A business owner puts his all into making their business a success. It is their bread and butter. It is their employees bread and butter. They conduct their business to satisfy their needs and the needs of the customer. It is their right if they feel to be able to run a successful business that muzzles are required, there should be no derogatory comments to the owner or customers. A customer has the right to shop elsewhere if they don't like the business rules.

This also hold true for the business that feels to satisfy their needs and the needs of the customer have the right to require no muzzles and they and the customers should also be free of derogatory comments. A customer has the right to shop elsewhere if they don't like the rules.

I did a curbside pick-up of my grocery order this morning, and for the few minutes I waited in my car I observed people coming in and out of the store. Most of the women wore masks. Most of the men did too, but they were more likely than the women to go without.

I was parked next to a beer store. The middle-aged male clerk stood in the doorway talking with his middle-aged male customer. They appeared to be less than a foot apart. Both wore masks . . . on their necks.

Lucille, that is just it. If you don't like it then don't shop there. It is your choice. It is their business, their rules. Majority of shop, restaurant and tavern owners have the customers safety in mind. If not they would close due to lack of repeat business.

Muzzle - a device, usually an arrangement of straps or wires, placed over an animal's mouth to prevent the animal from biting, eating, etc. Yep, muzzle it is .

I went to Tractor Supply today to get seeds. I ran in and out in a few minutes and there were only a few people there. No one wearing masks except for one employee. The guy checking me out had one but it was pulled down. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with it sooner or later.

We have a bunch more new people working in our area, including a guy who can't wear a mask so they sent him to us. We are now crammed in together like sardines, in a basement office. 3 new day shift people who work in our area and leave when we come in, so there is a crossing of paths depending on how early we all are to work. We're also getting 2 other nurses, coming from other areas. I have no idea where they're going to put them. Daily Covid 19 cases are increasing in our hospital including employees.

I'm sure there are more cases in our little town but most people just aren't getting tested. Surrounding counties are increasing considerably. Everything is opening back up again just the same.

A person wearing a mask, to protect others in case s/he's ill and hasn't yet become aware ... can talk, though slightly muffled.

A dog, muzzled so it/he/she can't bite, as may have in the past, finds it hard to bark, also, doesn't s/he/t?

Would that those who refer to masking as muzzling would follow that part of the restriction, as well, or muffle the bark a bit, at least?

ole joyful

Nicely said, OJ.

Muzzle - a device, usually an arrangement of straps or wires, placed over an animal's mouth to prevent the animal from biting, eating, etc. ETC. A muzzle is not inclusive to stopping an animal from barking or biting. A human muzzle also prevents speech. Yes, there are human muzzles. That is what some politicans would like you to be . Good little silent non questioning followers. What is intolerable, is that maskers think it is their way only and are abusive and crude, but the non muzzlers respects that it is your choice if you want to wear one or not. Just because it is your opinion and is right for you doesn't make it right for everyone. I have no problem with anyone wearing a mask or a store owner requiring one. It is their right and choice. But the same respect should be extended to a person or business who doesn't require a muzzle.

A shop owner looking out for the health of herself and her customers is positive. A shop owner interested more in $ and who doesn't give a damn as long as you spend is not someone I'd respect or patronize.

I guess all the medical professionals who wear masks to protect their patients are misguided and are allowing themselves to be "muzzled" for no good reason. Who knew?

The whole muzzle thing is just odd...

Either the people using the term are referring to themselves as unsocialized mongrels too untrustworthy to be allowed in public freely like dogs- or they are referring to themselves as a submissive that wants to be dominated like BDSM- or referring to themselves as cannibalistic with the necessity of a muzzle and being institutionalized for the safety of themselves and the public like Hannibal Lecter.

I realize some folks aren't in favor of wearing a mask, but the use of the word muzzle is an unfortunate choice of word to express that. It denotes more about how the people that use the word muzzle view themselves rather than anything else. I'm not entirely sure what would be a better word for the notion being expressed, perhaps gagged or restrained? But muzzle is an ill choice.

