I would highly recommend KWC, their products are well built. As far as your Tub/Shower set I would recommend replacing the 3 handle set with a single control as the single control units has a pressure balance device built-in which will adjust pressure when someone turn on a fixture while taking a shower to prevent the cold/hot shock.

Thank you for your input. Any idea where I can find the bathroom fixtures I need?

Your bath fixtures are obsolete. You have to replace them all with something that includes the mandated scald protection. Antique two handled setups do not have that. An installation that old probably has other issues that need renovation rather than repair as well. Start planning the redo.

LWO, thanks for the input. My fixtures are old, not obsolete. I practice scald protection and environmental stewardship at my hot water heater, and the tile in my bathroom is gorgeous, original to the house, and not going anywhere. I have looked for extra tiles in vintage tile shops to no avail. So, I’m considering options like the handle set below from California Faucets. I know CF has declined a bit in quality. I’m not sure what else I would need to change.

You can find those fixtures at Ferguson or Home Depot replacement kit. you don’t have to use their handles but at least you get all the other parts you need. IMO it would be best if you have a plumber come by before you buy anything. He can order those parts and save you the hustle. those can be very tricky sometime to find replacements, as there are different lengths for the stems and different stem/handle configurations.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202305794

The valve behind the wall will need replacing is the issue if the trim is “disintegrating”. And that’s what is not made. Some work can happen from the cutting open the wall from the rear. But to use the existing holes for a two handle set up in the required modern plumbing arrangement is substantially more expensive. It will be thermostatic, with separate handles for temperature and volume, rather than separate hot and cold. You should talk with a plumber, and then go to his supply house after he has given them a heads up as to what is needed.

Thank you both. Great ideas. I appreciate the help.

Your fixtures are obsolete, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't fix them. There's likely nothing wrong with the valve, probably just the cartridge needs replacing. If you have a good local hardware store (not Ace Hardware), they probably have what you need in stock. Please make sure not to turn your water heater too low, in order to prevent legionella bacteria from growing.

The Merriam-Webster definition of obsolete is “no longer in use or no longer useful.” I use these fixtures and find them useful, so they’re not obsolete for me! I’m grateful to you all for helping me to figure out how to keep my tub shower intact, at least for now. Thank you!

That's a pull-out you have pictured. Different from a pull-down. I think pull-outs work a bit better with smaller sized sinks. In2Aqua, highly recommended by @StarCraft Custom Builders, was founded by the previous president of KWC and offers nearly identical faucets at better prices. KWC has had some finish wear issues lately if you read reviews, but they are still considered great faucets. For tips about where to buy In2Aqua, check this thread, and note that they also sell bathroom faucets: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4847102/in2aqua-kitchen-faucet-vs-brizo-rubinet-california-faucets#n=45

Thank you Belaria. I will check them out.

FITTINGS! Thanks so much for that. I used the word fixtures with pause.

I don’t know that I prefer stainless steel, I just figured the sink is stainless steel, so why not. Of course I’m shopping online so I don’t get to see these faucets in person. I’m not that taken with the arc, so most faucets out there.

Thank you for weighing in and educating me - I really do appreciate it.

It appears that the KWC Livello faucet doesn't have a spray, just "aerated stream". I'd want a faucet that had a spray. Examples:

• Miseno MNO64CP Mia Pull-Out Kitchen Faucet with Multi-Flow Spray Head
• Brizo 63220LF-PC Solna Pull-Out Kitchen Faucet

@StarCraft Custom Builders Thanks for the excellent information on regular stainless steel vs. PVD-coated stainless steel finishes. If I go forward with an In2Aqua purchase for a kitchen faucet, I have 2 finish choices, stainless steel (cannot tell if this is PVD on top of the brass body or something else) and chrome. You've said in another thread that chrome is great because it cannot rust, unlike stainless steel. However, chrome can scratch more easily than stainless steel, but if In2Aqua is using PVD for both chrome and stainless steel coatings, then maybe not? If I truly don't care about appearance of the finish, would chrome provide better overall long-term wear? I'll be using this kitchen for decades most likely, and I'll match my cabinetry hardware to whatever the finish of the faucet is that I choose. Would love for the faucets to keep their finish looking good for as long as possible. Thanks!

