Advice on Kitchen Layout/Ideas (First Kitchen/First Home)

14 years ago

Hey All,

This is my first post. Sorry if it's long or if I make some faux pas.

Here we go....this will be our first kitchen remodel in our first house so we're hoping you guys (who seem way more experienced) can share your thoughts.

Current Kitchen:

The current kitchen is a bit dated, doesn't have gas, and we feel it's a bit dark. It's got an eating area on the right side.

The current layout has the fridge where the range is on the layout link. An original oven is located where the fridge is on the layout and to the left of that is the electric cooktop.

There are currently soffits above the cabinets with a light box that's flush with the soffits. Along the top wall there is also a phone/desk area that's lower than the rest of the counters.

There is also a large window on the left wall with the sink there.

Flow:

Going through the top entryway you hit the front door with bedrooms to the right and the living/dining room to the left.

Going through the bottom entryway you enter the family room with the garage to the left of that and the backyard to the right.

Plans:

Our main goal is to update the kitchen, brighten the space, bring in gas, and make the kitchen flow a bit better.

As you can see from the layout I currently have we're swapping the range/fridge and leaving the sink and dishwasher where they currently are. We're also considering removing all the soffits and just doing recessed lighting.

Our major limiting factor is the budget (when is it never a limiting factor).

Cabinets:

Darker chocolate/espresso color (options we're not sure yet b/c there are so many!) We'd like a pantry on the bottom wall next to the fridge (we've also thought about swapping pantry and fridge positions)

Counters:

Quartz or granite

Flooring:

Porcelain Tile

Backsplash:

Glass mosaic tiles

GE Stainless Steel Appliances

36" Counter Depth Fridge

30" Duel Fuel Range

36" 400CFM Range hood

24" Microwave

24" dishwasher

Some concerns we have are if the 36" hood over a 30" range will be strange. We're also afraid that the kitchen will feel unbalanced with more counter top space along the top wall.

We're not 100% sure about removing the soffits yet (due to budget). Most of the labor bids we've gotten are in the 20kish range (high?). We're thinking maybe it's because we're bringing in gas and bringing all the electrics up to code. We're also a bit confused about permits, we know we need them and we need them before we start, but outside of that it's a bit confusing.

If any more info is needed please let me know and I'll edit or post udpates. We're in the CA bay area if that makes any difference.

Thanks so much for reading through the post and I look forward to hearing any responses!

Comments (6)

John Liu
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I guess your original thread was lost as part of the site problems?

Anyway, depending on how you feel about "open" plans, and depending on structural/budget issues, I'd consider opening up all or part of the wall between the kitchen and the dining room, or between the kitchen and the family room. You could continue to have base cabinets and counters there, they'd simply become accessible from the other room as well, and there would be the possibility of counter seating. The main reason I suggest looking into this, is because the existing kitchen is quite narrow, and might feel rather constricted.
Buehl
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Luckily, I still had Firefox open so I didn't lose the hours of work I put into it...so here's my reply...again!

Ideally, kitchen work flows from Refrigerator/Pantry --> Sink --> Range. However, some common sense does have to be present in that you don't want the refrigerator too far away from the range if you can help it. For example, if you have a refrigerator + 36" counter + 36" sink + 24" DW + 12" cabinet + range...that's probably over 9'...but you can usually do better than that. You also want to be careful where things like the DW are placed...you don't want it in the Prep Zone or in the direct path b/w the range & sink or refrigerator & sink. So, with these comments in mind...

First a question...do you need the eating area in the kitchen? You mention a DR...would you be willing to give up seating in the kitchen for a spacious work area? If so, a couple of the plans below will give you that. If not, well I did some w/seating as well.

I know you put appliances in specific locations, but if you're open to other ideas, how about something like the first two?

They both maximize counterspace where you really need it...between the range & sink for prepping. While they both move the sink out from directly under the window, the still leave the sink very near the window. Since most people spend 70% of their time prepping and only 20% cleaning up, a prep space in front of the window seems like a nice setup.

In one case, I added a corner pantry with 12" deep shelves & 15" deep shelves. Most people find that 12" to 15" deep shelves are deep enough and that 18" or deeper are too deep...things get lost. Myself, I have a corner step-in pantry similar to what I put in for you in Layout #1. All my small appliances except my toaster oven fit on the 12" shelves. The 15" shelves provide deeper storage "just in case"...it turned out my potato bins are 15" deep...so it was perfect! [Drywalled pantries are usually less expensive, btw, than pantry cabinets.]

