When the Dallas county judge announced shelter in place orders yesterday, he encouraged people to get outdoors for exercise but to maintain the 6 feet of separation. He said if you saw people walking together on a trail that were not distancing, you should gently remind them to move apart. If DH and I get out to walk, we will certainly walk side by side since we LIVE together, so I would hope people use good judgment instead of calling out everyone they see in close contact. That said, if you don't live with them, you need to stay away from them. I suppose it's possible that some of the close contact is among people who think it's all an overblown reaction or worse, a hoax, and in that case... yeah. You can't fix stupid.

I hope that when you are walking with your friends your group is keeping at least 6’ from one another. At all times.

Seems like every time I try to stay six feet from others outside or in a store, some oblivious idiot walks between us. Yesterday I walked around the block and chatted with a neighbor, six feet away. When she suddenly walked right past me, within inches. WTF!

I have seen some people out walking and maintaining distance. I am presuming those who walk alongside each other are family or live together, but I kind of doubt that they all are.

This is why we all need hoop skirts now. 😊

Yes, when I walk with a friend we are 6' apart and try to maintain that all times although I can get engrossed in a conversation and possibly forget and move closer but I won't touch them! I'm trying not to be judgemental of others but much of what I see is selfish nonchalance.

Walking outdoors is important to me, both physically and mentally. Yesterday I saw so many more people out walking in my neighborhood than I've ever seen before. The sidewalks don't provide 6 ft. of separation when passing others, so, rather than waiting for them, I usually cross the street, and continue on. A lot of zigzagging.

I *think* what is getting to people (the ones who are trying to sneak around the quarantine) is that yes, it is horribly selfish to not just stay home for two weeks. The problem is when you get people saying, “this might go on for 3 months,”...it just feels so hopeless. People become fatalistic. Humans crave interaction....it’s in our DNA, it’s how we survived as cave people. I get it. I’m not out socializing, but I get that feeling of hopelessness. I can do ANYTHING for 2-3 weeks. I genuinely fear for my mental health if this is a 3 month thing. I’ll do it, but I may not be the same person I was at the end of it.

I can see why everyone is so confused. The wording is confusing, (shelter-in-place, non-life sustaining, essential business, non-essential business, groups of 50 or more, groups of 10 or more, no more than 2 people to gather at a time, self-isolation, home-quarantine...). Plus different regions within the same state have different way of trying to control movement.

I am in Allegheny County and we are red on the PA map in number of confirmed cases. My DH went to run trails yesterday and he said the County park was packed and he had a hard time finding a place to park just to get to a private trail.

It's going to get more difficult to keep people away from each other the longer this goes on and the nicer the weather gets. IMO the Federal Govt. should have taken more drastic country-wide steps earlier. Now it's everywhere so more people are going to get really sick, businesses will remain closed longer, more people will lose jobs (my DS was furloughed last Thurs), and the economy will continue to crumble.

This is such a "hoax", right!

I have a friend in the medical field, also her son is one of my son's best friends, who stated she only wanted her son getting with one friend, my son. I don't want them getting together at all. I feel like she could be a carrier bringing it home to her family. It's hard for teenagers, but I do feel like those around here are pretty good about staying away from each other.

I'm in a lockdown state, and I'm taking it seriously and following the instructions. I see people around me who believe the rules don't apply to them, and it makes me angry. I walked with a friend yesterday who's a hospital nurse on her precious day off, and I stayed 6 feet away from her (she on the sidewalk, I was on the street).

I'm trying to focus on the positive. And little funnies along the way...

I've always loved hoop skirts. They may make it difficult to get through doorways, but if you are wearing the right underwear (as in The King and I), I guess you could turn the skirt sideways to get through.

There are just those people who think rules never apply to them. Kind of like the mountain climber, who knows the forecast is for heavy snow and wind, but climbs the mountain anyway, only to scream for help and, sadly, one of the rescue team dies saving him.