@ Belaria

"However, chrome can scratch more easily than stainless steel, "

Depends on the chrome. Plated chrome can scratch, but not easily. PVD chrome is virtually impervious.

I know In2aqua uses plated chrome. Not sure about the stainless. But, I suspect it is probably PVD because the faucets are brass.

@ eam44

Something I forgot to mention earlier is that brass faucets, with the large copper content of brass, are anti-microbial. No one is quite sure why copper kills microbes, but it does. Stainless does not, which is another good argument for brass with a stainless finish.

If you are on municipal water, this is not usually a concern (unless you live in Flint, MI). But if on well water, it is.

StarCraft, that’s so interesting - perhaps I should look at brass.

I am on municipal water in Cleveland. Gosh, I hope it is more trustworthy than the water department in Flint. Hey, do you have any experience with Hydroviv water filters? I’m seriously considering this for cold water filtration at the kitchen tap

Eam44, I ordered a Brizo articulating faucet in brushed SS for my new 36” sink. It comes in a number of different styles — and if you don’t want the SS, there are other finishes. I don’t have it installed yet but actually got to see it before the showrooms closed. I love that I can position it to run water where the sink drain will be (on the right side of the sink rather than in the middle). It’s a little pricey, but has great style. It’s kind of a poor woman’s version of the one Nidnay got in her kitchen (check out her pics). By the way, Brizo is the same company as Delta I think. It’s their designer line. I got the brushed SS Elkay crosstown sink with the changeable farmhouse front. I figured that if the front gets scratched up, I can replace the panel instead of the whole sink.

@eam44 A lot of the higher-end faucets have brass bodies with other exterior coatings. In2Aqua does. My Delta bathroom Cassidy faucets do. Brass alone is a questionable exterior finish because it can be soft.

@mtpo I had seen reviews of the Brizo articulating faucets loosing tension and falling downward over the months of wear. I'm curious how yours will wear because I loved that style. Those changeable apron fronts are a great idea.

Here's Nidnay's kitchen for the curious: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5586283/it-s-finally-backsplash-time#n=990

Thats great mtpo. I looked at Brizio faucets - they have some really pretty options, and according to StarCraft, Delta has a great warranty. I’ll check them out again.

@eam44 This might be the faucet @mtpo got. It's the Brizo Artesso, and there are a few variations like the more modern Solna profile. If you're interested, read the 3-star review and comments at this Amazon link from people who are complaining the joints lose tension over time. I think the Build.com or some other website also hosts a few similar reviews of this same problem. If it weren't for that, I would love this faucet. Interestingly enough, the In2Aqua pull-down kitchen faucets retail for less than this one with similar warranty terms.

On the topic of water — my plan is to get a whole house water purification system installed in the basement where the city water line comes into the house instead of one under the kitchen sink. That way, if it leaks, it won’t be leaking in my kitchen cabinets and on my wood floor. It will take chlorine out of the water so my the blond highlights in my hair (if I ever am able to get them again) won’t turn green. That way, we can drink pure water from any faucet in the house. Only bad thing about it that I’ve seen, so far, is that you have to run the chlorinated water through all the pipes every once in a while to keep them free of mold etc. I’m going to have to have an upkeep schedule — I don’t have much experience taking care of all the house and landscape stuff that will need taking care of. I did a lot of research into water softeners and reverse osmosis and decided to not use such a system — lots of problems with them and they waste a lot of water.

I'm considering a Berkey free-standing water filter on the countertop. I came to that conclusion after researching water filters and how best to keep the filters changed and cleaned to maximize the filtering. Berkey just seemed to be the easiest, least expensive option.

I’ve done a bit of research on water quality where I am and I’m worried about the possibility that there is lead in my water. Very few filters or systems actually remove what they say they do. They’re all certified to remove XY or Z but in practice, in actual use they do not. In truth, I drink mineral water out of glass bottles, but I would like to know if I’m worrying needlessly. There are water testing kits on the market, but the Hydroviv filter costs less than the best kit. Darn my curiosity!

@eam44 I've known a couple of families, my own parents included, who live in rural areas where the well water supply has so many particles or is near other people's septic lines or some such monstrosity that they cannot even filter the water safely so they bring in all their water from the outside or have it delivered. It's true that having a filtering system doesn't guarantee clean water, particularly if you aren't keeping those filter pads replaced regularly. Berkey does a fairly good job with a range of contaminants, but the amount of water you can filter at a time is limited to the size of the unit, and it has to be refilled constantly. It's not for everyone.

