Please help with appliance layout of gutted kitchen

3 years ago

Hello! I've been planning a kitchen overhaul and it swirls around my head more and more everyday. I live in a historical home from the 1910's that (except for the kitchen and some baths) is largely untouched. It's a grand home and an absolute gem, but it's time for a kitchen remodel. The kitchen has been done 2x that I know of. I don't have a lot of space and there are lots of doorways and windows to work around. It's in the back of the house tucked away from the rest of the living space (but still tiny bit visible from the foyer). I have a separate dining room and a living room. No open floor plan and I love it! After living decades with an open plan, I am delighted to prepare a holiday meal and keep the mess in the kitchen and out of sight! However, I do want my kitchen to be lovely and match the rest of the house. I want the kitchen to be laid out in a way that makes sense. I'd like to think of it as small, but mighty. There's a chance that we will be selling it in 10 years, so I'd like it to be universally appealing. As for us, we have a large family of older children. I host extended family a few times year for big holidays. I don't care for people hanging around the kitchen. I cook 6 days a week and bake often. There is usually one, but sometimes two cooks in the kitchen. I don't love cooking, but it has to be done. My biggest complaint about my current kitchen (besides slate floors that still look bad after vacuuming and scrubbing) is a lack of counter space. I'm having trouble laying out the appliances to have a working triangle. It seems there will be an island in the way. It's technically obstructing the triangle now, but it doesn't bother me.

My want-list for appliances:

36" range, either a BlueStar or a Wolf. I am very interested in the Wolf induction top. I find the 36" pretty tight for my kitchen, but the 30" seems too small for my needs.
Additional 24" or preferably 30" wall oven, below the counter. I like the idea of a speed oven.
I have a wall that will accommodate any size fridge. Sometimes I fantasize about 2 full-sized fridges (or seperate fridge and smaller freezer column, but that's at the expense of counter space. I have one 40" fridge now and and a broken (still taking up room) under-counter drawer fridge. The one big fridge is not enough. If I do one fridge in the main kitchen, I'd consider putting another fridge in the pantry. I like the Subzero fridges with a panel and my husband likes the look of the BlueStar. We'll sort it out.
BTW, there's a picture on the BlueStar website that has a wall of two fridges and a double wall oven in between. It's a wall of appliances and it makes me swoon and want to ditch my idea of a range and go with an induction cooktop (and pop-up downdraft ventilation) on the island. See? I'm swirling!
I want a 30" farmhouse sink under the window. Right now the gas cooktop is under the window. I am worried that the last two remodels have had a range under the window and a sink in the island. I can even see the blueprints of the last remodel in the 90's called for a sink under the window. And yet there's a cooktop there. I wonder if there's a plumbing problem that prevents either the sink under the window or the gas on the island. The house is made entirely of poured concrete, but there is a basement and all the pipes are exposed and easily accessed on the basement ceiling.
A dishwasher (or 2!)

As I mentioned, I am planning a pretty good sized pantry that will store less-used pots and pans and baking stuff. I am also thinking of additional auxiliary counter space there as well. I'm think of things like letting the decorated Christmas cookies dry there. Stuff like that.

My current configuration has an island with seating and I don't really care for that. But I can be talked into keeping it. :)

I cannot move any walls, windows or doors. But, wait! We are planning to knock down an existing wall that is drywall and not poured concrete and was put up a few decades ago.

Here's my space and measurements. It's crude, but hopefully adequate.

I would love, love, LOVE input (please)!

Here's my current kitchen. Note that the sink and range top placements are actually reversed:

And here's the BlueStar wall of appliances that makes me swoon: Would it work?