^^ I don't think "muzzle" denotes how the people who use it to replace the word "mask" see themselves. I think it is meant as a put-down to express how they see those of us who choose to wear masks.

^^ yeah but we're rubber and they're glue so whatever they say bounces off of us and sticks to them. (That sounded so much better on the playground, lol.)

^^ yeah but we're rubber and they're glue so whatever they say bounces off of us and sticks to them. (That sounded so much better on the playground, lol.)

Yeah, It does sound real infantile.

^^ I don't think "muzzle" denotes how the people who use it to replace the word "mask" see themselves. I think it is meant as a put-down to express how they see those of us who choose to wear masks.

Wrong, it is nether. As I have stated before ( but you conveniently forget) I don't have any problem with anyone wearing a mask. It is their choice. The majority of anti maskers don't have a problem with it. Sorry, we didn't fall for the "assume everyone is infected". Not everyone is infected. "One size fits all" does not fit everywhere in the US when it comes to this or any virus. We see people as human beings and should be treated as such. They are not a virus, dz, or a illness.

Human muzzles have been used to silence, degrade, enslave, disgrace, or control people. It is how we view having to wear the mask that is mandated. Our governor (PA) is trying his hardest to keep us his peasants . The governor has really let this power go to his head. He is losing his control and is trying every trick in the book to keep us subservient. He and the secretary of health has lied repeatedly to us and committed senior genocide. There is many lawsuits against him and the secretary of health from businesses to elected officials. Just this week both the PA house and senate voted to suspend his emergency declaration he just renewed again. It is in our constitution that when voted on by both and once filed (done) it is immediately effective. By law he has to sign it and can not veto it. This POS refuses to sign and is in violation of our constitutional law. He is dragging it out taking it to our supreme court. We have the three ruling bodies as a check and balance of power. The governor thinks he is king and has absolute power.

^^ Wearing masks is mandated for health professionals. I seriously doubt they feel enslaved or controlled. Maybe some of them will post their point of view.

kadefol We are not talking about health professionals. Yes, during some procedures and treatments they do wear masks. We are talking about the general public, not a profession. So with your reasoning just because health professionals sometimes wear masks, everyone should have to wear a masks. So since employees of McDonalds have to wear a uniform, then everyone should have to wear a McDonalds uniform. So since race car drivers have to wear a helmet, then everyone should have to wear a helmet.

I am referring to the mandate that health care professionals, such as those who work in various outpatient medical settings, are now required to wear masks to help prevent the spread of Covid-19. For example, everyone at my recent eye appointment was masked, including the receptionists. The same goes for dentists, dermatologists, etc.

Those who refuse to wear a mask are making a political statement. They have rallied around this type of ignorant behavior and embrace it as their mantra.

No, you can't fix it.

Right now, our only defense against this virus it to stop it's avenue of transmission or to let it run through our population and let only the strong survive. Our choice.............. it is going to take a while.

Kadefol, maybe this will help you understand the use of masks in the health care setting. It is for the illusion of safety. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1EoJkVn0xxmfBb6RNhasEb2XXM6E2Lr-p7YOMrvMFl9iMBwKPQLl96lIo

That was written 2 and a half months ago. Back when medical professionals were lying to save the few masks available at the time for the front line.

Sleevendog, that is the point. The article points out even in the beginning that the masks are an illusion. Health care professionals knows how and when masks are effective.

N95s filter only inhaled air, not exhaled air. Surgical masks are not designed to filter the small covid virus and don't filter exhaled air due to gaping. They are not form fitting to the face. Cloth mask can't filter the small covid virus through inhalation or exhaling. They are good at trapping any virus to your face, increasing your risk of infection.

The neighbouring city and counties have put a 'no mask, no entry' ruling for the shops and businesses. I agree with this.

Of course, there are those that think the rule doesn't apply to them. This weekend an idiot wanted to enter a store without a mask and the employee wouldn't let him, so he deliberately coughed on her.

Even without the covid, this is nothing short of immature behaviour by an imbecile.

