Who are you buying them from? If it's a large independent dealer, you should be able to do just as well getting the appliances you want rather than the "packages" which are designed by the makers to make you think you have to stick with them so make them more money. Most appliance stores have a discount for contractors and interior designers. Usually the same percentage (10-20% depending on local custom, usually more in the 10-15% range). Sometimes, there will be more for one or the other group because of connections, volume, promotion, whim etc. Since you're doing a major remodel and looking at mid- to high- end appliances, I'm thinking you have at least a general contractor, or maybe a plumber/gc. Even if you don't, since you're buying a whole suite of appliances, the store may give you the contractor's discount anyway. If that isn't possible, you still have negotiating room. While the store may be locked into fairly narrow contracted price floors (as if they were selling fine art!), they have other ways they can give you discounts. They can give you a free dishwasher, for instance (a common occurrence), and/or free delivery and/or installation. They may also pay for an extended warranty, though those aren't worth nearly as much, dollar for dollar, as something tangible. They're more for emotional support. So, given that, I'd choose SZ/Wolf or Thermador. Thermador may cost less (depending on exchange) and it's fine. Wolf has great ovens, but there are a few potential problems (I think the jury is still out on whether they've 100% beaten an issue with the enamel). I prefer the layout of the SubZero refrigerators. If you're getting gas, I love the Wolf double stacked burners. I prefer Thermador's dishwasher to the Asko, which is what I think you get with SZ/W. That's without even considering Miele, Liebherr, BlueStar ranges, etc.

I second looking at the Bosch benchmark. I liked the controls on the Bosch and the Wolf. They both seemed to do a good job recognizing small pots on large burners. I don’t own either but I have tested displays. I really disliked the Thermador Freedom. Reasons are: 1) I had trouble getting controls to react when I pressed them. The gaggenau version was worse. Even the salesmen had trouble. 2) Limited to four pots/pans. Most 36 inch cooktops allow 5. 3) it is not as free as you expect. If I recall, there are limits to how many items you can put on one side. If you turn up the heat on one item, it turns down heat on the other behind your back. Other cooktops have these restrictions also, but they are explicit. Here they are implicit which makes it very confusing whenthings don’t work or you discover 15 minutes later the water you set to boil is only simmering..... I have seen reports of problems with Miele controls but I have not tested them myself. This was several years ago when the 42 inch first came out. I love the idea of a 42 inch induction cooktop but I also think it’s too risky when only one manfacuturer makes one that size. I found the Bosch flexinduction cooktop the most flexible followed by the Wolf. Caveat: I tested these out several years ago. I don’t know what improvements/changes manufacturers have made since then.

Ccwatters, I’m glad you are not offended. I thought when you said “picking my comments apart and arguing each ” and characterized others posts as “speculative” that you were. Even your last comment about “criticism” has that connotation. Good to know you aren’t. Yes, you did thank both of us and others, but when I said “ask follow up questions” I meant asking specific questions of the people who posted, especially the new owner. I do understand asking for newer reviews. Sometimes people comment about a brand they have had for 15 years when there have been several model changes so the comment is no longer valid. The Wolf M is in the sweet spot of a fair amount of threads and no real changes. Wolf is in kind of a conundrum. They can’t really admit to the chipping problem, yet they made the bottom replaceable. If you have read all the threads about the chipping and uneven browning and were assured, then you made the best decision for you. If you don’t have that browning on the sides, that is wonderful. I always take people at their word as to what they say happens in their own kitchen and this is also why the posts about uneven browning concern me. I just post to bring awareness to the issues reported here that you will not hear about by anyone marketing a product, and people can make their own decision. I’m aware of how the message system works but I believe comments need to be public as they may benefit someone down the line reading this as a later point.

I apologize if this is in the wrong thread as this may be my first houzz thread post. Mostly a silent observer but I'm in need of some advice. We're starting a kitchen remodel in July and I've been agonizing over the stove/fridge. First things first, I'm not dead set on matching all of the appliances. I'm a firm believe in best of breed and as some others have posted above means buying different things from different companies. Here's what were planning on installing in the new kitchen: 48 inch stove with dual ovens, we're not splitting the ovens and range top. A 36 inch fridge, was thinking built in but if there are other options to consider I'm game. A dishwasher and perhaps a drawer microwave. I've been waning a Blue Star stove for the longest time but I've now read enough threads here to make me question that. Are they truly that problematic? Between tales of the convection fan turning off when the gas is going in the oven to the horrible customer service, is that really the experience people have had? They look beautiful. I'm more of a no-frills kind of guy and believe that simpler is better and lasts longer. I have a friend with a 20 year old blue start hat has had exactly two things break on it in 20 years: an igniter and a rack clip. That's it. Has the company gone down hill? What attracted me to the blue star was the insane BTU and configuration of using a griddle/grill on any of the burners. The circular grates for a wok are also attractive in my head and purely functional. However the reviews and one appliance store salesman have made me question wether this is a good investment. Originally we had been planning on a built in fridge from BS and the Platinum 48" Stove. So now that I've been reading a bunch more I'm wondering if perhaps I shouldn't consider WOLF or Miele. Between the two which would you choose? Thermador is a contender but Miele seems to have some nice features. As I said I prefer no frills, but it seems that outside of the BlueStar most of the other brands incorporate a bunch of new features and technologies. Before you ask, we do all kinds of cooking. My wife bakes and I do everything sous vide cooking in a circulator bath to low and slow braising, high heat searing of animal proteins, pretty much everything. I always figured that at this level and this price point most of these unites would be fairly bullet proof and last for a good long time. I hadn't really thought about the customer service aspect of purchasing something so pricey but it occurs to me now that perhaps I should. Are there any brands besides Thermador, Miele, Wolf and Blue Star to consider that deliver similar performance or are in that same class? Someone suggested Heston but I wasn't thrilled with what i saw or read about them. Thank you in advance for your thoughts. Cheers.