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Comments (13)

PRO
Sabrina Alfin Interiors
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
You're going to need a good kitchen designer, and I doubt you'll be able to get (2) 36" refrigerators plus the oven stack anywhere within that layout. You'd need ~110" of clear wall space to make that happen, if you figure 36" + 36" + 30" (wall oven) = 102" + spacers in between.
You've got four doorways to work around which is going to be tough. I think you'll have to do some reconfiguring of the walls to make this work and still be a functional kitchen. Have you thought about expanding the footprint to the limit of the deck? If you have enough room to meet the setback requirement for your neighborhood, that might be something to consider. More expensive, to be sure, as you'd need to adjust the roofline.
decoenthusiaste
3 years ago
If you can incorporate the deck and pantry into the footprint of the kitchen and convert the office into a pantry, I think you can pull it off.
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I'm not implying that there is anything wrong with what you want to do. (of course) But, I'm not seeing enough storage or a good prep spot. But one of the consequences of the ref in that particular location is that it will block the entrance to the dining room. No big deal if you never use the dining room, but a reasonable size pita if you have extended family dinners or entertain. Not the worst thing in the world. But there is that fat looking space in the center with nothing in it. So this is just a "what if" quick sketch of what I'd be more tempted by and is NOT intended to convey a finished plan... Slice a little bit off the family room and dining room. Another thought passing by was that maybe, the dining room should become the kitchen and the kitchen be the dining room.
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My old galley kitchen had a 3' aisle and I had no problem with it, so I don't think I would find a 3.5' aisle too tight, especially given that the peninsula side wouldn't have upper cabs. However, I don't think I'm a fan of the peninsula because it leaves us only one aisle into the actual kitchen. With the island set up we have now, there are two, so if I am cooking and my husband comes in from outside and needs to get to the sink, he can access it without walking past me, or if we both come in with groceries, etc., one can go to the far side of the island and the other cut in on the side closest to the door.
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You have no where near enough space in your walkways so no island in that space . Go to good appliance store and choose appliances for how you cook Bosch makes IMO the best DW but not the best range .Your fridge is too far from the sink and mant kitchens function much better without an island . If you entertain and cook a lot I would suggest a 36” range a pantry outside the cook zone is IMO wasted space and not functional I think you need a KD to help you understand the basics of kitchen design A U shaped kitchen is very functional but not if you mess it up with a useless island that makes cooking just a PITA. If you post a to scale floor plan of this space along with at least an idea of surrounding spaces you might get some real help here. Mark all windows and door ways and where the plumbing is if it has to stay.
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Some ideas to consider: - your last sketch has a lot of traffic going on in a single passageway - from fridge to stove to sink plus entry to Dining Room - you're not using all the space the room affords - I don't see storage for dishes near the DR - agree with comments above about prep sink. - I love my drawers that replace lower cabinets, just as someone above mentioned - they are much more efficient and easy to access. - I recommend, since you are a cook, running through one of your most frequently used recipes virtually and see if this sketched kitchen layout works well for you - where will you put things as you take them out of the fridge, where will the pans be stored, spices, how will you clean up afterwards, how will you remove plates from dining to DW, etc. - same for coffee making, toasting, mixing, baking, etc. - I would want the distance between fridge and sink to be efficient as I am always taking out produce that needs to be washed or emptying old containers at sink or cleaning the fridge. My triangle has the sink (at windows) opposite the stove (45" apart) at island with the fridge about 6 ft to the side of both of them - very efficient. - landing space near fridge and microwave is required - an exit to the outdoors is always nice but not efficient if there is no place to put things at that entry point - a closet or place to hang a jacket or put things down - doesn't seem like this plan takes that into account - for me I agree with someone above who suggested flipping the DR and kitchen and open the space to the FR - openness is great to FR, not so much to DR or LR. And they made an excellent point about crowds always gathering in the kitchen. But openness to FR may not be to your taste. - I would not want an opening from LR into kitchen unless the doorway could be closed with some kind of doors - maybe pocket doors? Kitchen's can get pretty messy... - you can put cabinets under your island on all sides to get maximum storage there - even on the side people are sitting on, for rarely used items. Standard cabinets are 24 inches so you can put them back to back in a 48-50" island. - when I planned my kitchen I listed everything in the existing kitchen and mapped it to new storage in the new kitchen to make sure I'd thought of where it all would go and how efficient it would be to reach it. - you may want to consider a drawer microwave in the island. We have 2 microwaves one above the ovens and one in the island - very efficient.
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jennabebebe
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I'm glad to know about the 30" BlueStar fitting the sheet pan. That does make me feel better! I cannot move any walls (except the little one that I mentioned). So expanding the size of the kitchen is out of the question. I need to work within my size constraints and I am looking for advice on how to keep it realistic as far as the size of the appliances. This is my first step and it's about feasibility, so I really appreciate the input. I do seem a few inches short of the 36/30/36 fridge/oven/fridge arrangement. So I could go to 30/30/30 (not with BlueStar fridge because they only do 36", but paneled Subzeros). What I'm wondering is would it be a good idea? I liked the idea of consolidating the appliances. Or just do one big fridge and have a beverage fridge in the pantry?
PRO
Sabrina Alfin Interiors
3 years ago
I don't believe Bluestar makes 30" refrigerator and freezer columns, but Thermador does. Unless you really need two full-sized refrigerators, I'd just opt for a single 36" and go for an undercounter wine fridge in the island or pantry.
jennabebebe
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you, JuneKnow, for shining light on not so obvious costs. The electrical and plumbing have been updated, but I am sure there'll be surprise or two because there always are! I do have a big enough budget to accommodate the project even with the high-end appliances. And you're absolutely right, a kitchen designer is in order. All I have to do is find a good one! I am just seeking advice and opinions on what I can make work with my size limitations. And I would like to glean enough advice to suss out a good designer and know what my options are.