In the second layout, I added 5 feet of 18" deep pantry cabinets instead. With an 18" deep pantry cabinet, you have approx 16" to 17" deep shelves inside (account for front & back wall depths).

In the third layout, there's a 33" pantry cabinet. (More on the third layout later.)

This gives you 3 options for a pantry.

Here are the first two layouts that are different than what you specified...note how open the kitchen is with these layouts and how much counter & cabinet storage you have.

Layout #1

Layout #2

Layout #1A (Layout #1 w/an eating area)

This next one has a small eating area...basically, room for two. It allows you to have a little more room for counters/cabinets than the full-size eating area. (It also shows you more options for seating in the kitchen.)

Layout #1B (Layout #1 with small eating area)

Layout #3 tries to give you the appliance arrangement you specified while also giving you some decent work space. However, notice how the refrigerator/pantry wall, especially, is "heavy". You come very close to creating a "black hole" corner b/c of the bulk of the refrigerator so close to the window wall.

The other issue is that the DW is in the path b/w the sink & range...which is also the space that's most logical for prepping.

This first one has the small eating area. It allows you to have a little more room for counters/cabinets than a full-size eating area.

Layout #3

Layout #3A Full eating area (like in Layout #1A)

...

Which is my favorite? Layout #1. I think it has the best of everything...lots of pantry storage + lots of cabinet & counter space and better balanced with respect to counter space than the others. If some seating is a must, then Layout #1B.
Related Discussions
First time home buyer: Ideas for kitchen
Q
Comments (4)
Congrats, Kris. I agree with investigating your possibilities and letting them simmer for a while, but why not go ahead and paint right now to suit yourself? The awful paneling. Cabinets. Everything. You'll be pleased and happy and no longer in a hurry to do something that actually costs money. The suggestion to leave that phony paneling in place and eventually panel over is a good one. Do paint at least it now, if nothing else, so you can smile instead of wince, then eventually cover with the surface of your choice. Unfortunately, it usually still looks substandard after it's painted because there's just not enough of the right kind of texture to it. I've done it, BTW, and been very pleased with the result, but I was a very young housewife with a pile of maternity bills, and the possibility of showcasing its cheesiness by juxtaposing nice new cabinetry against it mercifully wasn't a possibility. I just ran new paint over everything in sight, sewed up new curtains for the window, scrubbed and waxed the linoleum, and hung some posters and plants (anybody guessing the era here?), and I'm guessing it probably did look as cute as I thought it did then. Even poverty can pay off sometimes. :)
...See More
FIrst home - kitchen layout help, please...
Q
Comments (6)
Thank you so much for your feedback, lavender_lass. I cannot believe how much your design opened up the space. I previously though that a wine fridge would have een out of the question, but am beginning to rethink that given the way you redesigned the space. Thank you very much!!
...See More
First home buyer need kitchen makeover!Modern farmhouse idea pls help!
Q
Comments (10)
First start some idea books that is what helps us understand what you like. Also we need more pictures a floor plan done to scale , a list of things you don’t like about the kitchen Are you getting new appliances and even if not we need the sizes of those . I will say it is best to live with the space for awhile before doing anything, that gives you time to see how the house works for you. It is surprising sometimes that what you think will happen in the space just doesn’t . IMO the min. amount of time is 3 months of living in the space.I assume these are the realtor pics and not your furniture.
...See More
First time home buyer - Need Kitchen Design Advice
Q
Comments (7)
I only have a couple of suggestions: ”We will be staining the floor to be a darker color.” I don’t recommend this. Dark floors are a maintenance nightmare. They show every speck. You will have to clean them constantly because a couple of specks look so glaring against a dark floor they’ll make it seem as if the entire floor is not clean. I am not exaggerating, so mark my words. Meanwhile, the natural stain that is on the floor now shows nothing. I’d keep it if possible. ”Any ideas on backsplash?” Backsplash must be chosen last, after everything else is installed, especially after the counters. Even seasoned interior designers with decades of experience wait to install the backsplash. If you try to pick a backsplash too early you will make a mistake. ”The current island is 3x4. What island size do you recommend?” It is impossible to answer this question without having precise measurements of the kitchen. Anyone who says they can answer this question without drawn-to-scale kitchen measurements you should run far far away from. Plus are you going to have seating or not at the island will certainly affect island size. There are also aisle clearances to keep in mind, and things like can you open the oven door with a bigger island, and what about the flooring under the island what happens to that, and what about seating and counter overhangs for seating, and what about electrical for the island as there are building Code requirements for electrical in the island. As mentioned in the post above, don’t dive in too fast or you will regret it. Though I don’t think you need 6-12 months; I think 3-6 months should give you an idea of what you like and don’t like about the kitchen. It will also help to have the time to research and learn some things about kitchen renovation. In any case, lead times for contractors are, like, 4-6 months these days, so you won’t be able to implement changes in a short time in any case.
...See More
jakkom
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Be sure to budget $$$ to bring whatever is needed up to current code - inspectors are VERY STRICT here in the Bay Area. It's your responsibility to pull the necessary permits. First you do the research and design work, then go to the county dept. with good drawings.

