You can pre-freeze Worcestershire in small baggies on a flat surface ahead of time, then put them in a larger labeled bag. Just pull out however many you need when freezing your steaks, remove from baggie and add them to your foodsaver steak.

An alternative, to the steaks already frozen would be to put the steak in a baggie, add the Worcestershire, dunk in water to remove air, and sous vide.

Just a note, oil will not freeze. Also to add flavoring during quick sear, I'll put butter, or Worcestershire in the pan right before the meat. I do this with lemon slices as well.

Or mix the Worchestershire with something powdered (mushroom, onion, garlic, pepper, etc) to a paste, that won't be easily sucked out.

Modernist Cuisine recommends Asian fish sauce for steaks.

dcarch

Thanks, all.

dcarch, wouldn’t Asian fish sauce get sucked out of the bag just like Worcestershire? Is it that much thicker? I know what it is, but I‘ve never had any.

2Many, I’ve done the water displacement method before, but I worried the whole time that the bag’s seams were going to give way. Thanks for the warning about oil. I don’t put it in with the steak. I’ve read that EVOO can taste metallic when cooked sous vide.

JohnLiu, love your idea, but I wonder how much garlic powder it would take to make a paste with Worcestershire. I might have to move to the guest room for a week! HA!

"dcarch, wouldn’t Asian fish sauce get sucked out of the bag just like Worcestershire? Is it that much thicker? I know what it is, but I‘ve never had any."

You don't have to suck out all the air in the bag. Just enough so the bag will not float. Or do the displacement method.

"Sous vide" is a very poor word for cooking in a precision temperature controlled cooker. . Sous vide has nothing to do with vacuum or pressure. As a matter of fact it is not possible to create vacuum in a plastic bag. Also, water boils under vacuum.

This fancy French word turned many people off. I was criticized a lot when I first started sous vide cooking.

dcarch

dcarch, I appreciate what your are saying. I hate turning other parts of speech into verbs, like “googling.” And I know “sous vide” is actually a French prepositional phrase meaning ”under vacuum” or “in a vacuum,” but I’ve never really been able to come up with a relatively short phrase to describe the method of cooking. “Food in a vacuum sealed container cooked in water controlled by a precision temperature controller and circulator” is just too much. Dave (@bragu_DSM 5) suggested calling the gizmo Suzie, which I like, but which isn’t in common usage yet. I still don’t know what the verb would be for what Suzie (Susie, Soozie) would be doing. My BIL keeps referring to it as ”boil-in-bag.”

The one time I tried putting a liquid in the bag and stopping the suction when the liquid got to the seal line, it didn’t work for me. It floated.

I admire those of you who are willing to keep refining a method or a recipe until it works the way you want it to. I regret, I’m not one of those.

ETA: I just bagged and sealed a couple of steaks with just a dash of Worcestershire in the bag. Although I tried stopping the vacuum just before the sauce got to the seal line. I wasn't totally successful. However, my seal seems to be good. I'll cook them tomorrow night. I totally forgot about freezing then sealing.

I mostly season / flavour after the cooking. You could try injecting the meat .....I haven't tried it yet, but have the syringe at the ready!

IC, interesting concept and I want to give it a try. I don’t have a needle, but they sell them on Amazon! In my neck of the woods, injecting is mainly used for seasoning turkeys before they are fried. DBIL and DD’s FIL, who are close friends, both make excellent fried turkeys at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

This fancy French word turned many people off. I was criticized a lot when I first started sous vide cooking.

dcarch - Speaking for myself, the term itself seems fitting enough and its Frenchness had no part in my early criticisms. I took more issue with your exaggerated criticisms and perceived shortcomings of traditional cooking methods. I still don’t think it’s “all that”. I do use it for some applications and was just about to search up something when I saw this thread. But for steak I still consider it little more than a foolproof way to get consistent second rate results. Just my opinion, to my palate.

That said, I’ll admit I sometimes cringe at my tone when I stumble upon past conversations. 😂

This depends on the type of vacuum sealer you have. Some will suck all the liquids out, while others will not - because they elevate the suction area above the countertop you are working from. I have one of these, and it wasn't expensive.

You can also start vacuuming, and stop when the liquid approaches. Most of the air will be gone, and just use a small saucer or something to hold the bag down.