Then, of course, there are those who are just plain stupid.

Yesterday, on another post, I wrote, “just follow the rules, no exceptions” and boy, was I called out. Commentator said (about me) that I wrote “the most frightening thing I (he) have ever read”.

I’m assuming that he is either one who thinks rules do not apply to him or he is plain stupid.

Can one be stupid and rude at the same time?

I know 2 people who have stated--to me--they believe the virus is either a hoax, or being completely exaggerated. A few others have demonstrated at least a disregard for it based on their actions.

Lots more people walking in my neighborhood. We are rural and don't have sidewalks, but it's nice to see people talking to each other from different sides of the street. Saw a truck come through yesterday (neighbor) who stopped to talk to another neighbor walking, but the walker stayed on the grass (above the curb) a good distance from the vehicle.

I have seen on Facebook, a couple of people, not calling it a hoax, but pressing the envelope about they are not taking it seriously. I ignore them, and hope others do too.

I do think people have a limit as to how long they will do this. Just an observation.

I agree, Mtnrdredux. It's simply not sustainable. And this is why, in my state, our governor's early lockdown was extreme but best. But we all need to do it together or it doesn't work.

After this is all said and done, I suspect we will have a future task force to work on pandemic response that will be based on the stupidity and disregard of a few. Kinda like how we take off shoes and give up water bottles at airport security.

Can we PLEASE keep these post from becoming political? This is our safe place to discuss things and help our stress levels. We all know Hot Topics is the opposite of Dec Convo. TIA

Bumble, people with that behavior are not going to help the situation. A good source told me this morning that the National Guard called out are helping to set up overflow areas for hospitals in vacant buildings and parking decks. Vanderbilt Hospital (TN) has been setting up overflow area in their parking garages. I don't know the IG poster, but do know the DNP/CNM that shared it on her FB page, who also shared this article, Hold the Line which discusses keeping your at home/shelter in place group as "one" and not venturing out or cheating, and trying to justify it to themselves.

I know several people personally who believe this is all a hoax. Just because you may not know anyone who claims this doesn't mean they don't exist. They do, and they scare the hell out of me.

It's definitely not a hoax! Whoever believes that scares me too!

White House notification about the 15 day plan

The 15 day plan started 7 days ago.

Today...

” (REUTERS) - PRESIDENT Donald Trump said on Sunday the United States will make a decision at the end of a 15-day period on "which way we want to go", to curb the spread of the coronavirus.

"We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself," he said on Twitter. He did not elaborate.”

eta: ??? This now makes no sense because people have deleted their posts.

My dh and I stopped walking together. We were getting hostile stares and people yelling '6 feet!'. It's all good though... I think we need the social distance from each other. I walk in the morning and he walks in the afternoon. Gives both of us a break.

In what universe did the 15 day plan start a week ago when no national order to stay home has been put in place?

Part of the problem is that so many people want to go outside to public places but when everyone else has the same idea, it‘s rather impossible to maintain social distancing. Like in Washington DC where everyone decided it was a good idea over the weekend to go see the cherry blossoms. Sorry, folks, I know you need exercise and fresh air, but this is NOT helping. Obviously this is going to be harder for people who live in densely populated areas. But just yesterday a friend was posting pictures of her family going to see the cherry blossoms, a 45 minute drive from her beautiful waterfront home on more than an acre of land. I know we are all antsy but she and her family have plenty of space at home to get fresh air and exercise.

My neighborhood does not have much car traffic as we are at the bottom of a peninsula. We also don’t have sidewalks so everyone walks in the street. More people out than usual walking dogs, etc, but enough room to pass each other in the street and maintain 6’ of space thankfully. Judging from comments on my neighborhood FB page, we are all taking this seriously (at least those who are posting; it has been very neighborly so far). I had to laugh the other day b/c I heard Dh outside talking to our neighbor next door from our back deck. While we are on friendly terms, we are not friends but lately, they have been talking across the fence more frequently. When Dh came inside, Dh said exactly what I was thinking - “he’s becoming my new best friend.” 😬

I went for a walk with GF yesterday and we walked probably not 6' but maybe 4' apart and we talked. That didn't bother me as mostly we're looking ahead or down as we talked...what bothered me was the couple in front who weren't walking as quickly and we were downwind from them....we skedaddled to pass them and keep going...not sure how the breeze will carry droplets.

