Do you have oil in your dough?

I've tried the dough with and without oil. Doesn't seem to make a difference. Not using a stone, just a thin steel pan, placed directly on the top oven shelf. Maybe it gets too hot anyway?

But yes, I lightly oil the pan before placing the dough on it. Can't imagine my oven reaches anywhere 500F. It's pushing to reach 400F.

I might try resting the dough in the fridge for a day or 2, but that's difficult, as I always make pizzas on a whim, not planned ahead. Also might forget that 2nd (quick) punch and knead. And let it rest a while in the pan before putting it in the oven.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know how the next one turns out...

You are frying your pizza on that metal pan with the oil. A stone will give you better results, but if you don't have one, try putting a generous layer of cornmeal on the pizza pan before you put the dough on it.
Resting the dough won't do a thing for the cracker like crispy bottom but it will give you a better flavor.
Also, maybe your oven is't hot enough.....and you are having to cook the pizza too long and drying out the crust. How long are you cooking the pizza? Should be done in about 12 minutes.

You can try adding a little dried milk powder to your recipe. That will help to soften the dough. I always add some olive oil. Remember. The wetter, the better!

I think lindac92 has hit on it. I need to cook for around 20 minutes, so yes, probably overcooking the base. Will try the cornmeal. And the milk powder.

Thank you all!

Just looked at pizza stones online. But wouldn't that be hotter than my current pan? And burn the base more? I can't see how it would speed up the cooking of the toppings, or does it? My oven won't go hotter than it currently does.

Assuming it would solve my problem, does this one look good?

Pizza Stone

I use semolina flour instead of cornmeal - I do not want my pizza to taste like a tortilla.

I struggle to get a crispy bottom on my pizza - that is what I prefer, but mine generally come out soft.

As for the pizza stone - I would get one that is a bit thicker and without handles. It is a stone, not a pan.

You can also check out the Pizza Making Forum. I've gotten a lot of help there.

There are a lot of factors that are interdependent. You may have to do a lot of experimenting. With a max 400 oven, I'd guess your dough needs more water. You also don't need to prove your yeast with sugar if it isn't particularly old and hasn't been sitting in the heat. Since you're after a quick rise in the oven, perhaps you're putting your dough in just when the yeast want to nap. Something to try is just dumping it in with the flour and water.

Re fridge, I was just telling you what I do regarding resting. I also think my particular, idiosyncratic recipe is at its very best after two days in the fridge, but it's just fine after the half hour or so of rest. There's no reason not to make your spontaneous pizza. You have plenty of yeast, I'd think. It's just a matter of getting it poofing at the right moment.

Oiling the pan just enough so the dough doesn't stick, but no extra, should give you a crunchy bottom rather than a leathery or soft bottom, but not crispy cookie-ish, or fried. You need enough oil to move around to get fried crust.

You might also consider a pizza steel, or making the pizza on an inverted cast iron pan. Heat either with the oven and slide the pizza onto it. The heat of the mass of stone (which is actually dense clay) or iron will help give you the oven spring. Iff you use parchment paper, it'll help with the sliding (use a cutting board if you don't have a peel), and it'll keep in sone of the moisture and help with a softer bottom.

How long are you preheating your oven? One of my ovens takes about half an hour to get "pizza hot". The red light goes off....but it's not really hot enough.

That stone isn't big enough to hold any kind of heat....and will break very easily. I am a slow learner....I bought and broke one twice!
Try unglazed quarry tiles...the kind meant for floors.

Re stone vs your pan. With a thin metal pan, when the oven element is on, the heat is much greater than the thermostat setting, then the element turns off. A stone buffers the hot-hotter thing going on with a steel pan.

A local tile store used to sell unglazed tiles for use in the oven. Used to, because the owners retired.

I agree with the comments on the "stone" you linked. It's not really a stone. More of a clay "pan". The point of a pizza stone is the thermal mass. Mine is an inch or more thick and has a special assembly made for my oven. There are plenty of thinner, lighter ones on the market that work fine, which are only half an inch thick. The tiles work equally well and should be just as thick. They can cost a little less and be easier to store, but not as easy to find in the proper density in a size that fits right.

Most of the people I know who use tiles are DIYers who have no trouble cutting them to fit. Whatever you use should be heavy, and has to cool in the oven before removing. Some keep theirs in the oven always, which if the oven is used several times daily can keep the whole oven more evenly heated, and reduce preheat times. If the oven is started cold, with the stone fully cool, heating will take longer and use a lot more energy with minimal benefit other than not having to move and store the stone. Keeping it in the oven is not recommended for moden electronically controlled ovens. The stone should always go on a rack, not on the oven floor.