For various reasons, I am now using reusable silicon zip bags. In these, since the only vacuum is obtained is by the water displacement method, there will always remain some air. As long as it is not too much and you can submerge the entire bag, there's no issue. As mentioned, small saucer or mug atop helps, or add in a heavy spoon or two into your bag before submerging/vacuum-sealing.

bbstx- I was looking up SV skirt steak around when I posted. I’m thinking that might be a candidate. Which was prompted by thinking they’d be good with this spice mix:

1 tbsp. cayenne pepper
1 tbsp. chili powder
1 tbsp. garlic powder
1 tbsp. ground black pepper
1 tbsp. ground white pepper
1 tbsp. onion powder
1 tbsp. smoked paprika
1 1⁄2 tsp. ground cumin
1 tsp. dried basil
1 tsp. dried oregano
1 tsp. dried thyme

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/smith-wollensky-s-secret-to-cooking-a-perfect-steak-at-home

FOAS, that sounds divine! Thanks for sharing. I would love to have one of those steaks one day at Smith & Wollensky. The seasoning is supposed to be good on hamburgers too. I’ve got a bunch of ground beef to shape into burgers and freeze.

btw, Kenji Lopez-Alt gives instructions on sous vide cooking of burgers HERE

I don't think I'd inject Worcester sauce into a steak. We use it as a condiment for a shepherds pie or something like that.

I have a veal roast I'm going to sous vide today. I'm going to make a marinade with olive oil, a little sherry vinegar, salt, pureed garlic and I'll inject the meat with a little of that. I'll let you know what the results are.

"------ I took more issue with your exaggerated criticisms and perceived shortcomings of traditional cooking methods. I still don’t think it’s “all that”.----"

FOAS, interesting. I don't remember I had ever criticizing other cooking methods.

Perhaps I had said this:

I was blamed for promoting sous vide, a very unsafe low temperature cooking method. I explained that it is just the opposite. Many regular cooking methods are more unsafe because there is no way to be sure of safe cooking temperature without over cooking. OTOH, sous vide can guarantee food safety, as long as you don't over doing it.

dcarch

There were definitely misconceptions about safety, fueled in part by the government’s apprehension in the early days. As for the rest, no need to rehash all these years later. But none of it had anything to do with the French name. None of it.

I still haven't gotten anything wonderful out of the sous vide, and I hate to "waste" perfectly good steak trying to get it right. I've been "wasting" the pork chops, since I don't like them much anyway, but still haven't found the balance between tough and mushy. (sigh) I've used the chart from Serious Eats, which says 1-4 hours at 150. I've used 1 hour and I've used various times up to 4 hours, but it's still not right. I don't care what the "experts" say, I'm not eating rare pork, so I cook it to 150F and then give it a quick sear in a hot cast iron pan. I've tried the broiler too, but that's no better.

I've only used the water displacement method because my vacuum packaged steaks come two per package from my processor, stacked one on top of the other They are not seasoned, so I have to thaw, season and repackage.

The pork chops also come two per package but they are not stacked, they are in a single layer, side-by-side. Perhaps if I did them in the package and only seasoned after cooking? The sticky label would probably come off in the water but since the chops are sealed, that shouldn't make a difference...

I want to love it because it would sure be convenient. I considered using it yesterday when Ashley was here, I could put the meat in the sous vide and then go fishing with the girls. But, since I know it never comes out right I couldn't use it to feed other people and so I put the chops in the oven, along with the chicken. Like the air fryer, I WANT to love it, neither appliance was particularly inexpensive but so far the learning curve on each of them has just been too steep. I don't like to "fiddle" with appliances too much, which is why the Instant Pot is used only when Elery cooks beans. I thought the sous vide would be perfect, stick the bags in the water and walk away. (sigh) It's not. And, because Mother's osteoporosis has made her teeth loose and she can't chew something like steak or chops, I was hoping I could make something tender enough for her to eat without braising it for hours. That hasn't happened either, unfortunately.

Thankfully, I can justify the expense because it was an anniversary gift for Elery, LOL.

Annie

@annie1992, check out Chef Steps and Anova for additional information and recipes for sous vide cooking.

You mention the label coming off the package. I’ve got an Anova gizmo. I’d be afraid of the label getting sucked into the circulator or stopping up the intake slots. I have no idea how the Joule works. It may not be a problem with that brand.

