Placing a Zephirine Drouhin

13 years ago

Okay, so I lucked into a fabulous specimen of Zephirine Drouhin on end-of-season sale at a local nursery. And now the problem is where to put her. My best choices at the moment are on a trellis with good morning sun and afternoon shade, or trying to train her up a low branched tree (vitex agnus-castus) that gets more sun but perhaps a bit too much afternoon reflected heat from the white wall behind it. I worry about cooking her in the 100+ degree days of August/September. Has anyone tried growing Zeffy on a tree? Success?

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Comments (12)

amandahugg
13 years ago
If you're in Sunset zone 21, your best choice would be to return the plant and get your money back. That is, unless you enjoy foliage that is absolutely white from constant powdery mildew. Zephy is one hot mildew mess in our climate...and it's pretty much a one time bloomer.
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
13 years ago
Zepphy is not at her best in So Cal. A winter chill makes significant improvement--a real winter chill, not the So Cal kind. I would put it in the least conspicuous place.
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It sounds lovely! Along the lines of a suggestion of an arbor, how about swagging the climber across a heavy rope from one 4x4 to another 4x4 rather than having a rigid cross piece? I just love swagged roses. Also, I've been researching thornless pink climbers for my porch recently. Zepherine Drouhin was on my list (despite being a hotter pink than I want) until I read a post on Facebook by Paul Zimmerman. Here's a quote, "Oh, I've grown it over the years - and never really fallen in love with it. The blooms are a little too hot pink for my taste and for me it blackspots consistently. Even if I leave it alone to let it try to build its own immunities, come summer I can still count on its foliage looking like the face of a coal miner just finishing a 12 hour shift." What he recommended instead is a lighter pink sport of ZD "Kathleen Harrop." Here's what he had to say about it, "I planted my first Kathleen Harrop at our farm some 15 years ago. I've never regretted it. The blooms are a softer pink, it is also thornless but best of all it rarely gets disease for me. I grow her as a large free standing shrub and year in and year out she covers herself with undulations of shell pink, fragrant blooms. A real standout in our garden. Why not give her a home in your garden." Just thought I'd pass that along in case you'd consider a lighter pink sport.
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By "substantial" I mean thickness -- and those laterals are substantial enough to be considered future canes. And something to keep in mind is that if you train substantial laterals as though they were canes, and they sprout their own laterals, you'll find that the rose will not be producing as many new canes. This is because, as I hypothesize, the root system can support only so many actively-growing buds. When you prune all the laterals down to a few bud eyes, you're removing actively-growing buds -- and this sends a signal to the roots to activate buds lower down which will become new canes or basal breaks. If you instead allow the laterals to grow, then train them as if they're main canes, they'll sprout laterals of their own. This means more actively-growing buds, which tells the root system "we're good up here -- no new canes needed." Which way works for you depends on the rose -- some can flower for years on the same canes, while others' canes will be exhausted after a year or two. You'll know as you go. If the cane looks somewhat "deflated", and new growth is thin and spindly, the cane is probably exhausted and should be cut back hard. If your rose is own-root, you can remove it entirely, and a new cane can come from the roots. If your rose is on rootstock, you'll want to cut it almost all the way off, leaving a few inches of it remaining. If you look closely, you'll see the "sleeping" bud eyes -- there's usually a sort of red freckle in the middle of a thin line going around the cane. If you cut back to one of these, it'll wake up, and a new strong cane should spring forth. If you can't see them, just leave four or five inches of cane and wait to see where a new bud starts growing, then cut back to just before that. I'm not personally familiar with the rose you pictured, but based on what I see, I'd leave those laterals and let them grow. When they start to harden -- but before they're totally stiff -- I'd start guiding them to go in the opposite direction from the main cane against the wall. In your pictures, that means to the left. If and when the rest of that main cane going to the right becomes exhausted, you can cut it back to the first strong lateral, and let that lateral function as the main cane. It's all something you'll learn as you go and become familiar with your roses. You'll get a sense of when a cane is exhausted, and you'll just cut back to the first "not exhausted" growth emanating from it. Remember that more laterals will form the closer to horizontal a cane is trained, and let that guide you. If a strong lateral is growing too long for where you want it to go, just prune it back to a set of leaflets with a bud eye facing the direction where you want new growth to go. :-) ~Christopher
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I feel your pain, Rehka! Houston is a challenging rose climate. Hot and humid punctuated by surprise attacks of hail, Blue Northerns, hurricanes, floods and tornadoes! I grew up in Dallas but visited Houston off and on...(dramatic music)...in the summer. I also feel your husband's pain: Asian jasmine and trumpet vine in TX. A patch of neglected Asian jasmine once ripped off the bathroom window screen at my sister's house in Dallas! I think the hardy jasmine you mentioned might be Trachelospermum jasminoides, star jasmine? If so, I applaud you 100%! That's a great go-to fragrant vine for much of TX. I sent my mom a rooted cutting of Zeph for her Dallas garden, and it grew well there. I think Mom's rose lost about 50%-60% of its leaves during the hottest part of the year, but Zeph was pretty darn healthy (no spray except Safer fungicide) and grew fresh leaves when the temps cooled. Mom planted her Zeph in half day sun and grew a vine through the canes. Zeph rests for a longer summer stretch without blooming in TX, and your climate is getting hotter, so I agree that selecting a cultivar with more continuous bloom and foliage cover might be a wise choice for your preferences.. With training, Blush Noisette makes a charming, continuously blooming climber up to about 8' or so. It works well on an arch when 2 are planted, one on each side. The fragrance positively WAFTS in the evening. Humidity contributes to wafting so maybe BN is worth considering for Houston? For a large pergola, I'd plant a BN on one side and a yellow or white Lady Banks on the other. I'd train the Lady Banks up one side and across the top for a magnificent spring show with BN to carry on later in the season. Antique Rose Emporium sells both, but sometimes you have to jump in at the starting gate of restocking. They're popular! I'd call ARE and ask about blackspot tendencies in your area, and check on BN's resistance as well as inquiring about other Noisette possibilities. I'm a big fan of the fragrant, glorious Noisettes but only grow BN and MAC here in Portland. I've never grown Renae but have heard great things about it. I have a couple of baby Annie Laurie McDowells in my driveway pot nursery and am super excited about their inclusion in my garden! If you can get a ALM, and Kim Rupert gives it a thumbs up for your area and pergola, I'd absolutely hold out for her. The photos I've seen are breathtaking! Pure romance. Carol
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organicgardendreams
13 years ago
onederw, congratulation to acquiring a nice specimen of Zephirine Drouhin.

