Yet another promix soil comparison!

3 years ago

last modified: 3 years ago

I was thinking of a thread that I started last year about soils in particular MGGS and wanted to update everyone on growing in promix hp recently for anyone interested. Just a side note I do have a few other small trees in promix hp for the last couple years doing great since brian suggested it to me two years ago but this time I actually have a comparison of two of the exact same trees of same age same source etc etc. I got two shiranui trees last July from the same source (brugsmansia Quebec) and since I only had enough 511 leftover for one I decided to get some leftover promix hp I had from a previous year and plant the lesser of the two trees in that. What I mean is one tree arrived smaller than the other and looking less healthy with fewer leaves and that was the one I decided to pot into straight up promix hp. Well it’s been almost a year now and the growth rate has been quite different surprisingly the promix hp has edged out the 511 Even though it started out smaller.

The one potted in the promix hp is on the right and has flushed twice this year where as the one in 511 on the left has only flushed once. Also while it doesn’t look like it from the angle I took the picture from, the two are potted up with the rootball at the same height.

It got the same treatment over winter although I did water the one in promix much Less than the one in the 511 so I guess it got less fertilizer too since I only fertilize when I water. In our dreary cloudy Unusually cold winter last year i watered the promix every month or maybe even 6 weeks went by between every watering Since I did over pot the poor tree. the root ball was tiny and I only had a large 14”x14” pot to put it in and I was terrified of overpotting but it didn’t seem to be a problem! I’m very surprised. I’m about to repot many of my citrus this year I might have to switch them all to promix hp! I really hope brian sees this as hes the one who got me brave enough to use such a peaty mix!

also just as to not start a forum war lol Im quite Sure it’s me and my watering habits that make the 511 not as great as I’m never used to watering something so porous!! It’s working so well for so many others that I know it must be user error on my part. I do have a few On 511 that’s also doing great however more than half of my trees in 511 doing poorly in them Or just ok.

Featured Answer

Laura LaRosa (7b)

3 years ago

My Seville is loaded with oranges!

a few more from a distance and one of my fig trees behind

another citrus area. I’m rehoming a few of these, but most are staying

more...;). The tree in the big black pot in the first row is the red lime tree that I bought a whole ago. It’s a vigorous tree and great production. The bergamot (farthest right) also was potted up today. It is also quite vigorous.

This is my Prague citsuma which spent its second winter in the ground without damage. It has finally really started to grow. I’m going to make a post about it because I know many are interested in this variety.

I forgot to photograph my ST, but it is also doing quite well, although not as densely foliated as others.

I’m so happy to hear you guys are all well. These are crazy times we are living in. Stay safe everyone!

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Comments (74)

Monyet
3 years ago
What’s the difference between mine and Promix? Just the price, nothing else. I can make my crap much better than promix. I am crazy to buy a bag that I can make for a 1/3 X 40 tree’s.

It ain’t going to happen.
Monyet
3 years ago
Tropico, I have tried Miracle Gr, citrus/ avocado mix and Kellog raised bed, I like Kellog a bit better. I stop at my local hydroponic store and check out a product called Growth Stone, as light as perlite, it might be better. Same price as perlite but smaller bag $26.00.