We had the filets last night that had marinated overnight with just a splash of Worcestershire in the bag. I truly could not tell it was even there. Nevertheless the steaks were very tasty.

bbstx, the one I got Elery is an Anova too, and you're right, it could "suck up" that label, so I guess that idea is shot down. I did check the Anova website for times for the pork chops and they say the same as Serious Eats, 1-4 hours at 150F for medium well. Not surprising, since it's Lopez-Alt in both places, LOL. I don't eat rare pork, so that's as low as I will go. That website calls for salt and pepper seasoning before cooking, then a sear with butter and some aromatics, pretty much what I've been doing.

My "trial and error" seems to be mostly error. (grin)

Annie

It's funny ... we did not oft see a 'skirt steak' in Iowa at the meat counter UNTIL they started showing up on the TV shows.

The meat guy always said ...

why do you want THAT cut when there are so many better cuts ...

I grew up on round steak ... it was cheap and it was the summer saturday/sunday grilling steak fave of dad's ... an NO he did not have it tenderized, just a slop of beer every once in awhile .. and our sauce was ketchup and woooo stuhhh sure fire shire ...

I have them double tenderize it ... it soaks up the plain Wooster better .... SaraWMBO prefers chicken or brats ...

Well, my veal cooked at 134.5F for 9 hours, injected with the mix I mentioned above was tender, juicy and delicious with an overall gentle flavour of garlic.

I do pork for 150f for 3 hours and it isn't mushy. Maybe it isn't cooked enough for you. Cook it a little hotter but for less time. Try 167 for 45 mins.

Annie - I totally get having aversions to things, and I know you have a few. I’m thinking if you don’t enjoy pork cooked to lower temperatures, then SV won’t be of much benefit. For me, pork is one of the best applications because you can achieve that less done range safely. I’ve not tried really low but have settled in at 143 where a 1” chop is pasteurized within 1.5 hours. To my taste it’s juicy but not mushy. I’ve not tried much longer cook times as I’ve generally had bad experiences with that, certain tougher beef cuts being the exception.

Islay, 167???

OK, so there's tomorrow's experiment, pork chops cooked at 167 for 45 minutes! it's supposed to be over 90F here tomorrow and so I won't be doing much outside, kitchen experiments will be a good occupation.

FOAS, so you cook the pork at 143F, but then do you pan sear it, or put it on the grill, which would cook it more?

And you said you didn't have luck with longer cooking times? So if I cooked a chop (or a steak) all day it wouldn't get more tender? Or would it?

Luckily, Elery and the dog will always eat the chops, even if I won't, so at least they are happy. I need to get it more "right" than it is now, though, if I'm going to feed the chops to other people.

Annie

Annie - I sear it one way or the other (generally pan) but it’s hot and pretty quick, only the surface and a tiny bit within would cook more. If you’re concerned about that you could throw them in the freezer for a few minutes before searing, but I don’t bother.

As for time, in general I’ve had better results staying at the low end of the range. From Serious Eats:

It's true that timing for sous vide cooking is much more forgiving than with traditional techniques—your window of well-cooked meat opens up from seconds or minutes to hours—but even so, it is possible to over- or undercook the meat. My general rule of thumb is to allow around 15 minutes of cooking time per half inch of thickness, adding on an extra 10 minutes or so just to be safe. This is enough time to allow the meat to achieve thermal equilibrium and get cooked through to the same temperature as the water bath. Beyond that time, the meat will not lose much juiciness, but eventually, as muscle proteins break down, it will become somewhat mushy, shredding as you bite rather than tearing.

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/04/sous-vide-pork-chops-recipe.html#time

Obviously something like 72 hour short ribs would be a different story. There the additional breakdown is a desired result.

I like Emeril's mix ... though I usually DO NOT use the salt. I sprinkle some hot pepper flakes on as well..

8 T paprika [I liked smoked]

3 T cayenne

5 T black pepper, freshly ground [such as tellicherry]

6 T garlic powder

3 T onion powder

6 T salt [I omit]

2 1/2 T dried oregano

2 1/2 T dried thyme

Yes, 167. I do chicken thighs like that for 45 minutes and they're perfect and juicy. You can elevate the temperature for a shorter time. Annie is finding meat mushy so this could be the solution for her.

But that’s a normal temp for chicken thighs. Whatever, worth a shot. I agree it shouldn’t be mushy!

