I would probably put a galley kitchen in this property. Looking at plan 4: Use the outside sink wall and place fridge and range/hood there. the opposite run would be about same depth as island and comes off wall where fridge and pantry are. the sink is removed from outside wall and placed on opposite run. the possibility of overhang is there ..you have 8 or 9 feet of length and maybe more if you want to extend this inside run furthur toward living room. You can have deeper counter where room is avail for stools then if you want to keep this run going toward living room you can reduce depth if need and plenty of drawers on kitchen side for storage. Dont know how much storage you need. I'd probably start w 9 foot run and 3 seated areas and work off that initially. What I really would do is add window to that right long outside wall of the home. Not sure if living room /kitchen or a combination of both to bring in more light. it is needed. Is the spot where door will be removed a good option for window instead? Do not care for plans 1 to 3 . too big /sprawling.. Plan4 but turned into galley. if you dont want that....make North/South island longer/ along w outside window wall only.... split walkway around island by removing the stuff on bottom wall of the L to do this. but I think galley would be better. Good Luck w your home. make certain before removal of front entry but do understand what you are getting at to some degree.

Welcome to the Kitchens Forum Loreleicurtin!

You have an interesting project. I won't comment on whether it's a good idea to eliminate the front entry, I'll let others discuss that. I do understand why you want to do it, though.

Could you please repost your layout with labels showing the actual dimensions (i.e., a fully-measured layout)? Box counting is very imprecise and can lead to major differences from actuals, and those differences can be deal breakers for designs. It's especially difficult when 1 box equals 1 foot b/c I doubt few, if any measurement is exactly x feet; I'm sure most measurements are more like x feet y inches and trying to estimate partial feet will be mostly a WAG and will likely be different for each person.

From the Featured Answer of the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread:

By "fully-measured", we mean a layout with the widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway labeled. See a sample below. If something cannot be moved or changed, label it precisely on your layout (see post in sample) and tell us why it cannot be moved/changed -- we may have some ideas for you.

...please be sure all measurements are labeled. (Note: Computer generated layouts often lack key measurements and, sometimes, measure to/from things like the middle of a wall or the middle of a window. Neither are useful. Measure & label each item and the distances between each item.)

Is it just you and your partner or do you have children as well (or plan them in the future)?

I assume standard appliance sizes:

• 30" range
• 36" hood (not an OTR MW please! They're lousy hoods and mediocre MWs.)
• 36" counter-depth refrigerator
• 24" DW
• MW -- various options: hanging from an upper cabinet, on the counter, in an alcove in a tall cabinet, a MW drawer under the counter

Regarding keeping the cabinets...Are they actual separate cabinet boxes or are they built-in place cabinets? If built-in place, you probably will not be able to save them. Even if you could, are they functional? Do they at least have roll out tray shelves (ROTS) in the base cabinets or do they have stationary shelves? If stationary, are they adjustable or are they fixed? Do the drawer glides still working smoothly? Are they actual glides or are the drawers wood-on-wood?

Honestly? I would replace them. Unless you hire a professional to do the job, I think trying to strip and repaint them yourselves will put you right back where you are now in a couple of years (or sooner) -- chipping, etc. Hiring a pro to fix them up and do a lasting job will probably cost close to as much as you would pay for IKEA cabinets, if not more. IKEA cabinets are excellent basic cabinets with some standard features that are usually only found in higher-end cabinet lines (e.g., soft-close drawers). You would also get cabinets that are more functional than I suspect your current ones are -- including more drawers!

Where I live you need both entries but sometimes a patio door can stand in for one. Side entries are a bit of a PITA to design around on the exterior but can be done.What you need to do is post all the mesurements clearly marked on your drawings for sure I do Ikea kitchens a lot and IMO still the best bang for your buck. #1 no OTR MW , a#2 all possible base cabinets should be drawers, #3 all flooring should be the same if at all possible. After that we need a lot of info as to size of family, how you cook The cabinets are probaly well made but outdated as far as good storage nad to have them redone properly will cost more than new . IMO a better layout will require new cabinets .So all the mesurements please .I would also like to see the exterior of the house

Do you want an open layout? Or is that just something that you believe is generally desirable because others want it?