Looks like I would be enough for 5 or 6 good size containers. Didn’t by it But end up buying 4 squat containers, 15 gl ones Use for my next repotting. Stocking up for the next wave.
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Minnamouse - I posted this at the end of a different thread you posted but perhaps you didn't see it. Here's a cut & paste section, followed by a few new thoughts: "Minnamouse, if you had all that trouble with damping off you might really want to consider a good commercial blend. The reason I say that is because they are mixed to provide an appropriate level of moisture retention and trying to get that with your own mix could be a real challenge. I like Promix and Sunshine mix best and personally dislike Miracle Gro. Part of that is probably due to regional growing condition bias. Miracle Gro dries out way too fast for me here while the other two stay at just the most perfect moisture level for much longer times. I do think that Miracle Gro may have an advantage for people growing in wetter conditions. The same features that hurt germination rates for me and made planting out challenging would probably have been advantages in growing regions that got a lot of rain this year. If you are still working at getting good results with WSing, I'd make ProMix a first choice in areas where you usually don't have muddy gardens and Miracle Gro potting mix a first choice in areas where mud in the garden is common. (Sunshine mix is less readily available and more pricey.) I'd hold off on using home mixed mixes for anything but seeds you have in huge abundance where won't be upset if they don't grow. That's actually what we do - I use our home grown container mix for things like zinnias where I have many giant bags of seed available. When you have a load of surplus seed you can live with a potting mix that wicks water in a less than perfect way or that might crumble or break apart when you try to transplant hunks of seedlings." To specifically address your question today, in my opinion the biggest deal about using a purchased mix is that the moisture wicking and retention balance is better than anything you can put together on your own - and that can be VERY important in seed starting. My family likes to be very cost conscious. We grow most of our own food. We have to container grow our veg in five gallon buckets here because the local soil is pretty much just rocks, coal and a bit of clay. (Nice if you want to run a quarry, lousy for gardening!) Our growing & food producing containers are all filled with a home blend of compost with a little perlite. That's great for mature plants and not having picture perfect wetting and moisture retention is not a problem at that stage. Good enough is perfectly fine. But for seed starting and seedlings we only use Sunshine mix or Promix. Yes, it's more costly - especially when I WSed over 3600 containers of flowers and hubby indoor sowed over 200 tomatoes plants and about 50 each of peppers, eggplants, gourds, melons, beans and the rest of the stuff. Maybe I should also mention that hubby Pat's family has been commercial growers in England for at least 6 generations. They made all of their container mix (like you describe above) but bought in their seed sowing mix by the pallet load. In his professional growing experience, and our personal home growing experience it is worth the cost to buy a good seed starting mix - and save home mixes for once the plants are past the seedling stage. That's how we do it because we consider the cost of seed and we want strong seedlings and high germination rates. That's also why I won't use miracle gro here - although if I was in waterlogged Pennsylvania this year I'd probably appreciate it's moisture wicking profile better. I hope this helps. I don't know if you've seen any of my other posts but if you have you probably know that I've got very similar views to you about getting really good value for your money when you are gardening. To me there is such incredible value in planting a seed and getting a healthy strong seedling - ready to grow big and strong, provide flower or food, and then provide seed for future years. I just can't afford the cost of seed, time lost, and food lost by seed starting in a homemade mix - and that's even with having my own English gardener (with decades of growing experience) right here and his elderly mother(with even more experience) just a phone call away. I hope I don't sound like I'm just a member of some kind of Pro Mix fan club. I'm not. I like anything that gets me top notch results. That just happens to be that pricey Pro Mix and Sunshine mix. Lynda Here is a link that might be useful: This is why I seed start in Promix or Sunshine mix
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I am using 5-1-1. It costs me about $3.00 per cu-ft. The most expansive component (1/7th) is perlite. About 70% is pine bark @ $2 per cu-ft. Now, promox on the other hand is better than 70% peat moss. So its advantage is more moisture retention and with that comes fertilizer retention. You can have a modified version of 5-1-1. Make it 3-3-1 (3parts pine bark, 3 parts peat moss, one part perlite) I modify mine by adding 1 part DE (UltraSorb) and reduce pine bark by the same amount. So I have: 4-1-1-1. You can do it as 3-1-1-2 (2 parts DE). one pond of dry DE absorbs one pound of water, EXACTLY. And unlike peat it does not get mushy nor it will cake. After it is saturated it will work like perlite, providing drainage. AND it won't fall apart. Great stuff. The most difficult part of making 5-1-1(or its variation) is to find the right pine/fir bark fine. I made 2 barrel full of it this season, with less the one bale of peat moss($11), one bag of UltraSorb ($9), and one bag of perlite ($18). I keep saying this: there is no secret in the medium other tha its moistutur retention and drainage property. Plants grow with nutrients that you add to the medium. That medium can be water, sand/gravel, bark, old fashion garden soil( as long as it does not get compacted). Edit: Another property of a good medium is to provide AIR for the root system. That is what a soggy soil lacks (no air = oxygen) causing fatal damage. Plants do not die because of too much water but because of too little or no air. Otherwise hydroponics could not work if it were because of too much water. Yet another reason why fabric/smart bags work better than plastic container; MORE OXYGEN. This post was edited by seysonn on Thu, Jun 26, 14 at 1:17
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tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
3 years ago
I have used gro-stones. Great product as a substitute for perlite. In fact it is lot like pumice. Does not crush easily as perlite and is very porous. So it is very re-usable stuff. They area bit on the larger side about 1/4-1/2. But not easy to get here. I would use it if I could get it here easily .