My experience with growing Zephirine Drouhin in zone 10, San Diego inland is a positive one, so really different from amandahuggs and hoobs. I definitively would give that rose a try.

I have my ZD for about 3 - 4 years now. In the beginning she was showing some powdery mildew and sometimes rust but never too bad, but with each year she became more healthier. The first two years she bloomed only once providing me with an awesome spring flush (this rose is soo... fragrant), but after that I got some occasional flowers in the summer and a little bit more blooms in autumn. I am very curious what my ZD will do this year. I expect her to become even better, since she has matured quite a bit. If you want to see pics of her, please go to my blog by clicking on the link below. I put up a post about pruning climbing roses on February, the 12th, were you can see my specimen of ZD.

I have mine in a location where Queen Anne Palm fronds are shading her part of the day and ZD seems to like it. So regarding your question where to place her I would choose the location by the trellis with morning sun and afternoon shade.

Good luck with yours!

Christina

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams
onederw
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks, everyone. An optimist at heart, for the moment I'll choose to believe that my experience with Zeffy will be more like Christina's than like Amanda's. Christina -- I envy you your rose fountains! Sounds like a very commonsensical way to approach growing climbers.

Kay
organicgardendreams
13 years ago
Kay, optimism is always a good thing :-)! And in case Zephi is not doing that great in your yard, you just can replace her with another climbing rose, but then you are sure if you can grow her successfully or not.

Rose fountains!? I like that. May I borrow that phrase from you in the future? I don't know if my pruning approach is "commonsensical" (I like that creation, too ;-)), but it is definitively the less-work-is-better gardener's take!

I am curious how your Zephi will be doing for you. Do you mind keeping us updated?

Christina

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams
onederw
Original Author
13 years ago
Happy to keep everyone up to date on Zeffy's progress, Christina. Bulletins from the front as they occur.
By all means, help yourself to "rose fountains" and "commonsensical." I myself plan on borrowing hoovb's description of Abraham Darby as being so rusty he looked like a "giant cheeto." In my garden, however, his cheeto-ness was what got Abe SPed this past December. There are other candidates, I'm sure, who will deserve the descriptor before the season is done.
Kay
kathleen777_comcast_net
12 years ago
I'm curious to know how your Zeffy is doing. I love this rose, having grown in successfully in Cincinnati and now Portland Or. I do get blackspot here in the NW, but I get several waves of blooms, so it's absolutely worth it. Oh, and the scent is heavenly. Zeffy fan for life!
jerijen
12 years ago
I've seen her in VA, where she was lovely -- but I've steered clear of her, here in Mildew Central. >:-(

Jeri
onederw
Original Author
12 years ago
Zeffy is happily growing. No mildew, but then again, no blooms either. I'm okay with that. I'm working on the hypothesis, perhaps mistaken, that a healthy, growing rose will bloom eventually.

Year 1: Sleep. Year 2: Creep. Year 3: Leap. For now, healthy and growing is enough for me. I'll be somewhat more demanding next year, and downright impatient the year after that.

Kay
buford
12 years ago
My ZD took a few years before she started blooming. I have BS, but not mildew issues. And she does like a bit of shade and tolerates it quite well.
ken-n.ga.mts
12 years ago
I bought a body bag ZD this past spring. Really didn't expect it to live. Well, it proved me wrong. This crazy bush has been going nuts from the get go. It has 7 canes that are 6' tall & growing with several more that are about 3' tall and filling the bush out very well. I don't expect any blooms this yr. But it is making a fantastic bush. If I get a few blooms next spring, I'll be a happy camper. The following yr is when I expect it to do it's thing. Only problem I can see is that it is on the south side of my house planted 2' from the house with all day sun. This area SHOULD make a great spring flush but I'm not sure what it will do for the rest of my growing season.
teakettle2
12 years ago
I heard so many wonderful things about this rose so when my nursery had one this spring (looked like they had it for a while) I bought it. Mine gets morning shade and afternoon sun (very hot here). First flush was beautiful and one cane is still blooming-just finished its second bloom. I hope she likes it here, because I am in love with this rose...

Placing a Zephirine Drouhin

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