Depending on where you live, permits can be expensive. Here in Alameda Cty they are a percentage of the total project cost - not insignificant. The permit has a 'shelf life', I believe - it isn't good forever.
deekay
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hey Guys,

Yea my original post was lost and I decided not to save what I wrote :p I thought I made some sort of mistake and it was deleted at first!

Here's a link with more detail as to how the kitchen is in respect to other rooms.
I forgot to note that the family room is a step down.

Anyways so far great info. It's totally led us to rethink what we can/should do.

johnliu: we thought about taking down a wall, but the living room wall is so big and half of the wall leading to the family room is used by the garage. Also we imagine it'd cost more $$$ to open it up.

buehl: Wow! Thanks so much for taking the time to show up some alternatives. You made some great points and we rethought our initial layout. It's just the two of us right now so we'd prefer to keep the dining area in the kitchen so we think we really like your 1b layout.

We considered layout 1, but we think the kitchen would feel even more closed in if we closed up the half wall to put the pantry there.

jkom51: Thanks for the info about the permits. We're over in santa clara county and while the website has a lot of great info there's not a lot of direction as to where to start. We'll be sure to try and get some solid plans before we head over to see what permits we need.

We met with a lowe's KD today, but seeing these posts makes me think she'll have to redraw/requote what we got today.

Any thoughts on the soffits? In meeting with the lowe's rep she mentioned that if we kept them some of the cabinets would further out than the soffits.

Anyways, keep any more thoughts coming, we appreciate it and will try and keep you guys posted as far as what we do.

Thanks!
earthpal
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi Deekay!

I grew up in west San Jose and lived in Santa Clara for 10 years before moving over to the coast!

Do you live in the city of Santa Clara, or one of the other cities or out in the unincorporated part of the county? That will make a huge difference in your permits. County level is not as strict as city will be. I would also see if you can find online the code requirements for your house before solidifying your plans. It is amazing how one little change can ripple thru a design.

Good Luck!
bmorepanic
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
{{gwi:1989710}}

Thoughts about this and that...

You might consider induction as a lower cost alternative to bringing in gas. It has most of the advantages of gas - quick reaction times for example and can do a lot of tasks more rapidly.

Above places emphasis on cooking and gear. If you want more of a connection to the family room, you could recreate the half wall on the ref side instead and convert part of that counter area into a rounder place for two stools. This would also provide a deeper area for larger baking tasks. Or you can look into opening the kitchen to the family room by removing the entire wall between them and place some stools on the family room side (bar height).

If this is your first house and you haven't lived in it for a year, my best advice is to wait before you actually do anything about the kitchen. Your view of the space and what you want will clarify.

It might be helpful to have a list of goals with priorities attached. My own priority list became something like:
--- I need more prep counter
--- Dh needs a place to sit and work
--- The view from the back window is the point
--- Move the d--n refrigerator
--- Keep cooking stuff together

Some people like mission statements like
"My kitchen is an organized oasis surrounded by nature."

Either one gives you a way to rate choices by whether they contribute to your goals. Either will help you become analytical about how much very dark wood cabinets contribute to a "brighter" kitchen. They might, but it would need some work to figure it out.

National Kitchen and Bath Association has a set of design guidelines developed from the current national building code. They are almost in english. There are also many books - I enjoyed the motion minded kitchen by sam clark and some of the country living and house beautiful kitchen books. I got them out of the library.