I think a couple of your floor plans have good ideas but I suggest thinking about what your floor plan goals are first. As suggested above I would plan to divorce your range and microwave, and likely place your microwave close to your fridge since most things going in the microwave come out of the fridge or freezer. It seems you have a good space to work with and a lot of ability to diy it—I hope your project comes along well for you!!

While measurements are definitely needed to give you concrete advice, it so happens that I posted recently for help with my kitchen, which has very similar issues (including a chimney in the same spot!). Here's the thread, in case any of the ideas in it can help you: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6019643/thinking-seriously-about-a-kitchen-remodel-layout-advice-needed

That said, at first glance your layout made me think that if you eliminate the stairs and move the front entrance as far to the left as possible, a large L plus island or peninsula might work well for you. I would not open the wall between living and kitchen (I am not a huge fan of open floor plans in general). Instead think about putting your fridge next to the chimney, sink under the window and range as far away from the sink on that long wall as possible. Your island or peninsula is then a large, uninterrupted workspace.

Rather than re-route the stairs and eliminate the front door, can you push the kitchen into the existing LR, and move the window? The LR would become the DR, and existing DR would become the LR. Sorry, I know you just repainted the exterior. : (

Edited to change chimney.

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all the feedback so far! I already have more ideas. I spent some good quality time with my tape measure his morning, so here is an updated drawing with measurements. Hopefully this is the right way to do this, please let me know if I missed anything!

To answer some questions: it is just me and my partner and several pets that are always underfoot. We will probably only be in this house for about 3 years or so depending on my job. Because of this, I’m not really thinking about these renovations as creating my dream home, but trying to keep more of a flip mindset. It’s more important to me that the house is broadly appealing in a few years when we go to sell it. The layout of the house (1 bedroom 1 bath upstairs, 2 bedrooms 1 bath in basement, large lot) makes me think the most likely buyers will be a family with older kids, or a couple wanting some extra space. That being said, we cook almost 100% of our meals so we would like to make it functional for us as well!

Regarding the exterior door: I totally agree that having the main door to the house on the side is a major pain. Because it is a split level (or raised ranch? I’m not sure of the distinctions to be honest) any exterior door is going to require interior stairs to get up onto the main level of the home, or down into the basement. The current front door really is awful- the door itself is smaller than a standard door ( it’s about mobile home sized) and the landing is only a few feet square. The basement floor plan is also terrible, there is an abundance of wasted space, so removing these stairs would give the house a real second living area/family room (right now our tv is in one of the spare bedrooms). I included a rough layout of the basement so you can see how much it would be improved. Our neighbors told us that for the last 20 years, the previous owners put their garbage and recycling bins in front of the front door to block it so that it wouldn’t be used. I added some photos to my first post, but here are some current photos of the exterior. The yellow shed on the side of the house is actually a greenhouse/chicken coop, which we are currently weighing fixing up or tearing down. Because this is a rural area I think it might actually be appealing for a lot of buyers if it wasn’t such an eyesore. We have painted the exterior, stripped and refinished the deck, and replaced the side door. Our plan would be to try to use some creative landscaping to steer traffic to the side door, and place the house numbers on that side.

More kitchen details:

As @Buehl suspected, the cabinets are built in place. I think they would probably be the last thing standing in a tornado, but the paint job is terrible and with the failing hardware, I think you are right that Ikea cabinets are the way to go vs. resurfacing or trying to salvage what we have. It just seems a waste since they are so solid! We may try to reuse them in the laundry room or garage. From what I can tell, IKEA seems to be the best budget cabinet option, especially because we can do the assembly and install ourselves.

