my holidays won't change. I usually stay home alone with my pup. I also usually make a nice dinner for myself - I spread that over about 3 days of prep and cooking so on the 3rd day I just heat it up and eat. Sometimes I change it out and go over to my sister's and my BIL does all the cooking and I bring home leftovers but the last few yrs someone there has been sick so I did my usual and stayed home. so no difference this year.

but untruths need to be outed.

then the left needs called out more and more. I've noticed lately that it has been too. Several major names on the left announced they're supporting Trump.

WOW more and more the thing to do is pout and complain. It's really getting rather old. And please please please STOP with all the finger pointing!!! It's so very tacky!! What can you do that will make your holidays bright!? Perhaps if we start now by the time it rolls around some great ideas will emerge. A neighbor told how she and her grands all played BINGO via a zoom and had a great time...What you need to realize is many people have perfectly wonderful holidays and they have never traveled for had scads of money to afford opulent gift displays etc. Assuming "different" equals horrid is a sure way to have a humbug holiday.

What can you do that will make your holidays bright!?

Just listening to all the stuff Amylou does brightens my holiday! And some of the rest of you also, we together are greater than the sum of our parts.

Won't be all that different- at least in this thread. Ole uncle and auntie so-and-so with their usual petty crabby bickering while the rest of the fam tries to have a nice thread around that ill humor. Yep, just like a regular holiday, lol.

My sister and I were just having a discussion about this the other day. We came to the conclusion that we doubt we will ever again see life as it was before COVID 19. First, there is no end in sight, too many major changes in lifestyle and income have occurred and close personal contacts with anyone outside of one's bubble may well be a thing of the past.

We just need to rethink how we celebrate holidays going forward and get used to whatever the new normal is going to be. I am just pretty darn certain it is not going to be anything like it was.

"Several major names on the left announced they're supporting Trump."

Who are these major left names?

One thing I hope never returns to pre-Covid normal is the invisibility of our country's supply system and the everyday people who make it work. Not only the migrants who pick our crops but the truckers, warehouse workers, store clerks who enable the rest of us to shop easily for anything and everything a first-world citizen could possibly need or desire.

For cheap. We've had it so good for so long.

Something has got to change.

I'm sure there will be one person celebrating his holiday on his golf course in Florida. As for me, I haven't really celebrated holidays in years so the day will be no different than any other day of the week. As long as my work is not shut down, I will be there for the holidays as always and then I will come home and spend the evening with my cat. I like the holidays but I just don't bother with decorations and all the hubbub and to do that goes with it.

What annoys me is:

millions of people wait for hours in line just to get tested and our president gets tested every other day.

If some people don't have the foresight to stand that wearing a mask is vitally important to curbing this virus. They are afraid of losing their freedom but not their life. So, and JMO, those who catch it through their own stupidity (Going without mask or social distancing) get no sympathy from me.

Even though I am not one to celebrate the holidays, I think in a way that there may be one bright spot to all of this. Perhaps the simplicity of the holidays will show there is much more to the day then how much you spend and how many presents you buy.

Lars, I agree with everything you have said on this thread.

We decided not to have a family Easter Dinner this year, BUT we did do a family Anniversary/Birthday/Stampede breakfast a few weeks ago. It was held in my backyard and all the cooking was done on our fire pit. Everyone was able to safely social distance. We only came into the house to make coffee or use the washroom. Depending on how Calgary is doing come Thanksgiving (In Canada that's in October), we may be able to have family dinner indoors. Our Covid cases here are VERY small (412 known live cases today out of 1.4 million people in this city), so I'm really not that concerned about it. My kids all social distance and are very vocal if you get into their space. As of today, masks in all public buildings and transportation is mandatory in Calgary so I hope these numbers come down some more. We will see how this works in the coming weeks. I know younger people are still having parties and I've been on Snap Chat and see too many people having large family indoor gatherings on the "stories" feed.

I'm sure there will be one person celebrating his holiday on his golf course in Florida.

Your point is?

millions of people wait for hours in line just to get tested and our president gets tested every other day.

And, when you become president, you'll be tested every other day, too, whether you want to or not, I suspect.

I have tried my best to completely ignore the holidays as much as I possibly can for many years now. I am no fan of the shopping season. Thanksgiving is OK, but I will never do a turkey ever again. We had the very best time with our extended family a couple of years ago and the memories are still warm and quite fuzzy.

