse than they would outside.

I'd go ahead and direct sow the cosmos, nasturtiums and alyssum. All will self-sow freely in the garden once established and I have found they do just as well planted from seed directly where you plan to grow them.

Don't use peat pots. They sound great, but really don't work as well as they sound.

I've abused nasturtiums, let them overgrow and then put them in hanging planters. Carefully done a few seeds in bigger pots. And direct seeded them, got some that self-sow in some spots now too.

Okay! I'm pretty excited for cosmos so I was going to do them in trays just so I could start them but it sounds like they grow fast enough. As for alyssum, from what I've seen it looks like they have a pretty long growing period so I'm a little nervous to wait to self sow.

And it sounds like people have trouble getting nasturtium to grow when starting indoors so maybe I'll wait on that.

What's wrong with peat pots? I have hollyhocks in peat pots because I heard they dont love to be transplanted. Do the pots not break down well? If not cant I just cut the pot away or at the very least cut the bottom off? I really want to get my hollyhocks well established, so any advice is welcome!

A lot of people find peat pots don't break down well, even with the bottom torn off. And if you leave any of it exposed on top, it dries out and can wick out of the buried part.

Can I just cut it away then? I just read that hollyhocks dont like being transplanted but wanted to start them from seed anyways. Idk how to make the transition as smooth as possible for my plants but especially my hollyhocks. But at least I can cut through peat pots where I find it's harder to get plants out of plastic containers

Yeah, dump the peat pots. Get a paper cup of some sort (I fell into 2,000 free Dixie cups some years ago; I use them as my painter's water cups, planting cups, resin cups...) If you do use the peat pots, put a hole in the bottom (if there isn't one there already) and treat the pot as a pot; don't plant the pot itself, remove the soil from the pot and discard the pot after this planting season.

Self-sowing in Northeast winters is a bit touch-and-go depending on the species. You'll have to wait and see what likes your environment. Cosmos? Cosmos almost certainly won't but sometimes surprises you. Zinnia and marigold, never. Nasturtium shouldn't have a problem surviving. I only keep Melampodium in the most protected spots near the house, but that's more than enough. This year? I may be reliant on my seed bank, which is fine. I'm accounting for that. I always collect thousands of seeds anyway. Surprisingly, ageratum never self-seeds, but eggplant does very freely. Cleome is treated like a weed on this property.

Your mileage is going to vary.

And don't forget, as the season winds down, you can collect seed from a lot of what you have and, like I do, envelope store it for next year. Much won't breed true. Some things do. Or near enough. Or sometimes better (I've been breeding things for years until they no longer look anything like their 20-times-great-grandparents, but rather, what I want them to look like).

"But I didnt know nasturtium wasnt a fan either!"

Fifty-fifty. If you go with minimal disturbance, it's fine, and hollyhock, too, and get it in before taproots are developed past the capacity of the pot to hold them. Post that, you can't plant or transplant either plant. So start these quite late, with 2-3 weeks to go before moving outdoors, in deeper pots (that's why I like the 16-oz Dixie coffee cup; it's about 8 inches tall and won't fall apart in 3 weeks).

"I bought "dinner plate" dahlia seeds, so I'm not exactly sure when to start but I was debating on if I should wait or do them in flats. I really am excited for the dahlias so I figured I'd probably go for flats bc I'd like the extra growing time so they turn out beautiful."

Danger, Will Robinson. (No, I just like old TV). Those will get enormous. Fast. Either plant very late, or plant, again, in large cups. Smaller dahlia, like the 12" Harlequin I mentioned, start easily in flats and don't overgrow quickly. Most dinnerplate seeds are for 3-5' plants and grow fast-fast once the engines get lit.

These might be better started in the garden...but also might not produce blossoms their first year if you do that.

"I'm a little confused though, when you say cycle through the flats as much as possible do you mean start other seedlings in the greenhouse once the ones in there now get moved outside? If so which plants would work well for round 2?"

Exactly. I might divide fast-developing things into two rounds--dahlia, zinnia, and celosia, particularly. Those are things where your soil is cooler than optimal in May for sprouting without assistance and tricks (you could use cloches to accelerate this but...ugly and tedious).

"Since you're in the same area you're probably also going to be moving plants outside/hardening off in mid to late april."

I keep a digital journal. Der Tag is usually April 25th-May 1st, varying by when I feel I won't be carting them back in too often (they inhabit a shady area of the north gardens where I steadily pull them out day by day into a tad more sun). On average, there is 1 night a year they come back into the kitchen because I fear frost. :-)

I could tent them, but that requires time, effort, and worry. The kitchen is a steady 68 degrees.