The Kellogs stuff is different depending on where you are. For example mine looked like mostly shredded hardwood mulch. Other places they add bark and perlite too. Not in the bag I got.
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Tropic I know miracle grow is different too in different areas I’ve tried it before with good success as well. Bob seems like you’re always repotting something your large collection of trees must grow so fast!
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
3 years ago
Yeah, most manufacturers are pushing production based on locally available material. Still does not explain why perlite will be missing from Kellogs product depending on location. After all it is a key ingredient otherwise it is not similar product. For years I have been trying to figure out bulk source of fir bark here to no avail. West coast seems to have all the good stuff including pumice and lava rock.
Monyet
3 years ago
Tropico, everything is available where I am to grow citrus. Fir might be better but not that much better. Can be offset with fertilizer easy. There are so many ways growing stuff with the available fertilizers make your head spin. Just have to pick what works the best for your zone.It,s still a challenge no matter what to reach your comfort level. Dedication is just one part of it.
Amy (montreal, canada)
3 years ago
Here on the east coast, miracle gro garden soil is just horrible. This mix refuses to dry!

Pine bark is not easy to find so I have to use repti bark (expensive) or orchid mix (also expensive).
Silica
3 years ago
Out west Miracle grow Garden Soil contains a lot of bark , and maintains good drainage in container culture for a year or longer. As Tropicofcancer wrote above, Miracle Grow Garden Soil is not the same formulation throughout the country.
Laura LaRosa (7b)
3 years ago
Great thread guys! Sorry I’ve been MIA! Just today I finished repotting (potting up) some trees that had outgrown their pots. I used 4 bags of reptibark to make 511. Yes, I’ve had good success with it, and since I don’t have a greenhouse, I err on the side of a drier, more porous mix. The trees I repotted today had outgrown their pots before the mix really decomposed much, so I just mixed the “used” mix into the container with the fresh mix to freshen it up a bit. I then used it that way. I’ll post pics later, but my trees are all happy, and when I looked at their roots, they looked very healthy. Jan, I’m glad you’ve had great success with the promix. I asked about that mix here at a local farm store, but they did not have that exact one, just the basic promix. I have used it in my outdoor containers where I plant vegetables for the summer. It’s a nice mix.
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
I agree with the east and west coast difference I potted my cara cara tree in the miracle gro garden soil a couple years ago and upon repotting a few weeks ago the roots look fantastic! I was surprised as well. Laura there you are! Can’t wait to see pictures of your beautiful trees I know you have such success with the repTibark and that’s amazing I must be doing something wrong.
Laura LaRosa (7b)
3 years ago
Hi Jan! I took a few earlier :). Here goes...
Alexander the Meyer lemon...he’s doing great although I sprayed him for scale yesterday :/

The small tree on the bottom right, which I potted up today is my graft of a store-bought mandarin. It keeps blooming and growing, but I’m only allowing it to grow one mandarin because it needs to grow.
Bob the calamondin has exploded with growth!
Kevin the key lime full of fruitlets...boy is he thorny!
Hard to see all, but from left to right - blood orange, lime, miho wase (excellent fruit - potted up today), Seville orange, and sumo) - rose bushes in the ground near our brick patio. We strung up lights along the patio and it is glorious to sit out here at night😊
Jan thanked Laura LaRosa (7b)
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
3 years ago
Laura you have an orchard out there. All looking good.
Laura LaRosa (7b)
3 years ago
Pranab, your tree was repotted yesterday too. It has grown quite a bit!
Monyet
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Laura, how are you doing? Hope the family is save and sound. Your tree’s are in excellent shape coming out of captivity.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
3 years ago
Laura good to know the tree is growing well. Yours are doing well too. The calamondin suffered a bit through since it almost dies at one point because of lack of watering but it is coming back well.
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Laura wow!!!! Amazing trees!!!! I just love your Meyer lemon tree and love so much the fact that you name your trees I do the exact same thing! Lol laura which ones of all your trees are your favourite fruits? How is your Moro Fruit does it get very blood red? And have you gotten fruit from your grafted store bought satsuma yet? my favourite is my minneola and my moro blood orange and my kiyomi! I am so excited to try my xie shan this year for the first year. I thinned a lot of those trees to only a few fruits until they grow bigger! Pictures to come :)
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago

Minneola

Moro
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago

Cara cara

Sugarbelle

sorry they’re so dark taken during the rain last night!
Monyet
3 years ago
Jan, excellent looking tree’s, real pro looking. You are on the right track.
Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Jan, just amazing!! I love how you placed that tree into a wood box. I have been thinking about doing the same thing. Does it have a lining inside or is the wood holding up without one? Just beautiful and good growing. Wow on the Sugar belle too!!!

Laura, my God, it looks like they all doubled in size through the winter! I'll bet it feels great to finally have them out and to water freely from leaves right to the soil. I would love to see that patio area at night lit up. I'll bet it must smell so good at times and you must feel like you are in a paradise. Love this time of the year. Finally my lows are reaching above the 50's consistently. Finally. Also love being able to freely spray for possible pests. Do you have any helpful tips for anyone that wants to use that mix properly? How exactly do you make it? Do you use the bigger sized perlite? Just plain peat? What kind? Your mix looks just right, evenly mixed. Great job and yes you were surly missed my friend. Something told me you would be back))

Mike
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Bob thank you! Im well on my way to catching up with you pros :) thanks to everyone’s help!

mike the sugarbelles gave me so much grief this year the new growth just would not grow for about two months! They stayed the same size but finally it’s growing now I’m not sure what happened thought they would all fall off. Mike you should do it I love that thing! You know what when I added Soil to it this year and removed the root ball I was shocked that I didn’t line it or even drill any holes in it! and it’s just fine it’s not treated it’s raw wood but it’s holding up very very well the wood base has some gaps between the 2 by 4 boards so it’s not air tight and water does run through it well but for winter I’m finding it keeps the soil very warm compared to plastic or clay. I gotta ask my neighbour what wood he built it out of but I’m sad to say they moved, downsized a couple years ago into an apartment downtown. it’s so sad mike now they’re beautiful garden is filled with weeds new neighbours don’t seem to care much for gardening :(
Laura LaRosa (7b)
3 years ago
Jan, I have still not tasted all the mandarin varieties I have, so I cannot give you a conclusive answer. From the ones I've tasted (of the mandarins), I think the miho wase was my favorite. It is wonderful with just the right amount of tart (for me), seedless, and also the pith is very thin. I realized the difference when I tasted the kimbrough satsuma this spring. The tree produced over 20 mandarins, but my kids did not eat them. The pith is tough and it had many seeds. I ended using them up by putting one each morning in our smoothie. I would just peel it, cut it in half, and remove the seeds. My vitamix took care of the tough pith. I think I'll keep it because I can use it that way and it produces well, otherwise I'd find it a home. Of the oranges, the cara cara and blood are great. Unfortunately Jan, the big blood orange tree I have is a RB farms tree that was labeled "blood orange". After calling them years ago they told me that it is either sanguinelli or moro. It is delicious, but did not color up like the Moros in the stores. I think mine tasted better though even with less color. The thing is that since my conditions are not ideal for coloring them up, it may just be a moro that did not color up as much as it would in California where it is exposed to temperature extremes. Either way, I like it quite a bit and the tree is vigorous and healthy. It also does not lose many leaves in the winter, a nice plus. Of the lemons, I have to say that as much as I love Alexander the Meyer (and intend to keep him for sure), the ST, Villafranca, and Genoa are a bit better flavored. My daughter made lemonade with ST lemons this winter because we were overflowing with them, and then again with Meyers. She did not like the Meyer lemonade nearly as much because she thought it was bland. I have made lemon bars with Meyers though and they are incredible. So I guess that covers it for the most common varieties. I still like the yuzu and love the Seville. I had a sour mandarin (sudachi), that I loved, but it was never vigorous, and went to citrus heaven this winter ;). Oh, and the Minneola is nice too...I love that one, but the tree is massive! I don't have a sugar belle.