So, for us, it all changed a good while ago.

The shopping season had become a disgusting display of lack of common sense. But, I do have some young grandchildren and I had hoped that they could experience some of the childhood magic that I do remember. Beyond the magic that the young kids might get from it, the rest I could certainly do without.

I haven't done a tree or decorating for years now. I don't see any point in it. No cookies either. No one needs all that. I guess if I had the little ones near me, I would do just a few for their sake.

When we were kids, the very few things that we got at the holidays were of note. Now, so many kids have so darned much that it is lost in a big mess. So, I am conflicted about contributing to that. I am trying to work it all out and just. not sure, of much.

I always wished the shopping season holiday would go away, but not like this.

Aside from a couple of conflicts I have as pertains to the little ones, I won't be missing anything.

Some people put such store in the holidays. It is not going to be a good year for them.

The general upset in the public has consequences on our national psyche. That worries me. People pour such sentiment into the holidays. It will be so distorted this year. More upset in the general population is not good. Neither do we need the misplaced sentiment. We need to keep a cool and reasoned mind about us at this time.

I really do believe that we are in a lull before it all comes tumbling down.

I also have a strong sense of what and who is to blame for much of this and feel quite bitter towards them. The virus is a act of god, so to speak. But the political and social turmoil that we are in has a human element and a face, and faces, behind it.

Many things have changed, for good. Many things have gone away, for good.

The general upset in the public has consequences on our national psyche.

Adversity can bring out the best in people. Perhaps the general tendency for may toward apathy will be shaken, and replaced with a desire to help. There will be plenty of opportunity to help, from sharing extra stuff from gardens to offering a helping hand. Oldsters could step in offering comfort and wisdom as a family friend if grandparents are lost to Covid.

A traditional Thanksgiving can take up almost a whole week with a huge meal and then shopping and then TV sports. I can easily see how in the rush there may be no opportunity to share real feelings. Perhaps, trying to focus on using new found time as opportunities to do good will be the gift each of us can give to the future.

"Several major names on the left announced they're supporting Trump."

Who are these major left names?

the only 2 I remember right off are Vance Jones and Leo Terrell. I don't write down the names and I sure don't remember them all. I count my day good if I remember the names of my kids and gkids! I've been hearing of maybe 2 a wk? one of the last ones was a dem in congress - tho it might have been his state congress. in the last 2 days I saw a clip of a CNN host and his guest was a dem (politically known) who supported Trump.

Adversity can bring out the best in people. Perhaps the general tendency for may toward apathy will be shaken, and replaced with a desire to help.

I've seen so much of that on our local news and it is so heart warming! even young kids trying to help out others. that is a very good thing.

I have seen too many to count republicans who are even working against trump spinning out ads by the hundreds in the Lincoln project. Most of Bush's people are in it, Colin Powell, Tom Ridge, Steve Schmidt,George Conway, George Will, and a gazillions others.

The sooner people start behaving responsibly, the sooner things can get back to normal. But this does require patience. It's not about "haves" vs "have nots" - it is about everyone in this together.

this is so true, but so many people are all about the 'me' in their life. the one they see in a mirror.

I'm sure holidays were much different during WWI and II. my holidays growing up were lean, but I didn't know that then. and it was usually only the 5 of us at home. My kids didn't get as much as most other kids (even my nieces/ nephews). they got more than enough with 3 gmas and an uncle who bought for them. I did what my mom did, when the gkids got to a certain age I stopped buying for them. I stopped when they got to about 12. in the past few yrs I just plain stopped. They all get way too much already. last yr I sent the 3 youngest each some money (not much by today's standards) but the kids were thrilled. My 12 yo gson was so happy. he'd wanted to treat his dad and his little brother to ice cream on Father's Day and what I sent him for his BD gave him the $s to do that. I was happy he used it to treat others rather than just on himself.

Hehehe, and the cousins that just can't not talk politics, even for a little while. This indeed is like a regular holiday in this thread!

I joke.. but it does put me in mind of a few holidays when I was a kid and multiple families got together. There weren't a lot of them- but they all sure were interesting.

We've always done big holiday gatherings, but not this year. We may not physically be together, but protecting one another from this horrible virus is the best gift we can give each other, so that we CAN celebrate next year!