Currently we have a 30 inch range, 24 inch dishwasher, and 30 inch refrigerator, but would like to configure the new kitchen for a 36 inch counter depth refrigerator. I didn’t realize OTR microwaves were so widely disliked! I mostly included it because we ended up buying one 80% off from Lowe’s because there wasn’t one in the house when we moved in. I would definitely consider including it in a cabinet and getting a budget hood vent instead.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I will play around with the ideas of extending the kitchen part way into the living room, or trying for more of a more galley-style vs the u-shape I thought was obvious. Looking forward to more suggestion!

The new photos and measurements are very helpful. I understand now why you can't really just move the entrance in the kitchen, but is there a reason that the side entrance in the addition couldn't be moved to the front of the addition (or an additional door added to the front)? It would mean changing the windows, but that's not the end of the world.

Anyway, if you do completely eliminate the entrance and stairs in the kitchen, you will have a ton of room - you could do a large L plus large island layout (which would give you lots of seating in the kitchen if that is important to you), or large U with smaller island if you want more cabinets/storage. Here are a few ideas, all of which have room for 42" aisles:

Plan 1 (leaves wall between living and kitchen intact, probably cheapest option):

Plan 2 (more storage and counterspace, plus open to LR):

Plan 3 (lots of storage, room for wall ovens, less island seating):

Also, in case this is more helpful, here is the current layout with all the cabinets, etc removed, and what the measurements should be if the stairway is removed.

@biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley) thank you so much!! These are super helpful. I’m wondering, is there a reason you put the fridge next to the chimney in plans 1 and 3? As opposed to leaving the range where it is and putting the fridge where you have the range? These are great!

Can you add a front door to the wall adjacent to the existing front door, so it is still located on the front porch?

@emilyam819 thanks for the suggestion! I really wish the addition on the front of the house was even just a foot deeper... as it is, if we moved the door to either the front or the opposite side from where it is now, there is only just enough room for the door to swing in without hitting the stairs. I worry it would be too crowded. It could potentially go to the very far left side of the front, so just around the corner from where it is now... something we might pursue in the future! My partner might kill me, we only just replaced the door!

Left side of the front sounds good, but that can wait. You have lots of options for the kitchen without those stairs.

Is your driveway on the left or right side of the house? If the driveway is on the left, I’m very much not bothered by the “front” door being around the corner on the side, myself.

@loreleicurtin Yes, I moved the range away from the chimney for two reasons - first, having the cooktop next to a solid wall is a no-no (no elbow room, can't turn your pot handles to that side, etc.), and secondly, the ideal order of appliances is ice-water-stone-fire as you work your way around the L or U, so you want fridge-sink-work surface-range if possible.

Thanks @biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)!

@Muriel Thompson the driveway goes straight up to the addition, and then takes a hard left to the detached garage. You can’t really see the door from the driveway, sometimes delivery people come up onto the deck because they don’t realize the door is even there. We’re going to try to come up with something clever in the spring to make the entryway a bit more obvious... maybe some path lights and a strategically placed planter or bench.

Since you already have the concrete in place, can you do a 2ft deep bump-out on the front, following the existing roof lines? You could keep the side door, and add access to the porch on the other side. Please excuse the awkward photo-shop skills.

Is there access to the shed from inside?

Hi @mama goose_gw zn6OH, that looks awesome! The window on the right (where the door used to be) wouldn't quite work because the main floor of the house is raised, so a window would need to be right where the small section of roof is. I really like the bump-out idea. Moving the front door might be something we consider in the future if we end up staying in the house longer-term.

As for the shed, there is no access from the inside... it's a bit awkward, the shed has a foundation that is ~4ft deep, while the foundation for the house is closer to 6 ft. Right now I'm thinking that we will add siding halfway up the front, and then replace the greenhouse plastic for the top half, roof, and whole south side. That way it will look a little bit more purposeful as opposed to just looking like a plastic lean-to. Totally open to suggestions though if you have them!