Yeah, it has to be the right system for each home/application. Here is a map provided by my municipal water supplier. I’m in one of the 50-60% zones. So the water is lead free when it leaves Cleveland, but by the time it gets to me, it’s likely not. But I cannot know for sure unless I get my water tested, which, again, costs more than the Hydroviv system.

@ Belaria

In2aqua's stainless faucets are finishes over brass. Got the info this a.m. from customer service.

" I had seen reviews of the Brizo articulating faucets loosing tension and falling downward over the months of wear. I'm curious how yours will wear because I loved that style. Those changeable apron fronts are a great idea. "

That problem has been fixed, but there may be some of the older faucets still in the supply chain, so make sure you are getting the newer version by ordering a faucet not in stock so it has to be purchased directly from Brizo.

@StarCraft Custom Builders Well, now that's fascinating Brizo has fixed the problem with the articulating joints. One review I saw had a screw that had broken to cause the problem, but several others just said the tension had gotten gradually worse and worse. If it is fixed now in newer faucets ordered straight from Brizo, that opens up another possibility, but I'd just about landed on ordering In2Aqua faucets regardless.

Thanks for confirming the PVD stainless steel on In2Aqua faucets. Someone named Greg from In2Aqua also responded earlier today at this related thread with this answer:

"Yes, in2aqua's stainless steel coating is PVD. Our PVD process enables us to apply decorative finishes to most metals and many polymers. in2aqua's PVD finishes are scratch- and wear-resistant. Long term, PVD coatings improve corrosion resistance."

[Editing to add that the Brizo Artesso now comes with a hose covered in a metal sheath in addition to the exposed hose models. The faucet & finish has a 5-year warranty for commercial users and lifetime of the original owner in original installation for residential users, and the spray head is probably plastic. In2Aqua's pull-down kitchen faucet is all metal including the spray head and has a limited lifetime faucet & finish warranty for about the same price or a little less than the Artesso depending on where you buy the faucet. In2Aqua requires installation by a professional to honor the warranty; Delta/Brizo does not. Unfortunately the Artesso and Solna models do not incorporate the SheildSpray technology nor the Diamond Seal technology, though the cartridge is "diamond coated."]

OK, questions : do I need a sprayer on my kitchen faucet? Is the KWC a better faucet than a Delta faucet, and by better I mean will it outperform or outlast? Ultimately, how do I make the choice between faucets that seem similar? Is it OK to purchase online sight unseen?

Thanks All.

@eam44 I've seen recent reviews of KWC finishes peeling. They were recently acquired by Franke, so it's possible manufacturing standards may be different now than what they once were. With the acquisition of KWC, I believe that would be by far the most quality faucet line that Franke would offer. KWC would probably outperform some Deltas in the category of internal working parts because their internals are metal vs. plastic with Delta, but the exterior finish longevity is a guess based on recent reviews.

Delta has so many different qualities of faucets that your question on that one needs to be based on the individual model technologies and reviews thereof. The better and newer Delta faucets would have Diamond Seal technology. Delta doesn't get the greatest longevity reviews with their touch-to-operate models, so if you're okay with a totally manual faucet, then the Delta with Diamond Seal is probably fine, but it wouldn't be as long-lasting most likely as the In2Aqua or KWC that have all the important inner working parts made of metal. The Brizo Artesso or Solna have their own issues, but I think they offer a lot of flexibility with preventing back strain by being able to customize the position of the water flow. See recent comments on them at this thread (scroll to bottom for recent discussion).

I lived most of my life without a spray head faucet and then moved to a house that had one and would never look back. Unless maybe you don't cook or use your kitchen much (eat mostly takeout), I cannot see a spray head faucet being a bad thing for you.

When it comes down to faucets that seem similar in all respects, you go for the one that you like the look and finish of better.