Functionthenlook, I agree that all masks are not equal. A tightly-woven multi-layer cloth mask with a filter does offer more protection than a single layer cloth mask made from loosely woven material.

But I realize that nothing anyone wrote on this thread is going to change your
mind, just like nothing you wrote is going to change the minds of those
of us who will continue to wear masks and maintain distance. We are all
going to do what we feel is right for us.

remember a mask they say only keeps me from spreading to YOU so if I don't have anything to spread why should I have to wear one!?!? Frankly I think that train of thought is short sighted but it is the science at present....so TECHNICALLY only sick people should have to wear masks.

how do you know you have no virus to spread to others?

have you been tested? if you don't already have it, are you ok that others out there who might have it aren't wearing a mask and might pass it on to you?

I just saw one of these incidents caught on a cell phone. A woman walked into a bagel shop without a mask and caught the staff off-guard. She was angry and aggressive and walked over to the few customers and aggressively coughed on one. A lawyer interviewed says it is a criminal act if she says she has covid. Yet it is the law to wear one. It is posted at the door.

Those choosing to not wear a mask are so disturbingly selfish and socially irresponsible it is criminal. And uninformed.

You could pick up the virus on the way home from being tested if not following what is suggested.

Hundreds have posted their experience in print and y-tube. Most 8-10 weeks ago when doctors said no way did they have covid. (no testing was available)....then tested positive after out in public and traveling.

Function, after all this time and all these arguments, you and wild still stick to your (patently false) guns? Why?

I'm not surprised or that frustrated that some will continue to be clinging to old out of date information. Forming opinions months old about masks/muzzles. Like talking to a box of rocks or a moth.

Guessing they have no idea what viral load is. Spending too much time with a narrow internet only platform based on old data.

Single aerosols in the single digits under ten are a less viral load. Tiny particulates. They are the most likely to penetrate any mask. Most can handle a small viral load. Our immune systems can battle that easily. Those will be airborne. Aerosols. The fine mist that lingers. The heavier particulates hold a much denser viral load. Most fall heavier on surfaces but in close contact without masks can exhale from the carrier to an unmasked neighbor inhaling. Those larger particulates hold a much denser viral load by millions. They are likely to stick inside the carrier mask and difficult to penetrate a neighbors mask.

Both carrier and victim wearing a mask greatly reduces viral spread.

It is social curtesy and respect for your community/neighbors to do your part in stopping the suffering of those sensitive/immune compromised.

Basic quick easy to read link HERE

I am going out for a drive tomorrow with someone outside my home. We are allowed to have the same 10 people in our "bubble", no need to wear a mask or social distance but I will be wearing a mask because I live with an essential worker so I have to act like I could have the virus so I don't pass it on. My city is still in Stage 1, while most of our Province has moved on to Stage 2. This is because of the nurses and other essential workers that cross the border into the USA and come back home or vice versa. Our Government is taking things slow and only moving forward on the advice of Medical and Infectious Disease Control experts. I will gladly wear a mask to protect others and hopefully myself.

Function, Sleevendog wrote a coherent and factual post. You couldn't write a sensible reply because there is none, the facts about transmission are facts. Saying that someone has a 'differing mind set' is essentially saying that they are not working with the facts.

Insisting on a factual presentation in a critical health issue is not bullying.

Function, after all this time and all these arguments, you and wild still stick to your (patently false) guns? Why?

Because we don't believe they are "patently false". You do. I take the advice of my own doctors over what the media, politicians and public health number crunching data scientists say. It's not a political stance. It's a protect my health stance with common sense measures.

How many of you have asked your own personal physicians what they think about the effectiveness of the general public use of masks? Honestly? I think you would be surprised at their answers. I don't need the false security blanket of wearing a muzzle to feel safe. Especially when I see the stupid, unhealthy actions of many who do wear them. Keeping social distance in enclosed places, washing my hands frequently and going out and enjoying life is my doctor's advice. Directly. That is my first hand experience with a real doctor. My DH's other doctor agrees. Ask your own doctors.