Hi all,

Thanks again for all of your great advice!! We ultimately decided that taking out the stairwell and sacrificing the front door was worth it for a larger and less awkward kitchen, and a functional family room in the basement. So it's gone! We've also uncovered the brick chimney (which was covered in plaster, and two layers of brick wallpaper, obviously). We also spent a very fun weekend pulling up tile, multiple types of underlayment, and uncovering the original red oak floors. Most of the built-in-place cabinets are out and were donated to a local family that wanted to refurbish them and use in a rental. We're currently patching the floor in some spots. It's time to finalize the kitchen layout so we can get our new electrical run, and start ordering cabinets!

I'm looking for some advice on the cabinet layout I've been working on. I've read through a lot of these forums, and I think I've done the best that I am currently capable of, but there are a few specific spots I have questions about, and I'm looking for advice overall. For this first round of cabinets, we are trying to stay around $4500. The layout I have posted below is around $4000, so there is a little wiggle room. I have posted a plan view, and then elevation views for the two main walls of cabinets. Unfortunately, the Ikea software would not allow me to export the plans if there were any filler pieces, but rest assured that I will buy extra filler pieces to fill in a couple gaps!

Additionally, we decided that it was important to us that the sink stayed where it is in front of the window. This means I can't really follow the Ice-Water-Stone-Fire order because the sink is close to one end. I realize this is not ideal. I would be open to moving the range and fridge positions if someone had a compelling reason to do so, however I think the way I have the appliances arranged now makes the most sense?

We also have decided to table the island (pun intended) until later. I have it dash outlined below. There is enough space to have additional seating and storage, however the way the dimensions are working out, it will require either hacking some Ikea cabinets or building a custom furniture-type island. For now, we're going to focus on the perimeter cabinets, which will have all the appliances anyway, and once we get a good feel for how the space works we will have a better idea of what we want for the island I think.

I have the cabinets numbered in the figures below, along with some more specific questions. I've also included some photos of the new open corner--it already feels SO much better in there and we don't miss the front door a bit!

Thank you all!

*edit: after upload it seems the pictures are a bit small in the post... I am able to click on them and they get big enough to see the measurements, but if you are not please let me know and I will figure something else out!

1) 18-inch trash pull out base cabinet

2) 24-inch dishwasher

3) 36-inch sink cabinet (centered under 40-inch wide window with filler pieces on either side)

4) 30-inch base cabinet

5) 30-inch range and 30-inch range hood (though we do have space for 36-inch here)

6) 38-inch corner lazy susan base cabinet

7) 24-inch base cabinet

8) 30-inch pantry cabinet w/space for microwave (80 inch tall)

9) 36-inch refrigerator w/10-inch-tall refrigerator cab above

10) 24-inch pantry cabinet (80 inch tall)

11) 18-inch base cabinet

12) 9-inch wine rack (30 in tall)

13) 21-inch upper (30 in tall)

14) 21-inch upper (30 in tall)

15) 9-inch wine rack (30 in tall)

Specific questions:

--It seems like the trash placement (#1 on the other side of the DW from the sink, close to the living room) is not ideal. Would it be better to have that be a regular base cabinet, and split cabinet #4 into an 15 inch trash pull out cabinet and a 15 inch base cabinet? Or an 18 inch trash pull out and a 12 inch pull out? Ikea does not make a regular 12 inch base cabinet.

--I'm still stuck on what to do where upper cabinets 12-15 are. The space is 62 inches. I could fit 2x 24 inch cabinets and 1x 12 inch cabinet, or 2x 21 inch cabinets and 1x 18. I'm envisioning having a coffee maker on the counter underneath, so it would generally be a landing zone for the microwave and coffee station area. I thought the wine racks maybe add a little personality and keep things symmetrical, but open to suggestions!

--how important is symmetry around the fridge? The ikea microwave pantry cabinet only comes in a 30 inch width. I could fit a 30 inch cabinet on the other side, but they are expensive and it would be a little tight.