"If I were to start more plants indoors in april would they have enough time to grow large enough this season. Personally I dont see why they wouldn't because they tell you to direct sow after the danger of frost is past and I feel like they'd grow faster and be better protected in my little greenhouse than they would outside."

They'll be fine, they can grow just fine in the greenhouse or the garden, and they do very well. The moment they sprout in the greenhouse they can start hardening off and working with full sunlight and May weather (although I'd put them back in if heavy rain or unusual cold or warmth is expected). Been there, done that, seeded as late as June in flats due to losses.

That was where last year's magenta-lilac zinnia came from.

"Self-sowing in Northeast winters is a bit touch-and-go depending on the species. You'll have to wait and see what likes your environment. Cosmos? Cosmos almost certainly won't but sometimes surprises you."

Then the northeast must be the only place on the planet where they don't :-) In fact, some sources state that they self sow so freely that they can be come a weedy nuisance if not thinned and edited.

Perhaps they just do not like the growing conditions in morpheuspa's garden.

Thank you for all the advice!

Okay so I wont plant the peat pots, good to know!

I am afraid I may have lost a few perennials over this winter since February has been so cold and I have very little hope of things self sowing. I planted a bunch of gladiolus last year and while I planted them 8 inches deep and mulched... I'm not sure if they will come back since it's been so cold. Fingers crossed that I have some perennials that I planted last year return.

So if any volunteer pops up it will be a happy surprise! I did collect some seeds from last year, mostly snapdragons and a few columbines, both which probably wont breed true but I'm excited to see what I get! I would have saved way more seeds if I knew I was going to get an indoor greenhouse!! I will be saving seeds this season for sure!

Okay so here's what I'm thinking so far --

Round 2 plants or 3 or 4 weeks before last frost --

Dahlias
Zinnias
Cosmos
Celosia

Plant this week --

tall White sweet alyssum
Bachelor's button
Blanket flower

Plant outside --

Nasturtium

Morning Glory

I also have some extra seeds from stuff I've already planted that I could grow more of... So I have 2 trays left right now... either I could fill them all this week and next and then just hold off on planting anything else until stuff starts moving out. OR I could use one tray now and start some of the faster growing stuff when it's only like 3 to 4 weeks before the last frost.... choices...... I mean I could just fill the trays with plants I've already planted. I'm not super excited about blanket flower but bachelors button looks cool in pictures.

Funny you say that gardengal. My mom got a cosmo volunteer once from the neighbors for a season. After that it disappeared and she could never get any to come back. It's actually because we can never get them to come back that I'm planting them! Also they are extremely hard to find in any nursery! I looked all last year and never found them anywhere. So when I found seeds I snatched up a bunch.

Last year I had a whole bunch of snapdragons and I really loved them so I'm planning on planting a bunch more, but if any reseed I would be ecstatic!

I planted 3 columbine last year and one died but I hope the other two come back! I love columbine! So dainty and unique looking! I would be sad to lose them.

I'm not sure those glads will come back. Our puppy had some fun digging in that area... so that didnt help. Although she didnt dig where every one was planted, but she certainly didnt help my chances!

I love your attitude! You're right I should totally fill the flats! I had marigolds and dahlias last summer and when everything else looked drab they were still blooming beautifully.

I think I'll fill the two flats with some stuff I've already got going and a few faster growing plants. Then in round 2 I'll go nuts on the faster plants. Honestly I feel like space isnt going to be a huge issue, but I guess we will see! I have 8 flats, so a little less than you. My greenhouse has room for 2 trays per shelf easily and 4 shelves. I can fit some things in bigger pots on the sides too.

This is my first year starting from seed and I have been having a blast so far. I just want to plant all the things! And it's so much cheaper than buying established plants at the nursery. I'd love to see some photos of your gardens last year and your current set up and seedlings!

Oh, sure--this is the Sprouting Station (tm) (r). :-) The top is currently off that flat for some circulation, it'll go back on. The heating is under that, it keeps the seeds at around ten degrees over ambient, or right now, 80. The light is to allow up to about two weeks maximum up here, or enhancement lighting on winter plants if I need it (I've cobbled it in under the table). The top is just art stuff. I didn't move the easel out of the way so that's intruding to the right.

The spectra are rather complicated and completely arbitrary.