But of course we are called liars. For daring to point out the truth because you all feel unsafe and want to believe in fairy dust.

The original recommendations were not lies because of a shortage. They were the truth. Medical masks have to be used properly and when appropriate. People slapping them on their faces and not following so much more procedure-wise does nothing. Decades of knowing what masks can and cannot do didn't suddenly change overnight.

I don't know what the reason was to change the recommendations. Maybe to make people feel safer, maybe to control the masses. But any fool can see that most people out there wearing "face coverings" are not helping one bit to not spread a virus. But then those of you who stay home don't see it. Then turn around and call those of us who are out there seeing the world in real time through our own eyes wrong. It's an upside-down world now.

Out of curiosity for those that will not or do not want to wear a mask..

Do you think men and women should be allowed topless at their discretion in public places like stores, gas stations, and restaurants? If so/not, why?

How about smoking? Should we go back to letting people smoke anywhere and everywhere they want--airplanes, restaurants, bars, etc. To heck with the health of others! Or should we continue to limit smoking to protect others?

Beesneeds, come to Ontario! It's legal to go topless, although I've never seen any women do it. Our license plates say, "Yours to discover" the standing joke is "Yours to uncover"

Wow, what a way to start the day. I've gone from rage in my brain to laughing at some of the replies and it's released some of my ongoing tension for the moment. For me, I will do all that I can for myself to stay alive. I had hoped that most people would do the same, but alas, I may be in the minority. Coronavirus is keeping me on my toes and the blatant racism is causing most of my rage. My Dad said it right, "when you see crazy, run".

How many of you have asked your own personal physicians what they think about the effectiveness of the general public use of masks?

My physician thinks that masks should be mandatory anytime you leave your home. He also thinks that our government is underplaying the severity of this pandemic. I had a question about a prescription and he called me and I asked him about masks and the pandemic in general.

"How many of you have asked your own personal physicians what they think about the effectiveness of the general public use of masks?"

What a staggeringly ______ question.

I didn't ask, I was told (politely reminded) at the end of a video consultation some weeks ago. To always use a mask when in public, keep a distance of at least 10 feet from others and to avoid people and places where mask compliance wasn't 100%. Should I have asked my doc about her political affiliation after she said that?

There's no difference of opinion among physicians and public health experts. Only among the hacks and fools who continue to deny blatantly obvious facts.

But then those of you who stay home don't see it. Then turn around and
call those of us who are out there seeing the world in real time
through our own eyes wrong.

Why would you assume only people who stay home don't think the way you do? Plenty of us who are out daily feel masks should be mandatory.

How many of you have asked your own personal physicians what they think
about the effectiveness of the general public use of masks? Honestly?

My doc advises masks, social distancing, avoiding crowded places, and frequent hand-washing with soap for at least 30 seconds.

I am sure you will discount the below, but I am going to post it anyway:

A study published June 11 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
journal found that COVID-19 transmission is primarily airborne, and
that widespread mask-wearing “significantly reduces the number of
infections.” Without masks, social distancing is not enough, according
to the article, which studied trends in Wuhan, China, Italy and New York
City.

“We conclude that wearing of face masks in public
corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman
transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with
simultaneous social distancing, quarantine, and contact tracing,
represents the most likely fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19
pandemic,” the study says.

"How many of you have asked your own personal physicians what they think about the effectiveness of the general public use of masks?"

When I went in for an overdue physical last week, everyone in the building was wearing a mask. My doctor's assistant came into the exam room wearing one, and then my doctor came into the exam room wearing a mask. The people in the lab when I had bloodwork done? Yeah, wearing masks.

The virus is spiking in several areas in the country. If people don't care that it's spiking, keep on doing what you're doing. New recommendations are to wear masks.

Simple question - what exactly are you opposed to in wearing a mask? It's really not that hard to wear one. But at the end of the day, I don't really care if you do or not. I do wear one, I socially distance when I do go out. Your intentionally continuing to call a mask a muzzle when you know it offends people is disgusting.