--we don't currently have a built-in microwave, and most built-in options are expensive. I'm thinking it might be possible to put our smaller countertop model in the microwave, which would leave the required clearances on the sides and back, and just buy an extra door and appliance garage hardware and hack the cabinet to make it work. I wasn't able to find any examples of people doing this online with ikea cabinets, though. Thoughts?

Some fun progress photos:

Before:

Now:

If you must leave the sink under the window, I would consider moving the range to where cabs 7 and 8 are in your IKEA plan, and shift the fridge and pantries down a bit to give yourself landing space on both sides of the range (eliminate cabinet 11, which just looks awkward, to gain space for this). The area between sink and range will be your most prime working space so you want to maximize it.

I think the suggestion to move the range to the fridge wall is a good one, and I also think the small cabinet near the pantry looks awkward (but perhaps it could be a functional drop zone as you come in? If you have drop zone plans there, I can see how it would work.). If you’re going to leave the appliances positioned as you have planned, I’d go with trash under the sink. Do a sink with an offset left side drain, and put your trash under the right side of the sink. That under sink space is often a waste, and with your layout it would be functional there. Like the pic below, which has explanations at the link below.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3617245/trash-pullout-and-drawer-under-sink-finally-installed

Good suggestions above. Consider eliminating the microwave cabinet. It seems so big and bossy. Just put a microwave on the counter.

personally would not have microwave landing area cohabitating w coffee zone. I'd put coffee on counter under open shelves in it's own spot. Looks like a good spot. An upper cab to left of fridge[not pantry] with either open section of carcass at greater depth or the ge spacemaker w hanging kit would be better for microwave. Fridges are deeper so this is so often one of better locations for that greater depth cab specefically for mwave ..then the next cabinet over is your standard depth. The bottom of microwave is considered ideal at 54 inches up from floor. I'd choose counter underneath the unit. Another mwave configuration is the Sharp "above counter" model which snugs in between two wall cabinets w no need for ledges or gaps as it vents from underneath. That one looks built in but it's just snugged in an opening, actually does not need a separate cabinet at all, and is full featured model. RE: cabs 12-15 : from left to right 15 in hinged on left, another 15 inch hinged on left , and last , a 30 in double door. all door sizes similar.

Hi all! Thanks for the very helpful comments! I realize the last cabinet on the end (11) is kind of weird. As @Muriel Thompson guessed, there is a cased opening right next to it that comes from our small entryway so I was envisioning some sort of drop zone there. I'm also trying to avoid running the pantry cabinets right up to the opening because it might feel too imposing right by the entry. I also tried laying out the kitchen on the east wall as many of you suggested.... here are some photos:

The problem I ran into is what to do regarding the uppers in this layout. To keep the budget in range I think we could only do them on either the east wall or the north wall. In this version I put them around the range hood, but it seems a bit weird to have a totally blank wall on the north wall. Open to suggestions!

I also adjusted the previous layout in the way that a couple of you mentioned by making the pantry cabinets smaller and less imposing (leaving more counter space!), and putting the trash in a pull out under the sink. Thanks @herbflavor for the suggestion of the Sharp over-the-counter microwave!

I would still appreciate any suggestions on how to improve these layouts! I still think I might like the stove a little better on the north wall because the zones seem a little more delineated in that version, but I am still torn! Thanks again for all your help.

I much prefer the layout with the range on the same wall as fridge. If you can't afford to do upper cabinets on both sides, I would probably choose to do them on the sink wall, especially near the dishwasher (you will want dish storage right there and the one lower cabinet you have next to the DW is not going to cut it). If you leave the area around the range open, you can always add more cabinets later if necessary, or put in a pot rack or other useful storage solution for that area. Alternately, you could do open shelving near the sink and keep the cabs near the stove.

I also like the range on the wall with the fridge. If you need more pantry space than that allows, could you put a pantry at the other end, to the left of your dishwasher? I think the sink wall with no uppers looks good. Add some open shelving there later when your budget allows. It’ll look great.