Well, it wasn't mushy. It was pretty dry, though. Here are my chops, and they ARE pretty lean. I spent some time peeling that sticker off the vacuum sealed bag, LOL.

Right at an inch thick:

45 minutes at 167F, and there was a lot of liquid left in the bag.

I seared the chops in a hot pan where I had browned some butter and fresh sage leaves from the herb garden. The flavor was pretty good, although they were not seasoned until they hit the pan, because I didn't want to "unseal" the vacuum package. They were not overdone, if you look closely you can see a little "pink" there in the middle/left of this piece, but they were definitely dry. Not mushy though, so that's a good step.

I did bring them to room temperature before they went into the sous vide, and the finished temperature out of the pan was 160F, I lost a little heat while I was preparing the pan.

Should I have let them sit longer than the few minutes it took to sauteed those sage leaves and let them soak some of that liquid back in? Would they even do that? Or are they simply over done?

And maybe I should do an all day pork chop and see if it gets mushy enough for Mother, LOL.

Annie

Poor Mother, LOL!

Annie I really wish you would try one at 143 for 1.5 hours. (I’d do it shorter but 1.5 would make it totally safe.) I promise you won’t feel like you’re eating raw chicken or something. Promise.

Also, while I understand the temptation to cook in original packaging, I think it’s better to season and repackage.

Perhaps the chop is not your favourite cut. For flavour, I prefer a chop with more fat on it. You just have to keep trying til you find what works for you. I think our meat is different to yours. You could also try a thicker chop stuffed to keep the meat moister. Mushrooms, garlic, a little breadcrumbs cooked in butter.

Islay, you are right, the chop is not my favorite cut, but we have a whole darned pig's worth of them. The processor is not the one I usually use, it's one of those fancy USDA approved processors and they definitely trimmed that pork, I wish they had left a little more fat on it. It seems to me that when the pork is that lean if you cook it a second too long, it's dry and tough, which is why I thought the sous vide might be a better option for it. Ah well, the dog was happy and in my house, that's IMPORTANT. (grin)

OK, FOAS, I'll do it your way next time, it's only 3 degrees less than I cooked at the last time, so maybe that will make a difference. If it has that slimy "raw pork" texture, though, I know who to blame. I don't know what to do about it, but I know who to blame, LOL.

And no matter what, the dog still has to eat SOMETHING. We don't buy dog food, the dog eats what we eat, so some nights that's a pork chop, I guess!

Annie

Annie, I read once, I think it was Kenji Lopez-Alt who wrote it, that 3 degrees is a world of difference in sous vide cooking. I know 4 degrees is. I’ve always cooked DH’s steaks at 135 degrees for 45 minutes, then lowered the temp to 131 and thrown in my steak for 45 minutes. He has decided that he likes my 131 degrees better.

Here is a recipe from Chef Steps for Pork Chops. They are cooked to 144 degrees.

If you‘ve got a freezer full of pork chops and you can’t find a sous vide way that is appealing to you, do we need to start bombarding you with recipes for other things to do with pork chops? My favorite is to braise them in milk. I’ve also been known to throw them in a pot of spaghetti gravy/sauce for a couple of hours. Gives a nice flavor to the gravy, and yields tender chops.

Thanks, bbstx, I'm going to give FOAS' method a try next.

There are several reasons that I thought I'd use the pork chops for my sous vide experiments. I have quite a few of them, and since pork is not my favorite meat and it was pretty cheap, I'm not as leery about "wasting" them. They were languishing in the freezer, and I'm trying to get some freezer room for those 23 meat chickens that'll be ready to process in about 2 weeks. And, of course, the dog likes everything I mess up, LOL.

So, I figure I'll keep trying different methods/temperatures/times/seasonings until I hit that "sweet spot" where Elery likes them and I think they are edible. (shrug)

I am disappointed that I can't just chuck them into the sous vide in the morning, work at the farm all day and come home to a perfectly cooked chop that just needs a quick sear to be supper. It was the reason Elery wanted one, so he could do a bunch of chops/steaks/whatever and then just toss them on a grill to finish when the family was ready to eat. Unfortunately, that results in a mushy and sub-par finished product, which I did not expect after hearing others say they could "hold" a steak for 12 hours or whatever and still have it be perfect. I remember Grandma telling me that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, so I should have been suspicious. However, Elery wanted one and it made a good gift, so it accomplished something already, and I bought it on line, didn't have to go to a store!