Yes, it's fine to purchase online sight unseen, but many of the faucets you might be considering are in showrooms where you can preview them which is always helpful if you can wait until retail closures are lifted in your area. You can find showrooms on each manufacturer's website. If you do purchase online without seeing the faucet in person first, make sure that the website's return policy is generous. I just ran across a review today on one supplier's website that stated they had restricted any returns of faucets, and that might be even more so the case right now with the pandemic precautions. Is there a reason you aren't considering In2Aqua? There's a showroom in Oklahoma that would do business for you remotely, and it's without question one of the best brands available on the market right now for quality and longevity. Both their faucets and finishes have a limited lifetime warranty which you would possibly never need due to the intrinsic quality of all the parts and processes used. The thread with all that information is here: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4847102/in2aqua-kitchen-faucet-vs-brizo-rubinet-california-faucets#n=48

@ eam44

1. In terms of the quality of construction, the two faucets are roughly the same.
2. KWC is made in Switzerland. Delta in the U.S. (Yes, there is still manufacturing in the U.S.).
3. KWC is likely to be the more expensive of the two.
4. Delta has a better warranty.
5. Delta uses only PVD finishes -- almost indestructible (Its parent company, Masco, also owns Vapor Tech, one of the first PVD companies). KWC uses electroplating. Good but not as durable.
6. Delta has its Diamond Seal Technology cartridge, arguably the world's first actual lifetime cartridge. KWC uses an excellent Kerox cartridge, but it is not diamond coated.
7. Delta is the StarCraft Best Value faucet for 2019 in the category of American made mid-priced faucets. KWC is a runner up in the category of European luxury faucets.

Were I to choose between the two -- Delta every time. For the money, no one can match a Delta faucet.

Home this helps.

Thanks Belaria, and StarCraft.

StarCraft, I know you are a Delta fan so I should have guessed. Actually, I’m a Cleveland girl, so I very much wanted to buy a Moen, but either their web site is super limited, or I’m just not using it correctly because I couldn’t find anything there that I liked. I really don’t want to buy a fixture made of plastic, and I am concerned about the many grades of Delta faucets, but you speak so highly of them I will look again. I am very grateful for your expertise. It is incredibly helpful.

@ Belaria

"Delta doesn't get the greatest longevity reviews with their touch-to-operate models, so if you're okay with a totally manual faucet, "

Nobody gets good reviews on electronic faucets. The failure of the electronics is our #2 complaint, right after failure of plastic faucet sprays.

We recommend against touch-free faucets because the durability of the electronics has not caught up with the robustness of the rest of the faucet.

Commonly companies that offer a "lifetime" warranty on their faucets, like Delta, offer 1 to 3 years one electronics. That's the company telling you to be wary.

Touch-free is not that useful. Typically if the electronics break after the warranty period, owners just leave it broken. How much trouble is it to turn a faucet on and off manually?

If you are actually worried about operating a faucet with dough-covered fingers, get a faucet with hospital handles (actually called "wrist blades") which can be operated with an elbow if necessary.

StarCraft, can you tell me if the Delta faucets always use a plastic spray head? I just took a look and found one I like. They also have an exposed hose version of this, but I wish they used a stainless steel braided hose.

Eam44, I was surprised to see a plastic spray head too but I saw an interesting comment in a Houzz discussion that said a lot of faucets are in front of windows and a heavy, swinging, metal faucet could break a window. I’m not sure if that’s true. Sounds better than the manufacturer saying it uses plastic because it’s cheaper.

I've seen a lot of Delta faucets in showrooms over the past year and not seen a single one to my recollection with a pull-down head that was metal. They may use plastic or some other non-metal material, but the excuse with most companies that do this is the non-metal head won't conduct heat and burn your hand from hot water. If you find an Amazon or Build website review of the specific faucet you like, oftentimes reviewers will note that the head is plastic. In2Aqua uses metal heads on their pull-downs. If their prices seem scary, check with the Oklahoma distributor at the info given in the link posted above. Actual retail is lower than MSRP stated on the website, same as with Delta or Moen.

Thanks mtpo and Belaria. I don’t want any part of my faucet to be made of plastic, which is the reason I headed down the foreign faucet rabbit hole in the first place. The KWC faucet is solid stainless steel.

At least Delta’s website is thorough. I’d read the first page of Q and A, but there was a second page. You are correct, the faucet head is not metal.

Bel, In2A has like 12 faucets. I don’t like any of them.

