Where to plant Zephirine Drouhin?

3 years ago

Good evening all! I'm thrilled to pieces because I've gotten my hands on a nice healthy 2.5 gallon Zephirine that I'd love to plant by the front door. We live in a white east-facing Cape Cod, very symmetrical, yew hedges under the windows on both sides. Sun all morning plus some mid-afternoon sun after it goes around the big corner trees.

There's 3 feet of wall between the door and the windows on either side. My question is whether this area is wide enough for Zeph to grow? If necessary maybe she could cascade some over the yew but primarily I have a vision of beautiful pink sprays between the door and window. Possible? (In the close-up you can see the potted Zeph where I'm hoping to plant her, between a little euonymus ball and the yew. It's a complicated area - the hedges and window and an electric meter she'll have to arch over.)

We live in NE Missouri (6A). Will Zeph grow tall enough here to achieve this? The ground is two feet below the front door step and there is a flower bed on the other side of the walkway. So she'd be mainly visible from 2 or 3 feet up. I've seen photos where she looks to be a wide fountain with blooms to the ground. Is this her preferred habit and therefore unrealistic to try to train her tall and thin (8x3)?

Then there is my husband's worry: If she's not a repeat bloomer, then for 11 months of the year will she just be an unsightly bare thing occupying highly visible prime space in the front of the house? He's worried I'm setting myself up for heartbreak. I could always put her in the side yard (would have to move a giant Nikko Blue that never blooms) but this is the sunniest morning aspect. Plus I hate to waste her qualities of fragrance and thornlessness (totally thornless!) if she can be spectacular for us here. Sorry this post got long and thank you so much in advance.

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Comments (3)

Krista_5NY
3 years ago
I don't know how large it will grow in your zone, but I've seen photos of it where it is quite large. There might not be enough room for it close to the shrubs. It can tolerate some shade, so perhaps it would do well in another location. I grow Kathleen Harrop, a sport of ZD. It has scattered repeat bloom later in the season. The fragrance is wonderful.

Kathleen Harrop is 3 1/2 feet wide here, but I imagine would grow much wider in a warmer zone.
strawchicago z5
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Hi Coldsnap: Love your house, it's so cozy !! Zeph. Drouhin looks good without blooms if it gets watered in my alkaline clay. It gives a heavy spring flush, and a few blooms (4 to 5) in 2nd and 3rd flush if it gets enough water. It's wider than tall, 3 feet tall and 3.5' wide in my zone 5. Zeph. is prone to blackspots and needs excellent drainage. I spent 2 hours digging a deep hole plus it's on a hill so water drains fast. Some bush-shot of Zeph in only 4 hours of sun, 100% thornless, it's a spreading fountain-shaped (wider than tall).

James Galway is a better choice (tall & slender), it's low-thorn but the growth pattern is neat & tidy & NOT messy like Zeph. in my zone 5.

I don't grow Clair Martin but many people praise that rose for wonderful scent, good repeat & healthy. HMF states that Clair Martin is 6' x 4'. versus Zeph at 10' x 6' wide.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.1207&tab=36

Queen of Sweden is not a climber, but acts like one. It's tall & slender at 5+ feet tall and 2.5 feet wide. Queen of Sweden REPEATS blooms better than James Galway (can get OVER 12 feet as own-root in zone 5). Both are 100% healthy & known for disease resistant, but Queen of Sweden is a prettier bush .. James gets messy, arching down & needs to be tied up in a trellis since he's too tall.

If you have tons of rain, then Queen of Sweden is more appropriate for that spot than James Galway. Queen won't poke anyone, but James (too tall) and Zeph (too wide) will. Queen doesn't need a trellis. She's slender & upright similar to your evergreen in front.

Queen of Sweden can take poor drainage clay and STAY HEALTHY, never see diseases nor rose slugs on Queen of Sweden. James Galway is a bigger water-hog and doesn't repeat blooms like Queen of Sweden (continuous blooming if enough acidic rain). James sometimes give only 2 flushes per year.
ColdSnap 6A thanked strawchicago z5
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By "substantial" I mean thickness -- and those laterals are substantial enough to be considered future canes. And something to keep in mind is that if you train substantial laterals as though they were canes, and they sprout their own laterals, you'll find that the rose will not be producing as many new canes. This is because, as I hypothesize, the root system can support only so many actively-growing buds. When you prune all the laterals down to a few bud eyes, you're removing actively-growing buds -- and this sends a signal to the roots to activate buds lower down which will become new canes or basal breaks. If you instead allow the laterals to grow, then train them as if they're main canes, they'll sprout laterals of their own. This means more actively-growing buds, which tells the root system "we're good up here -- no new canes needed." Which way works for you depends on the rose -- some can flower for years on the same canes, while others' canes will be exhausted after a year or two. You'll know as you go. If the cane looks somewhat "deflated", and new growth is thin and spindly, the cane is probably exhausted and should be cut back hard. If your rose is own-root, you can remove it entirely, and a new cane can come from the roots. If your rose is on rootstock, you'll want to cut it almost all the way off, leaving a few inches of it remaining. If you look closely, you'll see the "sleeping" bud eyes -- there's usually a sort of red freckle in the middle of a thin line going around the cane. If you cut back to one of these, it'll wake up, and a new strong cane should spring forth. If you can't see them, just leave four or five inches of cane and wait to see where a new bud starts growing, then cut back to just before that. I'm not personally familiar with the rose you pictured, but based on what I see, I'd leave those laterals and let them grow. When they start to harden -- but before they're totally stiff -- I'd start guiding them to go in the opposite direction from the main cane against the wall. In your pictures, that means to the left. If and when the rest of that main cane going to the right becomes exhausted, you can cut it back to the first strong lateral, and let that lateral function as the main cane. It's all something you'll learn as you go and become familiar with your roses. You'll get a sense of when a cane is exhausted, and you'll just cut back to the first "not exhausted" growth emanating from it. Remember that more laterals will form the closer to horizontal a cane is trained, and let that guide you. If a strong lateral is growing too long for where you want it to go, just prune it back to a set of leaflets with a bud eye facing the direction where you want new growth to go. :-) ~Christopher
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ColdSnap 6A
Original Author
3 years ago
Hi @strawchicago and @Krista_5NY so sorry I'm only now seeing your kind replies! I did plant ZD right there, after chopping the back of the yew hedge to ensure circulation (which did not please my husband). The soil there drains very freely from decades of OG/sand amendment for spring bulbs. ZD has grown by leaps and bounds, more than doubled in size! And so far escaped BS - leaves look great. But as you explained so well, @strawchicago z5, it's extremely floppy — upright only because it's tied to a trellis, which it will soon outgrow if the canes survive winter. If a tie comes undone, that cane falls right down.

None of my other roses flops in the least and of course this is in the tightest space. (For instance Teasing Georgia, my other fast grower, is wrapped around an obelisk but those canes have some rigidity and stay put once tied. If ZD remains a mess of wet spaghetti I'll have to replace it with one of your excellent tall vertical suggestions. Does anyone know if ZD canes do get woody with maturity or will it always flop? Also, do climbing roses stay tied up for winter?

Where to plant Zephirine Drouhin?

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Krista_5NY

strawchicago z5

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Where to plant Zephirine Drouhin?

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Krista_5NY

strawchicago z5

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