I had to go out today to drop off a form for a tenant who is trying to get help paying her rent, so I decided to stop at the grocery store and not waste a trip. I wanted to see if a couple of things I couldn't get during the school closing/panic buying had been restocked. Still no saltine crackers (is everyone eating them with their PB or canned soup?), or baking powder, but fruits, vegetables, dairy and eggs were all restocked. (Limit 3 egg products.)

The store is out of the disinfecting wipes they usually have for the cart handles, but I'd anticipated that, and had a pack of homemade wipes in my pocket. I don't know if the store is disinfecting the carts, but when I asked about the wipes, an employee didn't volunteer any info.

I'd locked my purse in the car trunk and took only my credit card. I have long resisted putting grocery purchases on my credit card, but this way I'm not handling returned change. I live in a swath of counties with no reported cases of coronavirus, but I am following the social distancing--have been even before it was ordered. I noticed that almost everyone was business-like, not making conversation or much eye contact, except for a group of 4 or 5 people who were having a chat in the middle of one of the wider aisles. I got the impression that they thought the rest of us were 'overreacting to this blown-out-of-proportion situation.'

One older fellow in another aisle asked me if I knew where the flour was, so I told him as I was stepping back to a safer distance. About half-way down the baking aisle, I heard a hefty sneeze a ways behind me. It was as if everything stopped--I turned around and people were staring at an older woman, who had on cotton gloves. She had a gloved hand to her face, but I couldn't tell if she'd sneezed into her elbow or hand. At least she was facing the opposite direction. I said, 'Bless you!'' and headed out of that aisle.

There were many check-out stations open, so I didn't have to wait in line--but how do you put the card in the card-reader without getting too close to the check-out person? One of the baggers came over and started moving items from my cart to the conveyor; I had to say, "Thank you, I've got it." twice, to get him out of my space, but he finally took the hint. I felt kind of bad, because I see him there often. I also don't like the self check-out, but I might need to adjust my attitude there, too.

Mama goose When I needed to go to store I put my phone in a baggie and paid by tapping.

The only social activity I still do is going to the dog park, we are all avoiding each other (like the plague..HA!) and staying way far away. We are outside at the park. We have a group of about 8 that go to a dog park that is huge, well over an acre. So far, they aren't making a deal of pets passing it around...I'm sure it will be next. They are encouraging us to still go to the park and outside walking, just STAY AWAY from each other...IT'S AN ORDER! They will be enforcing (so they say) the 6 ft away law! I'm in the Mike DeWine state! He ain't messin' around!

Risk science. The risk of a given incident resulting in you getting corona virus may be low, but the more times you expose yourself to that risk, the higher the likelihood of you catching it will be. One cannot guarantee that any given event will result in exposure, and it is not reasonably possible to calculate it for a given particular event in your particular life. The risk level rises exponentially as more and more people are sick and not socially isolating, as well as sick who have to go to work, and asymptomatic people. But those exposures have as much as a two week lag time in showing up as sickness. So let's say each social contact has a tiny risk, we'll call that "t" and we'll use "S" to represent a social contact. So one social contact, with a tiny risk, and then another and another, St + St + St . . . and on and on the more you do. But what you didn't know, is that the risk in your case was not actually tiny, it was HUGE because you were in contact with asymptomatic people who had the virus, or folks with low level symptoms. And then each time you engage in the risk, you compound the likelihood that you will get sick. However, there is no direct cause and effect, no direct certainty what the outcome will be. So you may feel fine that the risk is only 3%, which means 3 out of a hundred will get sick (BTW this is made up, corona virus has a 40-70% infection rate) and you will continue to feel fine about that level of risk until you are one of the three. But this is the way humans always have in general handled risk. That's why they keep smoking and engage in unprotected sex and a whole bunch of other activities. If the risk isn't inherently there, but could occur some time in the future, they tend to go with what is right in front of their face and keep going. And then there's the folks who keep going anyway, they are risk takers.