Hi all, thanks for your patience!! I think you've convinced me that the range on the wall with the fridge is the way to go. I do think having a pantry space is priority for me, so I've moved things around a little bit to make that happen, though it's not symmetrical around the fridge anymore. We also decided that we don't really want to run the cabinets (especially tall cabinets) right up to the cased opening, so we've left a bit more breathing room on that end.

Thanks!

It looks very nice. That’s a lot of kitchen for a small 1 bedroom space, though. Where will the exterior door be in this arrangement?

I noticed a couple of things about this version that annoy me about my current kitchen. First, if you can give yourself more than 12" between the range and the corner. That's what I have and it feels a bit crowded - even an additional 6" would be preferable.

Also, the upper cabinet that goes flat into the corner is going to be awkward to access (again, I have one). I am 6' tall and it's still a PITA. If you think you will eventually put shelves or more cabinets on the sink wall, I would get a corner cabinet solution for that corner now (or leave it open for eventual shelves.

I would also recommend more storage near the dishwasher (either open shelves, another cabinet or an island substitute). I have only one smallish upper cabinet near mine and it makes emptying it a much more annoying chore than it should be.

@Muriel Thompson We actually have two more bedrooms and a bathroom in our basement, so it's a good size for us now because we cook a lot, and it will work for a family in the future. Here's the floor plan updated with the cabinets!

@biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley) Thanks so much!! It is so good to know what works and what doesn't work for you. We're definitely planning on putting floating shelves above the dishwasher and also on the other side of the window.

I agree with you that corner is kind of awkward as is... since there's a 12 inch upper cabinet there, I guess I could either take it out completely and run the open shelves all the way into the corner? Or else I like the idea of a corner cabinet, that we could run the shelves right up to.

The space next to the stove is also a puzzle, I moved the 12 inch cabinet back and forth a few times! Ikea doesn't make 6 inch cabinets unfortunately. I put the 12 inch cabinet on the other side, because I was worried it would feel cramped to only have 24 inches between the stove and the fridge. It could go on the other side though! Or we could potentially build in a 6 inch lower somehow. I'll think about it, thanks for the insight!

I’m sorry. I was confusing your reno with one I’ve been following for another poster, I recant my statements regarding size!!

Next to the stove I would do 24" on each side rather than 12" and 36" (or you could do 18" and 30", if IKEA makes those sizes). Bigger drawers are better and you will lose less space to glides, box sides, etc. by using two larger cabinets rather than three smaller.

With the upper corner, either a corner cabinet with shelves abutting or open shelves into the corner could look good - do a google search for upper corner cabinets with shelves or something so you can see what the various options look like and choose what you prefer.

I have an angled upper cabinet like that in one corner of my kitchen, and although I sort of prefer the look of the EZ reach corner upper, I do find the angled version very useful. The depth is great for storing oversized plates and other awkwardly large items. If mine were outfitted with a lazy susan I would definitely use it for spices. I like the look of that arrangement with the shelves much better than the flat cabinet and I think you will find it much more functional!

Hi all, reviving this thread with some after photos! We did 95% of the work ourselves, ran into many more problems than expected, but managed to do it all in ~6 months, including taking down walls and the stairwell, building in the new kitchen corner, patching the hardwood, refinishing the floors, all new wiring and lighting (inspected by the city) and finishing the kitchen . The kitchen is SO MUCH BETTER. We did end up going with Ikea, and did not seem to have as many problems sourcing the correct sizes as many people have due to the crazy supply chain issues. At some point we may build a custom island, but for now we're enjoying our new flexible floor plan and have it set up as an eat-in kitchen. I really do love it, and don't miss the front door a bit. We turned that area into a cozy patio on the outside. Thanks again for all of your help, and let me know if anyone is curious for more details!

Some before pictures so you don't have to scroll up:

And an extra old listing photo that shows the former double stairwell situation:

Wow, it looks awesome. Enjoy!