Mother, wants everything to be soft, so maybe she'd like it that way!

Annie

bbstx, you just answered my first question. That you have already found the sweet spot in SV timing...they way you both like your steaks. Just looking for different ways to season. Your DH mentioned Worcestershire. Might try a method I learned in a pub in Memphis years ago. Use your dry rub on just one side. (maybe also try a new one). Or add a bit of mustard powder and a scant tsp of brown sugar to yours. Food saver and freeze. After SVing, medium/high heat cast iron, seasoned side down. If your sear time is 4 minutes, do 3.5 on that side, flip, add a few shakes of worcestershire. Then put a lid on for 30 sec.

I think the pub had a few more things in their top sauce but it was very liquid in a squeeze bottle. Vinegars can do weird things to that 1/4 inch of meat surface if on too long, especially under the heat of SV. Excellent for some tough cuts.

And/or maybe make a quick steak sauce for the table as a side.

I perfected our steaks and burgers a few years ago. Not SV. I should mention 'perfect-for-us-and-how we-like-them'. I do agree with FOAS and Kenji that it isn't 'all that'. But is an excellent addition to any kitchen. Excellent for pork, tougher cuts, roast beef, etc. And best of all timing issues. If I had 8 steaks for a dinner party, with multiple courses, or 16 burgers for a bbq....

-we stopped doing burger and dogs for bbqs. Too many likes and dislikes. Too much short oder cook complications. Then the whisper, "my son likes his dog boiled on an un-toasted bun". Then all the toppings. Cheese preferences, etc.

About Annie's pork. I first started with a big Costco pork loin for the same reason. (cheap). (not tenderloin).

This was a while ago, but clearly remember I was not working so had time. DH got stuck in a meeting and was late coming home. And starving. I had dinner on the table in just a few minutes after the quick sear. It was tender but juicy and needed a steak knife. Good grief, fork tender is disgusting. It isn't meat loaf, 😂

Annie, I think you had no interest through all the past discussions and missed the time/temp/pasteurization talk. There is a window of time where being held at a certain temp, the texture will not change. Once you find the exact texture you like. I pretty much nailed it the first time. Then improved it trying different spice rubs.

I also find it is not necessarily the quality of any cut of beef or pork...they all need their own study. That has been an issue now since I'm not visiting my favorite butcher or the local farms. Our farm share is HusonValley grown and a co-op of many NewEngland farms, so no SV for that. But I will stock next month our usual steaks and a pork loin. We have much to go through for weeks first.

As always, I seem to want what we don't have. 🤪, like no blue cheese but have two dozen others.

I want my steak.

Annie I’m a little confused. Originally you said you wouldn’t cook under 150 but now you’re saying 143 is just 3 degrees less than last time. If I’m reading this correctly, how did 146 compare to 150 in your opinion?

I'm sorry, I thought that was 147! I had an election audit today and numbers are all scrambled in my brain, including those 147 unreturned absentee ballot applications that I was required to account for.

143, though? I don't know if I can do that. For me pork has to be a little past medium, tending toward well. I'll try, though. The worst that will happen is that the dog gets yet another pork chop or I won't be able to eat it that way and will have to toss it back into the pan.

Yeah, I know it's weird. I'll eat raw beef, but chicken has to be cooked completely and pork has to be at least heading toward completely cooked. I also won't eat rare/raw fish because I'm just too far from an ocean to trust that, and I won't eat rare venison because we're in a chronic wasting zone. The pork thing, though, is strictly texture, it's hard for me to get past that.

Sorry for hijacking your threat, bbstx!

Annie

I have been sous viding fish, with good results, typically 25 min at 125F. Then I was cooking eight mackerel fillets at a friend’s house and didn’t have a sous vide machine. So I figured out this technique. Soak fillets briefly in cold water, dump water, repeat 2X (gets rid of fishiness), boil a medium pot of water with miso and salt (a bit more liquid than necessary to cover ask the fish), remove from heat, slide all the fillets into the just boiled water, leave into water is lukewarm (heat will be absorbed in the fish), remove, serve with a dipping sauce. The mackerel was spoon tender. Being an oily fish, it doesn’t overcook too easily. Didn’t take 25 minutes either.

Annie, no problem with the hijack. I think it has caused the thread to be more interesting than my question!