If this thread is any indication of how some of you live your family life, lots of people like me would be happy not to spend the holidays with you.

We have several relatives in their 70's and 80's. We didn't get to visit last Christmas because of a sick child. This Christmas would be difficult because of the pandemic. So we made a socially distanced visit this summer. Ate in the vehicle on the drive, had homemade wet wipes and hand sanitizer in the vehicle for every stop. Hotels were almost ghost towns. Most didn't serve their usual breakfasts or snacks. There were rules for riding the elevators. We ate on the empty outside patio of a restaurant in one meeting with family. We met at a state park and sat at a picnic table for a meeting with my family. I didn't get to hug my dad, but we got to see each other. We met with family on the patio and had takeout for the last part of the trip.

I had made masks and gave a few out. I made some more and mailed them afterwards.

We don't need a lot of Christmas gifts around here. We've been trying to help out other people as we can. Helping others should be an everyday thing. We'll probably give a bit extra at Christmas.

"the only 2 I remember right off are Vance Jones and Leo Terrell."

These aren't major names.

If you want to see major names who have crossed parties, look at lily316's post just above. And there are and will be many, many more.

I'm a political junkie and I've never heard of either of those two men. I know Van Jones but I haven't heard he's voting for Trump.

I never heard of those two either but if she meant VAN Jones...ha. He'd cut off his ear before he'd vote for him.

We shrank our Christmas Eve gathering a few years ago when life events became overwhelming for me as hostess, so I don't need to make any great change this year. Except... There are a couple of family members we would always include, even if on the spur of the moment, and we will have to wait and see how it all plays out in a few months.

I used to receive and give hand-made gifts for Christmas. This might do very much to help our consumerist economy, but it does a lot to foster good relationships. Maybe we can get back to this kind of mindset. If you cannot make a gift yourself, then you can get someone you know who can help you with this.

I know a lot of businesses rely on the Christmas for a large part of their revenue, and I fear that his will be decreased significantly this year. Since a lot of products are made in China, this may hurt China more than it is the U.S., and a lot of products that one normally gets from China may be in short supply this year.

Bottom line: plan your gift giving very early this year - Thanksgiving might be too late, and after that, you will most likely have fewer options than usual.

My sister's birthday is at the end of August, and I will be making masks for her for that! This was my brother's idea, but I'm going along with it. I couldn't think of what else to make for her. I might make her a nightgown for Christmas - I know she likes those, and I think I already have the fabric for it.

My daughter and I were discussing Halloween. She thinks more areas will use Trunk n Treat. She does prefer it. It is easier than the kids walking up and down the hills and house steps. I never did get any trick or treaters, because of my location. But I go to my daughter's or son's house to see them. I do decorate the out and inside. And will do so this year.

The holiday parties for the kids will probably be missing this year. They really look forward to those. The shrine we belong to is having bands in the pavilion so maybe they can do the kids parties there. It will be a little cold, but we can bundle up. Currently as long as you have under 250 people you can hold an outdoor event.

I always try to get my granddaughters Christmas shopping done before Thanksgiving. After then the toys get slim pickens.

Thanksgiving and Christmas will be a family celebration as usual.

Holidays, sigh. I think that my son won't be home for Thanksgiving as planned. He lives in Germany, and was supposed to be here now for his sister's wedding, which was canceled, so they changed their flights to Thanksgiving. I really miss him. At least I can see my DD.

I guess some of those people who wouldn't be "muzzled" are now on board with it?

I haven't been to a large family gathering since my dad died in 1968. The rest of the family have since passed on also. It never was a big family anyway. I lived the life of a hermit before covid and nothing has changed for me. My big excitement currently is the farrier is coming tomorrow.

Lars, there comes a time when it might be obvious that there is little need for this or that. It matters not if the gift is hand made, or not. There just is no need for it.

I don't mean to disrespect your gift giving or your comment . Please don't read that into my comments.

My only point is that so many of the things that we give and receive there is really no need for. There are many people in real need, but mostly it is not these kinds of things that we give as gift that they are needing. Mostly, we are not giving needed things to the folks who really need them.