Thank you, SAI, that's just the kind of advice I am looking for!
decoenthusiaste
3 years ago
Ice, Water, Stone, Fire will help you plan better.
julieste
3 years ago
I have a house of your vintage, and we did the kitchen almost 25 years ago. Since that remodel 25 years ago we have purchased new replacement appliances and installed a new countertop. Other than that it is the same kitchen we put in. And, it still looks up to date and like something someone who is now planning a kitchen in a vintage house would put in.

Why? We put period appropriate cabinetry in, parts of it original to the era and parts custom made. We also have some variation in cabinet depth and heights that make the kitchen look more organic and right for the period of the house. When we replaced the countertops maybe 7 years ago we went with marble and soapstone because they fit the vintage well. We also went to a salvage place and found a radiator that gave us more room and a different feel than the pervious set up.

We entertain, I cook a lot, and we have adult children with lots of grandkids. I have always found my 30" gas Wolf range more than adequate for my cooking needs. I have an additional wall oven, and about the only time I really always use both ovens is Thanksgiving.

If you find a kitchen designer, make sure s/he is well versed in working with old houses. Not all of them are.
jennabebebe
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you, Julieste. What you've done is exactly what I am hoping to achieve. We figure if we stay to true to it's time (like the rest of the house) it will never look out-dated. How do you like the soapstone? That's what we we've thinking of because it seems to fit the time-period. I've been spoiled by the ease of granite, so I am a little hesitant.
Muriel Thompson
3 years ago
@julieste, are there any pics of your kitchen on Houzz already? I’d love to see pics. I also have an old home (1905) and am working on my remodel plans right now. Thanks.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
Here's an idea, if plumbing can be moved for the clean-up sink. It has the bare minimum aisles between the perimeter cabs and island, but in an old house remodel, concessions usually must be made. Frankly, since your house is large and grand, I think you need a bigger kitchen, more consistent with the size of the house. But, if that's not feasible, this puts the fridge near the DR and the cooktop on the outside wall, for easy venting. You have the wall of appliances, but maybe space for only a 24" freezer column.

If you use a 12" trash pull-out (I have that size, and it works fine for our household of 5), you can have 5" to the left of the prep sink, but with the next larger trash po (15"), only 2" or less, depending on the depth of the overhang on the other end. I drew the island as 30" deep, but you have generous aisles in that dimension, so it could be deeper--up to 38" to include 12" cabinets on the back, for more storage.
jennabebebe
Original Author
3 years ago
That is clever! I didn't even think of pivoting the island. And I like the labelled "Wall of Awe" :)

Please help with appliance layout of gutted kitchen

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Sabrina Alfin Interiors

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Please help with appliance layout of gutted kitchen

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