The downstairs growing rack in mid-April of last year. Each shelf has four 4' fluorescent lights, two warm white, two cool. That white thing on the second-highest shelf breaking the black line is a temperature/humidity sensor that transmits to my office upstairs (by implication, I can tell if the lights are on by the temperature). The cellar is heated and cooled with the rest of the house and doesn't go under sixty.

That topmost rack's lights do hang from the rafters. By this time in the year, the cups are outside in a flat and being transported from table to kitchen in the evenings when I get home or, last year, when I got around to it.

Houzz hates me if I put too many photos at once. I like all the colors. At once.

These include plenty of marigold, and to the far right, cosmos sulphureus, which has never successfully reseeded in more than fifteen years. That's also one of the most protected spots in the garden.

Ageratum, a very large weed.... :-) There's an ornamental eggplant to the right-center, too. Some dahlia, of course. And larger cosmos in there too.

Looking across, more marigold, zinnia, Black-Eyed Susans, a dog (Riley), eggplants, Salvia (those are home-bred), blue salvia (ditto), dahlia, yellow Melampodium...the list goes on.

Same day, other side of the garden looking the other way. I like to cluster colors here. Red zinnia with red salvia. I think I overdid it a bit and next year plan to break it up a bit. You can see I lost a major zinnia in that hole there.

I keep the front more tailored and less wild looking for a more-formal display. This is one of the four front beds. The eye candy up front are Profusion zinnias, a bushy zinnia that loves full sun, heat, and tolerates dry conditions very well, and non-stop blossoms from June through freeze. Yellow and orange perform beautifully; the reds are a little less strong, but do very well if cared for.

Your gardens are gorgeous!! So full and vibrant! I'm jealous! I only just got into seriously gardening last year so much of my summer was spent ripping out weeds and overgrown plants.

This is my set up! 4 shelves with 2 trays on each and lights. I have boxes to get the plants closer to the lights when needed. I've saved many empty boxes of different sizes for this.

Like I said, stuff was overgrown. I tore all of this out.

I planted some coleus around the edge and a foxglove next to the hydrangea after this photo was taken, but clearly you can see that there is lots of leftover space. This is my partial shade

This is the garden behind the deck beforehand (there is a giant bush in the corner that grows about 10 feet high after we cut it down every spring)

Some pictures of how it looked after the clean up and then the last photo was when things were blooming. Once again there is so much space that I didnt take advantage of!

The front garden was full of daylilies. Prime place for snakes!

I cleaned about half of it out and wound up with a really pretty set up. Here the only things that may come back are delphiniums and lilies. So much space!

Once upon a time this was a garden and it became a giant bed of weeds. So I had to pull all of this out!

It was a lot of work. Unfortunately I dont have a photo of the finished garden. This one was basically all annuals and then a veronica and a silvery perennial I cant remember the name of.

And then the rock garden, where I am battling chameleon, a ground cover that will not die.

I ripped out the front last year and planted a border of petunias. Of course the chameleon came back.

Morpheuspa -- after seeing your gardens I'm going to plant more zinnias and marigolds!!! So bushy and vibrant! Do you pinch them to encourage bushiness? Idk which plants to pinch and which ones not to! I've still got a lot of cleanup to do myself but I'm totally inspired after seeing how yours turned out!

I never bother pinching, it's fiddly. And I don't do fiddly when there's 2,000 square feet to be fiddly with--I just can't.

The pom-pom zinnias are Magellan, which don't require any special care to become bushy. I like the Scarlet, but almost any of the Magellan that I've tried have done this. Park's Pick (from Park's) have also always been winners for me.

Lilac was a new choice last year, and Purple is making an appearance as a test this year. I predict that, like Lilac, it will become a new permanent addition.

Marigolds, ditto. Again, it's a matter of cultivar choice. The ones I tend to find work best for me are Janie on the small side (yellow, primrose, and orange and tried and true, but again, I'm sure all the Janies are reliable). Inca II Yellow for the taller yellows, and Moonsong for orange. I've also used Park's Pick Orange and those have been almost identical (I suspect they actually are identical).

Those shrub zinnias are, again, Profusion, which are naturally shrubby. Double red, red, yellow, double yellow, orange, and flame are all stuff I've tried, and things that don't have "red" in the name are all very, very sturdy. Reds are less sturdy but do great with some extra care (I suspect reds are a bit overbred).

I did notice the...discussion...about your fish plant in the other thread, but thought there was a bit of over-reaction about it. I didn't chime in due to some personality differences I didn't particularly feel like dealing with (I brushed those off in this thread above, actually).