I thought, too, of making some old fashioned pjs for my little ones as part of the gift giving this years. Not that they really need them, but neither of them has even known a real old fashioned garment like that. They live in knit pjs and pants and t-shirts. Which is fine. Real cotton pjs would be a novelty for them. And, growing kids always need bigger and more clothes.

I feel so confused and conflicted about so many things right now.

DallasAnnie, cotton pjs sound like the perfect gift. Made with love, and useful. I believe that difficult economic times are ahead, and well made useful clothes will be welcome.

I think maybe this pandemic will reset our ideas on overspending, and needless frivolity over the holidays. Maybe life will return to the more simple times when just being with family is the big gift.

OMGosh! I started reading this to see how some of you expected what your holidays were going to be like and see some have turned it into a political bashing!...some things never change! Can’t you just give it up or take your insults to Hot Topics where others enjoy rudeness? JMHO

Sure, good idea. Future social plans can't hardly be considered in the face of the health crisis that continues to be criminally mismanaged as if it were a political problem and that will go on indefinitely until that changes? Suggestions?

Without it being taken seriously, people will remain under stay in place guidance until then. Suggestions?

There was a news story today about a Delta flight that had to return to the gate in Detroit because two passengers refused to wear masks. Suggestions?

Politicians are not issuing orders and guidelines to bring the crisis to an end and stop the needless deaths and suffering. Suggestions?

For a starter, you could stop your reply after the word “crisis”....the rest of your post was not necessary!

I don't live in a fairy-tale land and neither do you or anyone else. Our problems have an identifiable cause and mitigating steps are well known. But they're not being followed right now.

Reality is what it is. People are getting increasingly frustrated with the ineptness and absence of leadership. That's what's needed to give those who celebrate Christmas (and many don't), a Merry Christmas. And for others, a safe return to normal life.

The topic is holiday plans. Do you have an approach to suggest so that people can make holiday plans?

Crickets. Apparently she's advocating the ostrich approach. That doesn't work.

Sadly phoggie, 45 has made almost every move into political discussion. If you don’t listen to the news, or to his statements, that is fine. But you really can not pretend that politics is not a part of life here in the US.

Elmer, you expected an answer after 30 minutes???? (Re your "Crickets." comment. 30 minutes after your previous question.)

Desertsteph: "Several major names on the left announced they're supporting Trump."

Who are these major left names?

"the only 2 I remember right off are Vance Jones and Leo Terrell."

Um, steph - Never heard of Vance Jones nor Leo Terrell, and since they're obviously not "major names", unlike the Republican major names about NOT to vote Trump - no interest in looking them up. Personally, given our choices, I'd prefer to vote for The Cat in the Hat - but I just can't be party to inflicting Trump back on the populace this November.

Wildchild: I am sorry you got out of the wrong side of the bed the days you left your posts. I hope you are feeling better.

Holidays going to be different: (The original topic here)

Yes, they will. For myself: I live alone and I haven't travelled to see family half the country away (Chicago or Florida) for a bunch of years. For me, that won't be changing. I hate holiday season travel, and I hate Thanksgiving football, so I much rather see family when times are less hectic and we can be more few-on-one - much more sane for an introvert, especially since we DO live so far apart and the joy at seeing them means I don't want to meet ALL their neighbors at the same time. I plan still to put up Halloween décor (even though I live in a community of around 500 people), and I still plan to put up a tree and some other winter holiday / Christmas decorations, probably more so than last year.

If the post office dies a brutal death by asphyxiation, I will seriously miss sending and getting Christmas cards. Those were always moments of joy. That's a service that need NOT go away, even with COVID. E-cards, frankly, are not the same.

As I live alone, my bubble is indeed small. I have always enjoyed getting together with friends for Thanksgiving - one set of friends that Thursday and another the following Saturday, good convo and no annoying football. Four of us used to get together on Christmas day the past few years - located back down where I used to live in Connecticut. I don't see that happening, either. Yes, I'll connect with family via the phone and perhaps even Zoom during the holidays (the phone was usual anyway - none of us knew about Zoom, if it even existed, in the past.)

On a broader picture: With unemployment as it is, a lot of holidays will be more sparse for a lot of people. Even as people may be re-entering the work force, they'll have back bills to settle, and thus gifts will be smaller. Hopefully home-made gifts and planned-carefully day trips as gifts to children can be more common. There may be less Chinese-made stuff available for toys - again some creativity needed. Big dinners with huge tom turkeys will be a thing in decline. (Hey, roaster chickens actually DO taste better!)