I actually know of two people who have very responsible parents who knew that the pill was 99% effective, and yet still engaged in what they reasonably thought was "safe sex." They owe there existence to 1% being very low risk . . . (to put a positive spin on it!)

I'm in CA and we've been in an ordered shelter in place for several days. It's been very frustrating to see groups of teens congregating at our parks, playing basketball, soccer, etc.. The police are doing their best to halt this activity with constant reminders, patrols and many pleas on our local social media. Gov. Newson repeatedly asking the same. I know most of these kids I've been seeing and their parents are now working from home. Some people just don't get it!

I went to Costco and Whole Foods this morning and must say they are doing a wonderful job in trying to keep us safer. Both are giving (and requiring) each person a wipe for their hands and another for their carts. Check stands are wiped down after each customer and cashiers also sanitize their hands. Thankfully Costco will not be allowing returns of TP, paper towels, sanitizing wipes, water and rice. I understand Target will be doing the same. The Safeway store that I frequent has blue tape on the floor to indicate a 6 foot distance at check out stands, it spans about half way down each aisle because the lines are so long. An employee walks through periodically to remind everyone to stay on their blue line.

Over the weekend, people were partying on the beaches like it was 1999! HA!

^^^I know! I just saw a instagram pic of a couple of kids from my son's school at the beach. I would have been embarrassed to post it! What are their parents thinking? And here, I thought we were being pretty good around here.

Actually, I say that, but I do live in a college town where spring breakers will be coming back and have been coming back. Lots of Texans go to school here, so I'm sure Texas will see an even more uptick too.

@maddielee I deleted one of my posts because somehow it posted with my real name. But all I had asked was 'are you kidding' in relation to calling this a hoax. It does get confusing.

Are police not issuing citations for those who flaunt the shelter in place orders? I know it's got to be difficult to enforce, but it seems like punitive measures would be a strong deterrent. If not for the kids who are out congregating, then surely for their parents who are ultimately responsible for them.

I have recently been watching the daily updates from this doctor in the UK, but he also has subject specific videos, and he's very clear and informative. I'm learning a lot from him.

Dr. John Campbell on Social Distancing

and on how the virus survives, more recent:

Viral aerosol & surface survival

Ida, I don't think they have the orders everywhere, just some states. Others states haven't yet done this. I know that Mike DeWine, governor of Ohio, was one of the first to start closing things. We can still go to essential places and essential travel.

A suggestion to stay home is not an order. Our county just turned away from the mayor’s (Tampa) hope of a stay in place declaration. The county may enforce curfews in a few days...

I think some younger people sort of "want" to get the virus thinking they will survive it and get immunity. If that was just an issue for them, I would say it makes sense. But they will transmit it to those who are much less likely to survive. I would think most young people have someone like that in their lives if they think about it.

In New York they have said that individuals won't be fined for not following the guidelines but businesses will. Have any of you seen this:

https://bestlifeonline.com/italian-mayors-quarantine-viral-video/

I just came home from a solo walk, most of the way was on a sidewalk that's about 9 ft wide, so it was easy to keep a 6 ft distance from other walkers. (I only saw less than a dozen people on my five mile walk) But there were three women walking almost shoulder to shoulder coming towards me, basically leaving just a narrow bit of sidewalk. I crossed the street to avoid them.