If you want my advice? Yes, it's going to be a bit of a multi-year battle; it was in my mother's garden. But it's not a cause for the hysterics shown. :-) You can get 90% of the way there by June this year, easily. Let the stuff come back fully and completely green up. Don't till. Spray with RoundUp (keep the dog out of the garden during that time period; cover with plastic if you want at that point). Most of it will die back in fourteen days. Most.

Don't till because remaining viable root scraps will re-grow and we don't want to spread them around. Just plant the bed if you want in annuals this year, stuff you don't mind losing a few of, or put pots on top of it for this year if you're really sensitive to losing plants. It's not likely to be that bad, but just in case.

Keep a hawk's eye for new plants. Either spot spray carefully or wear gloves and use a damp cloth to wipe Round Up on the leaves. That will kill them. It's really not that difficult to keep it under control and, if you do this every three to five days, the problem rapidly disappears. Those root scraps only have so much energy and they're going to rapidly expend it. Most will die at the first spraying, it's just that simple.

Mom's problem was 98% gone simply by waiting for the stuff to look green and healthy...then killing it. Then advising her to knock the stragglers all season long and doing it myself as I saw them. Once we decided to become predators, the species didn't last long.

I'm definitely a novice when it comes to gardening! For me it's been a lot of rebuilding and tons of learning. This is my first year starting from seed so I'm sure I'll find which ones I like best and which ones I won't try again. I wish I had a photo of last years garden with the rock in it that I basically started from scratch. (The one that was a giant bed of weeds) That's the one I planted all the marigolds and dahlias in and it was quite the show stopper! I haven't tried zinnias before so I'm very excited for those. I'm planning on trimming certain things up and pulling others completely. I'm going to have to learn a lot about pruning!

I had some petunias that got a little leggy last ear and didn't really know about pinching so I think I might pinch if things start to get leggy but for the most part let everything do it's thing. I guess we will see how the seeds I bought turn out.

As for chameleon... In my experience it's been really hard to battle but I'm definitely taking the approach of a predator. I'm planting there I don't care what anyone says. It's my garden, not their's. Sure, it will be a battle but I'm not going to not plant there just because of the chameleon! That would be far too depressing. I think I'm going to try and dig a bunch out early and then attack whatever grows with roundup and then continue to attack it all season. I'm not going to give up! I want the space. Idk if I believe that most will die right away, in my experience this plant doesn't die. I appreciate your advice because I really started to lose hope for that garden this year and the idea of not planting there is just plain depressing!!!

I have a lot of spring cleaning and clearing out to do and I'm so excited to start working the spaces I have. I'm actually worried that I don't have enough plants! I'm actually going to order more zinnias since I can do them as a second round in the greenhouse... Actually I have to look into what I want to do for round 2. I love how they look in other peoples gardens!! I'm so excited!! The next thing I've gotta get started on is figuring out where I'm going to out everything. How do you plan it all out? I'm thinking of getting graph paper and doing a scaled drawing. Idk!

Actually, I approve of your plan as an experimenter...never let anybody else tell you what to do. It may be more work, but if you feel like planting X, Y, and Z even with an existing problem, do it. You can work around it.

Zinnia certainly add a splash in any sunny to part shade garden, that's for sure! Their only real issue can be a bit of powdery mildew if planted too close, or in fall as they start to wind down. It's not a huge issue; give them enough space, spray with a mild anti-fungal (if you want--some of the natural ones are great), or ignore it.

Oh, petunias I'll pinch. Although I guess the real response is, "Petunias I'll hack back once or twice a year." They'll grow back much more compact after a two-week period of looking beheaded. Some of the newer varieties don't do the overgrow thing.

"How do you plan it all out? I'm thinking of getting graph paper and doing a scaled drawing. Idk!"

I...er, this kind of...well...I'm an artist in my spare time. I can just see what I want the way I see a new painting. But even so, I sketch new paintings on their canvases half the time.

Scaled drawings on graph paper are a perfect idea! You can also download programs that will do it, and I'm sure there are free ones. The free ones probably aren't that great, but might be good enough to get you started.

Google Earth can also get you the images of your back yard, already scaled, to start.

Oh goodness Amanda, your also the person with that dratted ground cover. I didn't realize.

I might suggest then that you try doing annuals in pots this year. Gets your foliage and color in the border, and keeps everything clear for of nixing the chameleon.