Not sure what the future holds, but austerity and economic tightening sounds certain. For those with their families in their social and physical-location bubble, this can be a positive thing - assuming one is not one of many who live in dysfunctional families. Yes, you can't always do, or have, everything you want. That's not a bad thing to learn, actually. What is really sad is the distancing from the elders in our populations, either because they are in facilities, or if still in their homes - fear of infecting them with COVID (along with anything else). For some, this may be the last, or next to last, holiday seasons they may experience.

I will note that it is a true human NEED and NECESSITY to be around other people we love, care, and connect with. Even for us introverts.

artemis, she responded to my comment in about 15 minutes but then apparently went on a walkabout. She's done that before (not just with me) with questions having obvious answers she doesn't want to face.

Best wishes for a holiday season to your liking.

(PS, as far as free video calling is concerned, Skype has offered that for more than 10 years and still does. Skype works on all device types, Iphone/pad and Android, Win PCs and Macs. Google has an offering too, also on all platforms and Chromebooks. Apple's video software FaceTime is also about that old. So, lots of choices )

Wildchild: I am sorry you got out of the wrong side of the bed the days you left your posts. I hope you are feeling better.

I do like your last above post about the holidays. But apparently once again you missed all the insults and the delusional rants directed at me. Did you read my first post on this thread? Apparently that triggered Mr. Know It All's sensitivity. Funny how all those insults are removed. My responses stay because I own my words unlike the coward who has been stirring the pot at every chance he gets.

Bad day? Don't mistake my standing up to a bully as a bad day. Both DH and I found his posts (missing now) quite amusing. Two people called me a liar. I am still waiting for them to produce the evidence. Crickets indeed. In real life they wouldn't dare say the things they do to my face. But if you want to call standing up for myself a bad day that is OK. LOL

Other people may turn the other cheek to this disturbed individual's actions. I don't do that. Not when called out by name over and over. He even ranted at another poster the other day calling her me. LOL He has a bad case of WDS, Wildchild Derangement Syndrome. Most of the time I SOB. But giving someone tit for tat is simply a small part of my day. Like most of us I have the time, so hitting back is not a big energy draw. Bullies need to be confronted. In real live he would learn his lesson. On the internet he is safe to virtually beat up on elders like he did on Glenda. Lucky him he has the internet to spew his nonsense. In real life he would have to face real consequences.

Back to the holidays. Our family doesn't make a huge deal of them. It's all about the grand kids. We are close enough to be in some sort of contact on a regular basis. Out Xmas has never been celebrated on actual Xmas day for years. The only thing different for this year is maybe not seeing each other in one room together and having a meal together.

I will be so busy until Thanksgiving I wont have much time to think about holidays. I have a virtual horse race to do. The riding will be very real, but the tracking will virtual. A hundred miles of riding through beautiful forest trails with "my" opinionated chestnut mare. Hopefully with a few obstacles tossed in. Who could ask for better? Never did I expect this opportunity in my lifetime. It's actually a silver lining in the storm clouds of this virus.

Wow, this thread really is reminding me of some of the less fortunate big holidays of my yesteryears. Not joking this time, yikes.

Anywho.. around here the holidays won't be that much different than usual. We are a smaller gathering family, and have been for years. Distance issues make traveling for the holidays in general are problematic. It's all good.

Like Lars, our family often makes stuff for each other. And gifts each other with stuff to make stuff with, lol. Yarn and spices, soap making stuff and recipes, homemade trinkets. Most of us tend to be pretty thrifty too, and often gift second hand stuff we find on random while out and about.

We all mail stuff to each other a lot anyway, so that won't change. But something that has come up and I'll mention here with the sending of holiday cards... either use self-adhesive envelopes or remember to use a damp sponge to wet dry envelopes. A lotta people lick their envelopes- might be a wisdom to not do that this year. Also with mailing- plan on sending packages early if you can, regardless of service used. The holidays are usually swamped, and with C-19 still going on, it likely to be heavier than usual this holiday season.

I agree with one of the above posters that holiday gatherings are often too hectic to be the best. I alway encourage a non holiday visit because there is not the intense focus on making it into something that it really is not, or making it the "most wonderful time of the year". Blech!