I'll take your word for it. In2aqua has models virtually identical to the one you pictured in your original post if you liked that one, but even In2Aqua has started using plastic on the pull-out wands (but not the pull-down). Your options are limited to get a metal pull-down spray head in PVD stainless steel coating or regular stainless steel, and KWC doesn't qualify for both the metal and the durable finish together. Have you looked at MGS or Vola? Solid stainless steel construction on those brands. Also the list @StarCraft Custom Builders gave you above would be helpful.

Adding to the above, KWC's current finish is electroplated stainless steel.

Can you send me a link to the faucet you are referring to that is identical to the Livello? Thank You.

I dont know what to make of the words “solid stainless steel” if they don’t mean what they mean.

@eam44

"StarCraft, can you tell me if the Delta faucets always use a plastic spray head?"

Probably. That seems to be the way the industry is going.

@eam44 Look more closely at the specification sheet for the KWC Livello. This faucet is made of brass. The finish is stainless steel. Stainless steel can be present because the entire faucet is made of stainless steel such as in the case of the famous MGS faucets (check MGS's Spin or Nemo models similar to the Livello), but this is not so with KWC. The KWC stainless steel finish is electroplated as @StarCraft Custom Builders noted in a previous comment. This is not as durable as if it were applied via PVD coating or if the entire faucet were stainless steel. Yes, the tiny layer on top of the brass probably is all stainless steel, but how it was applied makes a world of difference. I did locate the KWC review of finish peeling that I bookmarked a while back and see now that it referred to a chrome finish, but chrome is also often done with electroplating, so I'd research the durabiliy of electroplating before committing. If I were you, I'd also read other reviews of not just Livello but other KWC faucets on sites like Amazon, Build, and Quality Bath. You'll learn a lot about the mechanics of a particular brand that way, and KWC has garnered plenty of reviews to peruse. The "Edge" line of In2Aqua features the more sleek styling closest to Livello, and I do apologize as there is not an identical match on this faucet because the one I had remembered was a bath style that does not feature a pull-out wand. You can put bath faucets in the kitchen but mentioned you wanted a pull-out. Many of the KWC and In2Aqua styles do have equivalents which I assumed was due to the president of KWC founding In2Aqua and bringing trade secrets with him. Once again I will encourage you to review the @StarCraft Custom Builders list given above to direct you to faucets made of stainless steel rather than brass if that is your criteria.

Thanks again StarCraft. I never dreamed it would be so difficult to find a faucet I like that is solid brass or solid stainless steel.

@eam44 As noted, the MGS is solid stainless steel and has styles I named in the previous comment that are similar to Livello. Solid brass isn't too hard to find, but a brass exterior finish is soft and called a "living finish" with special care required. Waterstone is one of the better-known producers of all-brass faucets.

Eam44, I think I got the Solna with the stainless finish. I have an inexpensive American Standard pull down (or out — I get them confused) in my current kitchen. The extra hose is under the sink and is constantly getting caught on the plumbing under the sink so it is always a struggle to pull it out. So - whatever you get- make sure things are set up so this doesn’t happen. I intend to get the hose cordoned off in its own little area under the sink in my new kitchen. (Guess I could still do that in my current kitchen, but ...).

If you like raw brass, it has that anti-germ thing going for it. I didn’t know about that when I made my kitchen faucet and cabinet pull selections. Now that I know, I’m thinking about the brass for the house door levers and pocket door pulls. At first, I didn’t like the patina (if you google it, you can find sites that will show you representative color changes over time), but I’m kind of warming up to it.

Thanks mtpo, and belaria/back. I’ll look into the MGS!

@eam44 curious if you ever ended up finding a low/no-lead kitchen faucet? i'm on the same search right now...... i've been perusing @StarCraft Custom Builders reviews which are SO helpful.... while MGS and waterstone would be ideal for a solid stainless option, i don't think thats in the budget right now. considering Brizo and Hansgrohe....

Hi @Kathryn B I'm still looking. I was considering Brizio (Litze) and (gulp) Waterstone Parche, but I'd have to sell a kidney to afford the latter and there aren't a lot of features, and my aesthetic is more modern than theirs..

I spent 2 grand on my sink, which is still sitting in its crate in my garage. My decision making is on the back burner a bit lately. Let me know what you end up with. Good luck with your hunt.

I so relate to the frustration/confusion @eam44 funny bc i def was looking at that same

waterstone and right now the same brizo is my front runner! Ill prob do a Brizo and then be more specific re my water filter spout