And I feel the fulva lillies dang it- the previous owners had a fondness for it. Keep your eyes open for the stuff for a couple years for missed bits springing anew.

I like the idea of pots, but I also like the idea of actually planting in that garden. I guess we will see how the fight with the chameleon goes!!

Day lilies were such a pain last year but we just basically flooded the garden and dug most of it out, they had taken over! I don't understand planting something like that if it winds up completely taking over! Last year most of the work was tearing things out. This year hopefully I have less of a struggle with all the gardens and can focus more on just battling chameleon!

I didnt know that I could get a scaled image from google earth! That should help when I'm trying to plan!! Last year when I bought plants I just placed the pots in the gardens to get an idea of what everything would look like. I've got some plans for where most of the bigger stuff is going at the very least!

I've been researching how to prune certain plants. Luckily things like Russian sage can be sized down considerably without killing the plant but some other plants I might tear out completely. Spring cleaning is going to be a lot of work!

I honestly feel that people are overreacting on the chameleon. Was it a tough kill? Yes. Did it require dedication? Yes. Constant vigilance looking for resprout? Yep. Did it require giving up the whole garden for the entire year? Certainly not, it just required picking around plants to spray it carefully.

Now that you've opened your mind to a bit of RoundUp occasionally (it's not wonderful stuff and I'd wear a mask when using it just to be sure, along with gloves, long pants, and a long-sleeved shirt). You can wipe daylilies that have gone insane the same way. Or dig them out if you prefer, but that can be very difficult with their fibrous root systems that can go rather deep.

I confess to doing this with Black-Eyed Susans. They simply go insane in my gardens, and seed freely everywhere. Without chemical control, the entire garden would be a monoculture in five years.

For the first year or three, you'll find you use the images and graphs. After that, you just know.

One thing I do is place taller things to the middle of the beds (because my beds are designed for viewing from both sides). And I have planned patterns when I start, but I'm also not at all afraid to break those patterns whenever I feel like. So the pattern may call for a patch of red, but I'll drop a single white flower in the middle of it just because.

It's funny that you also mentioned black eyed susans... I had to rip those out last year too! Yeah last year I ripped out Daylilies, Chameleon, black eyed Susan's and lily of the valley. Lily of the valley had some pretty deep roots and was a pain. And while black eyed Susan's were everywhere I didnt find them as hard to battle as other stuff.

I am very glad I posted on these forums because I've learned a lot about how to tackle the chameleon and about growing from seed. I have many more questions now that I'm going to be spring cleaning and hopefully I can continue to learn here!

Susans are not generally that tough for me to get out (a trowel and a few seconds, toss into the lawn, and there they go). But when you get ten thousand sprouts all at once. :-)

Lily of the valley can be resistant to almost everything...even Round Up at times depending on when you hit them (go too late and they're already dropping out, and with as waxy as the leaves are, sometimes abrading the leaf before spraying helps). Digging those out is difficult.

I've eliminated most of the really tough perennials from the garden, leaving only the ornamental (tall) grasses. While tough, those are pretty enough that I just deal with the difficulty of cutting them back and working with them yearly. Regrettably, it's just about that time again...

Yeah Lily of the Valley was a pain!! I dug them all out! This whole garden was lily of the valley!

It was a lot of work! I did it in like 2 days.

It was like 6 inch deep roots everywhere. It's mostly just foliage! Personally I dont see the point in planting them. Sure the tiny bells are pretty when they flower but they dont flower for long!

Heh, I love my lilly of the valley patch and look forward to that time of spring when I can pick them by the handfuls and bring them inside. Helps a lot that it's an island that's regularly mowed around to keep it almost contained. And it's habit chokes out everything else there so it's a nice plush patch. I regularly pluck it out of another bed 15 or so feet away where they tend to pop up now and again. I don't want them getting a foothold there where it would be a bane.

They're gorgeous. They're also invasive. I honestly believe they'd conquer Japan and destroy Tokyo like Godzilla if they had the ability.

My mother (the Black Thumb, her superpower) planted a stand of them at my childhood home. On a super-dry hill, in deep shade. Even there, they spread year by year, heading for the sunlight, biding their time.

I figure you have until 2050 to run for the Atlantic Ocean.

Idk why so many invasive plants wound up in these gardens! Ugh! I ripped all mine out and was extremely thorough with that garden so they wont be coming back anytime soon.

Basically we had a set up similar to yours @beesneeds they were in a self contained area and completely took over. But I wanted the space as it's pretty much the only partial shade area on the property that has an established bed.