I just want to know who decides, and how they decide, when this is OVER......I have heard it could take a year plus for vaccination ( and I am not willing to get right in line for that, anyway), and even then, just like flu, we have that mutating target......We wil never be without this, so when do we call it?? I bet it’s when everybody says, “forget it”, and goes back to their normal lives, if they still have a job.

There was a very good interview on NPR this a.m. where Inskeep was asking those kind of longer term strategy questions.

The short answer was, we won't be back to normal until we have a vaccine which could take 12-18 months. (The doctors interviewed did not talk about the prospect of treatments which may make the disease less deadly.)

In the meantime, we will eventually move to more of the state that S Korea is in with lots of testing, track and trace, a significant slowdown in the acquisition of the disease, and most of us operating more normally though not completely, as we will still have hot spots popping up that will have to be dealt with quickly and significantly. But hopefully by then we will have more equipment, more and faster tests, and more capacity to handle those situations as they occur.

It's all so hodge-podge and seemingly random. A "suggestion" is not going to get people to take it seriously. Esp. when the "suggestion" is for a county or a city - the virus does not care about jurisdictions.

For example, my DHs company was considered essential and will probably be considered life-sustaining so they will probably remain operating (for now). However, the company is located in a different county than the majority of people that work there. So, he goes to work from Allegheny Ct (which just got a "Stay-at-Home order) and others go to work from Westmoreland Ct (that has no specific orders) but the facility is in Butler Ct. All those people traveling everyday to and from work will need to stop for gas and food and when they leave Allegheny Ct they are much more free to do things in the public in the other counties. So, the spread goes on and on.

The 15-day plan refers to this from the CDC. It seemingly relies on collective cooperation, which is not occurring.

My state first shut down colleges and universities (which made sense because kids were going to/coming back from spring break). Next, they shut down k-12 schools, which initially made no sense when the news the next day showed revelers out at bars and restaurants at pre-St. Pat celebrations. Personally, I didn't understand why we were closing schools but allowing families to hang out in McDonald's playlands and go to libraries, etc. Our governor announced a statewide closing of bars and restaurants the Sunday before St. Pat's, and then less than a week later, our current stay-at-home orders. It's too early to tell based on numbers here, but the goal is to lessen the spread, especially since we are now learning about more infections among first-responders.

If the spread slows, it's because of the responsible actions of many. But any continued spread--especially after about 2 weeks from now--will likely be the result of those who have not been following the recommendations in place.

I battled this with my kids last weekend, who wanted to go out and visit old friends who are now in town. I told each of them outright: you are not an essential worker, and you don't need to go out for essential supplies... Just Stay Home. There are many people who are making sacrifices for the greater good. You are not an exception to the rules.

Just Stay Home. There are many people who are making sacrifices for the greater good. You are not an exception to the rules.

That should be printed out and taped to every door to the outside in every house and apartment. In fact, if it's ok with you feathers, I'm going to use that for my fb photo.

Feel free, DLM. My original version for my kids was interspersed with a few more curse words, but that was the gist of it. ;-)

At a time like this the curse words might help it hit home. I have a good curse-abulary so I know just which one to use and where.

I wish a scientist could go in and reconfigure the virus at least so it would show up as a putrid green colour as it sprayed out of our mouths Etc. Then maybe our ewwww gross reflex would come out more quickly and we would distance ourselves. Or Maybe someone should invent something that shines on everyone and makes the covid 19 noticeable in an unbecoming colour. Widespread reaction is what we need to the SARS 2 danger right now.

"I do think people have a limit as to how long they will do this. Just an observation"

If the virus levels out with the # of those testing positive and the number of deaths, I might agree. But for all the naysayers, when their mother, or neighbor, or teenage friend dies from the virus, think that's going to provide some pretty good impetus to comply for them.

Walking close to one another WITHOUT TALKING (or sneezing and coughing) won't transmit the virus. It needs to be coming from the infected person's respiratory system via DROPLETS (so it's not aerosilized, like in tiny particles in the air)