Bob, we are well here. Everyone is healthy and happy, thank God. The musicians are working hard to write, produce, and record more songs. Swimming has still not started yet to our great frustration. Mike, hang in there and stay healthy. I know you take good care of your Mom - even without hugs!
Jan thanked Laura LaRosa (7b)
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Laura thank you so much for the insight! Out all the lemons I’m thinking of getting rid of one I just don’t know which ones the problem is I just don’t use them as much as I do the mandarins which I just eat out of hand! But the Meyer lemons are such a classic and yet the Santa Theresa gave me such dry lemons in the past but I made a beautiful limoncello cream for an after meal digestif from their peels! So I guess those two are keepers then lol god knows what will happen if all my trees double in size! oh and I loooove the New Zealand lemon so that stays lol seriously I’m terrible at getting rid of stuff! You should see our garage! I’m glad you’re staying safe Laura i remember you have a puppy large white and husky looking? He’s beautiful! Glad you guys are spending more time in with him amidst all this chaos :)
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Promix
Canadian sphagnum peat moss
Peat humus (organic matter)
Perlite
Limestone
Controlled release fertilizer
Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Promix is just another Canadian potting mix based on peat. Don't get hung up on the brand. There are hundreds of similar potting mix in Canada with identical ingredients. The really important issue using peat is the maximum humidity. These products are all enriched with fertilizer which would feed your plant right through winter. If you took two hybrid tea roses and ran the same test you would have the same result.
Jan thanked Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Conventional wisdom says cactus don't need a lot of water and plant them in sandy soil and let them dry out between watering's. A year ago March I bought a paddle cactus (not sure the exact cultivar). It had a single paddle and potted in a traditional cactus soil. It was bone dry and so under-watered the roots were withered and half fell off when transplanting. Planted that one paddle in rich organic soil and that one paddle grew 3 feet tall and split from the weight. Made 3 plants from it. It was overwintered in a North facing window. Did very little indoors with low light. Here it is again this summer planted them in rich organic soil and they are exploding with growth from the organic matter. I use to grow hybrid tea roses in this bed for ten years. soil is deep and rich with coco mulch, amendments and manure which created fantastic loamy soil. I accidentally left the sprinkler on for 30 minutes a day for the past two weeks. The 3 cactus are so heavy with growth from water, sun, and organic soil I had to prop it up yesterday with bamboo. The top of the garden is dressed with sand but underneath it is loaded with rich black organic matter. That one paddle has grown into 35x its size (not including the parts I threw out last summer) In 12 months outdoors. Do you think in the desert without water or in pot with bark I would get the same results? Compost and organics make a huge difference in yield.
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
with in week I will be moving to Washington D.C. for a job
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Pro-mix - 40% organic matter.
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
45 % RH, 79 F, and 2.1 EC before the bags is even opened. Perfect growing conditions. Sadly they don't post the maximum humidity.
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Product has a nice loamy composition.
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Product also has coco fiber.
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Lemon lime your cactus is gorgeous! I’ve never seen one so large! Thank you for all the information lemon lime Im Shocked you can grow a cactus in such soil! how eye opening. I’ve never tried the potting soil it looks very fluffy and great to work with! I’ll have to pick up a bag for my indoor plants when I see it next :) thanks lemon lime!!
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
my homemade chicken soup tastes like chicken soup because it's pure
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
Just a little update on the two trees! The one on the right in promix is just about to go through a third growth flush this year! No blooms on it though!
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Jan, thanks for the great tip about PRO-MIX. I had seen the packaging before but had never really paid attention. Now its on my radar I see it everywhere. I love the 40% organic matter they use. It is very similar to what I was using just higher organics which I love. Just planted a Dwarf Meyer, Dwarf Ruby Red Grapefruit and thorny Key Lime from cuttings in PRO-MIX. Just feed all my citrus tonight with a helping of cow manure and Trivium NPK.
James (zone5b)
3 years ago
Interesting thread. You should report back next year as to how they are both doing.