I believe the people who use that term and share such a belief think they are making a political statement.

sjerin, of course they are. The virus isn't political though. 116,526 deaths in the U.S as of today. It's just deaths. Not deaths by party affiliation. Just a whole lotta deaths.

I think some politicians are trying to get away from the concept of minimizing transmission, because that causes conflict. Instead they have moved into flat out denial that the Coronavirus continues to exist at all. If you think the uninformed have koolaid parties on masking, just wait until this new phase gets settled in...

Trump on coronavirus: 'If we stop testing right now, we'd have very few cases, if any.'

Lol, Lucille, Trump's comment gave me a real laugh out loud.

So we should just stop testing. Then there wouldn't be any cases. That's how to eliminate COVID-19. Just stop testing. 😷

I'm trying to remember the character who always said, "I don't wanna! I don't wanna! I don't wanna!" Was it a cartoon? A little kid?

The notion that no testing would mean no cases is kinda like if I don't weigh myself, I won't gain weight. Why, I'm going to toss that scale immediately!

This thread has deteriorated into several people sea lioning those that they don't agree with. There is no point in and carrying on a discussion or answering questions with a colony of sea lions.

Well, come on, what the president said was so stupid. We are making fun of it. That's easy. The scary part is that spineless bootlicker Mike Pence is now acting like the pandemic is over.

Isn't it rather surprising that one of the world's most advanced countries, enjoying freedom and democracy, with high levels of health capability, has one of the worst records in the world of dealing effectively with the corona virus?

Would that they would pay more attention and be guided more effectively by the wisdom of their health care professionals.

ole joyful

I think Joyful is making a good point, and contributing to the thread in a way that sensibly points to more leadership by those who understand the virus. Why would anyone take issue with that?

His comments are not unwarranted, many of us are embarrassed by the idiotic way our president and other politicians have handled the pandemic.

with many personal comments about you that would be equally inappropriate but also personally very embarrassing for you and shocking for people to hear about. Shall I start? I will if you don't delete your comment promptly.

Whoa, are you personally threatening one of the helpful and beloved members here?

Joyful is certainly entitled to his opinion just as anyone else is.

What is wrong with people like this? Even if they don't care about themselves, don't they have any loved ones at home, etc., that they want to help protect from the virus?

they think they are invincible? they have an ulterior motive? for them it is all about them not others.

i've seen lots of those out there (not that I go out much and it's usually only to 2 places for groceries). I've only been to W twice in 3 months, and I go at an off hour. If there's a big line (more than 10 people) I go back home. The majority are not wearing masks and I stay clear of them.

If my kids did that (lived close and came over to see me) I'd tell them not to come see me at this time. My son was planning to come out this summer with his 2 boys. I was glad this past weekend to hear he was putting it off until next summer. If he hadn't told me that I planned to tell him to put it off for now. If none of them have it now they could pick it up on the trip and expose me to it, or one of them could get sick with it and be stuck in some strange town along the way.

I believe where you live plays a role in how you feel about wearing a mask, combined with your personal situation. If I, or a loved one, was in a higher risk category because of health complications, of course that would affect my choices.

Here in rural Missouri, masks are not as common as it sounds like where some of you live. Don't get me wrong, I still see 60 - 70% of folks wearing them, but they tend to be 50's and over. Young people, the ones who are bullet proof, don't. I'm over 60, and that still leaves 30-40% of people in my age group who aren't wearing a mask. As long as they keep their distance from me, I don't care. When it comes to my personal space, I don't much care if you have a mask on or not. I'll ask you, point blank, to step back. So far, that has worked.

Where I work, we provide masks and sanitizer at the entry. Not everyone uses either item. Their choice. I have a clear curtain between me and the customer. Do not pull that curtain aside! When I'm out on the floor, I'm wearing a mask. Behind the curtain, I take it off. And I sanitize counters between each customer or group if they've come in together.

I don't believe it's foolish to take precautions. If you don't think that's necessary, I'm not going to poke at you. But please, be that considerate to me and keep your distance.