I used to get so wrapped up in this nonsense that I, literally, made myself sick and I hated every minute of it.

I stopped doing that and it was one of the best things that I have ever done for myself.

Last holiday passed almost unnoticed by me and I can live with that.

Lars, about the kids going to school.....it is not just the school year that has been disrupted, it is the entire infrastructure of the modern family and the community that they live in and the country that they live in. It amounts to a bit more than a sabbatical when so much shuts down. A sabbatical is usually a deliberate action taken for the benefit of who ever it is that is doing it. This situation is not that. People don't work ,business fails, families fall apart, people lose their homes, their careers and their resources. All of that has dire consequences. You know what is going on, I am sure.

Children miss so much when they can't go to school...so very, very much!!!. I have one grandchild who is a senior this year, one going into the third grade and one who was to start kindergarten. For each of these kids it is missing out on all of the extra curricula that they fill their social lives and build their education and their peer group. Many are isolated in their homes and are missing socialization that the kids generally learn from their communities and close families. Their parents have been stretching themselves thin to do their best and to keep on working and bringing in a living. Parents never expected to be both teacher and bread earner and total care giver. That is not the pattern of modern family life. Like it or find fault with it, it is so. Everything has fallen out from under them, suddenly and without warning. It is so stressful, and devastating to many.

There is no such thing as a sabbatical for an entire country and its economy and families. This is neither voluntary nor to the benefit of anyone. Your expressed views lead me to think that, perhaps, you are not raising children or grandchildren or supporting a family or investing in their future, as are so many others. I don't mean disrespect. That is just what it sounds like, to me.

Children miss so much when they can't go to school...so very, very much!!!

Educating children is important, as is socialization. But I am thinking that throughout the long history of humanity prior to our modern concept of a building full of teachers and students open at defined times for a defined number of days a week, one way or another, both the educating and the socialization still got done.

Parents never expected to be both teacher and bread earner and total care giver. That is not the pattern of modern family life.

Historically, until fairly recently , maybe a couple/three generations, many times the mother stayed home with the children, and the family included grandparents, or other situations where there was not a nuclear family with both parents working.

And if you go back far enough farm/store was a FAMILY business. Family lived on the property where the store/farm was, children were raised helping, being supervised but many adults. I was blessed to be raised and raise my children in the decades where prosperity allowed one adult to provide child care while one provided income for all. I and mine thrived with in these priorities which is why our holidays will be much the same. We will gather as always, we will share some meals, play some games, ENJOY and cherish our time together.

children were raised helping,

I can certainly see that raising children to do their part in helping the family is not only an important part of socialization, but one that is missing in some modern families.

I sometimes wonder if a return to extended family with the grandparents in the home or close nearby might strengthen families and communities.

I was supposed to have exchange students for the holidays this year. I actually grew pumpkins in my garden so we could carve them together. As with everything this year the pumpkin got attacked and only has one growing on the vine. It survived but looks stunted. I did replant but not sure it will do anything in time. Not that it matters now. I may just give the pumpkin to one of the neighborhood kids.

Thanksgiving would probably be spent at work but would have had a nice dinner one day near that date. I work most holidays because that's my job, holidays, evenings, weekends and nights. My daughter was planning on spending it in Rhode Island where she and her girlfriend just moved to with her girlfriend's parents. My son might have come down here but not sure. He is still doing flight training for his job and because all of his training took so long he will then have to do upgrade training so he can test for staff sergeant. The virus is spreading so unsure of what their travel restrictions will be.

I took Christmas week off for the first time in many years. Normally school is out for about 2 weeks during this time, through the new year. My daughter is planning to come home not sure about my son. It may just be me and I'm okay with that.

This discussion makes me wonder how we'll adjust to the changing seasons. At the outset of the pandemic in the northern hemisphere, spring was arriving -- and the virus had yet to demonstrate how virulent and lethal it is.

Can we manage without the reassuring Dark Season celebrations -- Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas? Will we be unsettled without accustomed reminders that the earth will not stay barren forever...against the proof of our eyes throughout the dark winter?

This past Sunday we spent three hours (unmasked) on our screened porch with DS, DIL, DGS and DGD. We were masked when closer than six feet, and when DS and DGS spent a few minutes helping with some household chores. We can't do that after October, if then.