I am assuming that promix has slow-release fertilizer in it like most bagged soils. I wonder how the 5-1-1 plant would have done if you had added an equivalent amount of fert to it...
nulesm
3 years ago
Hello Jan!!! I'm so happy to see the pro mix is working out beautifully for you . May I say your trees look terrific 5 out of 5 green thumbs for you . Jan I switched to the higher end pro mix only a couple of bucks more .

I find this one so much lighter and airier much easier to water . I must have repotted 15 trees with this mix in the spring and they are all doing much better in this mix much better .

Brian
nulesm
3 years ago
Jan lol if repotting your trees with larger pots is getting to expensive because pots are ridiculously priced do what I've been doing garbage cans and toy bins lol

Toy bin makes a fantastic pot and it cost $10.00 .

Shasta Gold in the garbage bin . I'm going to spray paint this one . The handles on it will make it easier to move also lol. It only cost $23.00

Brian
Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
3 years ago
Laura, thank you so much for your kind words and all that info. I even learned a lot from that. Between all you guys and gals I am able to narrow down what I want for the limited space I have) Stay safe.

Brian, Jan, lemon, I have more to talk about but I will be back. Had to run!! Quickly, Jan, wow, those pics!!!

Mike
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
I have not much to say
Jan
Original Author
3 years ago
lemon lime I don't see organic matter in the ingredients? its mostly peat moss which promix are you thinking about lemon lime? I'm interested! let me know which kind you try and let me know :)

Lol Brian! leave it to you to get creative with large pots! I love it! lol I never thought about it but at a certain point when I was about to repot my large cara cara the large garbage bin did look good lol pots are so pricey now Brian over $100 I think since covid everything plant related has gone up in price its insane! oh Brian your Shasta is beautiful!!! I cant wait for the Shasta gold to fruit mine is still so tiny but going through its second flush now I'm so excited! is it good every single year Brian? Brian ever since I put my trees in the prolix its gone crazy with growth they're halfway to your large trees :) Lol Brian 15 trees my goodness how are you still walking right now!

James I actually fertilize every single watering with a little miracle grow I also have some jacks professional fertilizer so I do feed the one in the bark mix although who knows ill get back to you next year I suppose :)
Lemon Lime Orange Zone 6a
3 years ago
Hi Jan, the HP is a faster draining mix. From memory the HP in the store was 22% organics. The version in my picture is 40%. They make dozens of regional products that are not available In the Greater Toronto Area.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
3 years ago
Technically peat and bark (listed as forest products) are both organic material besides compost. All are subject to decomposition over time.
bklyn citrus (zone 7B)
3 years ago
Great pots Nules
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
remember when they do break down nutrition for plants is released
Mona McRae
last year
Hello Jan,

its been very interesting reading about your experience with the 511 mix and the ProMix HP. I’m also having the same dilemma as you did. My 511 is made using the ReptiBark and I’ve never been able to find a large perlite. I would like to know how your citrus are doing since you first started this thread. I live on Vancouver Island and am keeping my citrus in the greenhouse over the summer as well. Where are you located?
Jan thanked Mona McRae
Jan
Original Author
20 days ago
HI Mona,

you know what i had a little fire in the greenhouse that burnt up both trees last year but honestly the promix after the second year and going into its third year did even better than the 511!
Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
20 days ago
Hi Jan!! Hoping all is well. Miss you and many. I love your greenhouse. Did you see the eclipse yesterday?
Hugs
Jan thanked Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
Jan
Original Author
19 days ago
oh my goodness Mike!!!!!!!!! oh boy am i glad to see you here!!! I was looking at all the posts and you know what it doesn't look like anyone is still active on here. Amy, Brian, Laura I don't see them anymore. I hope they're all well! How are you my friend??? I missed the eclipse! I was so busy with work i totally forgot about it was it quite something to see? Mike my new greenhouse is here but i have nobody to build it yet. I hope this summer I will be able to post a bunch of pictures of the new greenhouse. Instead of black it's now white and 12 by 16ft! So quite a bit larger. I hope it will be quite a sight when we get it up and running I will definitely be posting here. How are your citrus??? Please post pictures!