The Pizza Steel is very heavy, but isn't breakable, and can be versitile. You can get a vinyl case for it (mine is recycled billboard fabric, but I don't know if they still use that). The handles of the case make it much easier to move around, and store. I haven't used it much for pizza, but it works very well. I do use it when I want to use top heat on the toppings, because it can sit much higher in my oven than the oven's special pizza stone assembly. Regular pizza stones can also sit higher. The steel is just an alternative material, if you don't have my oven.

shaxhome, If you were to order pizza from a delivery place, would you order thin, crispy crust, original, or Chicago deep dish? We don't like thin usually or deep dish. I like this recipe. It can be cut in half and I bake it on glass pizza pans. I do not make the sauce, I use the Rao pizza sauce. I like to prebake the dough, add sauce, add grated cheese (5 cheese Italian + mozerella), then what ever toppings we want. It makes a chewy crust. If you like it thinner, keep cutting in half.

https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/homemade_pizza/

Have you tried moving the pan up higher in the oven - away from the bottom heat?

I like a crispy thin crust too. I prebake my crusts and I use oiled parchment paper.

carolb...I always cook my pizzas on the top shelf, figuring it would cook the toppings quicker, before the base got too crisp. Obviously doesn't work for me!

Am about to attempt another one now. I don't have a stone, nor cornmeal. But I have 2 pizza dishes, a 10" one and a 12" one. Going to cook it in the 12", and rest it on top of the 10" one in the oven. Desperate measures, desperate times.

Trouble with heating my (gas) oven for hours is that since October, we've had almost no days below 35C, often 40C+. I live off-grid, no AC. So house becomes unbearably hot.

Believe it or not, I'm normally a very good cook, but this is eluding me. Maybe I should save pizzas as a winter treat...

It took me ages to get my dough right. Just keep experimenting. Where do you live to be so hot?

Hi, Islay. Experiment I will!

Each of the past 4 years here in Australia has been the hottest on record. No let up in sight. Here's our next 7 days' forecast. It's actually cooler than we've been having...ignore the "possible thunderstorm" entries. They just don't happen.

it isn't clear what you are looking for in the perfect pizza. We all look for something different. So many styles. We prefer a blistering top, a crisp bottom crust...but a creamy center, not doughy...all in a thin crust. Very few toppings.

Best advice I read, "watch your dough, not your clock".

I would try a new method/recipe. Or three. You will find it. Your environment, oven, kitchen temp, flour, hydration, all plays into it...

One method is to pre-heat, kick on the broiler for 5 minutes, broiler off just before the pizza goes in. Will work for some but not all ovens. The best teachers give many ways to get you what you want...not just not just a recipe and 10 steps.

A new wall oven 5-6 years ago is so different than what I had before. I don't use a stone anymore. I need to use the 'just above middle rack', not at all close to the top.

My kitchen is 63º this morning. Office 68º. A pizzeria will always be 75-80.

Forkish, 350 grams water

35 grams fine sea salt

0.3 grams instant dried yeast (1/3rd 1/4 teaspoon)

500 grams flour

He has a video showing different crust styles. Thin edge, thick edge, etc. And learned what to look for in the doughs relaxed state, perfect for forming. For refrigeration, giving the dough 4 hours second fermentation before the fridge.

My crusts always contain olive oil.

And I haven't baked any yeasted doughs in awhile, but I used to very often. I recall many things would come out of the oven with a hard crust that would soften as it cooled.

I usually use honey, instead of sugar, in my doughs as well, for moistness, but I didn't like to sweeten my pizza crusts.

I'd try using baking parchment - I think it acts as an insulator. It helps prevent overcooking of the bottoms of baked goods, IMPE.

I've never used olive oil or sugar anywhere near pizza dough. Yes for focaccia. A different dough that does give a crunchy 'cookie' like bottom crust but that is desired. And involves a half potato in the dough. Olive oil will give a cracker like bottom crust.

Most people want the crispy crust! My DH likes it the way you do so I try to compromise to get in between crispy and not crispy. (He calls it chewy which to me sounds really bad!) Your recipe is fine, although I personally would skip the sugar and add some salt (1/2 tsp) instead (NY style).

Try making the pizza in a not-preheated cast iron pan and see if that works for you (semi deep dish). Try lowering your pizza pan's position in the oven - more toward the middle - I think that will help too. Lowering the heat by 25-50 degrees might help. I am not sure if sprinkling with semolina will help make less crispy crust since semolina helps hot air from the oven to go under the pizza and I think would promote crispiness - I always add semolina but I like a little bit of crisp. I would avoid olive oil on the bottom of the pan because that definitely promotes crispiness.

Report card on last night's pizza experiment...

I adopted and adapted much of the excellent advice from the generous people here, and to my taste, achieved a 90% result!

• First, turned on the oven to full bore before making the dough.

• Added around an extra cup of flour to my usual mix. (Who measures?) I think this made a big difference, as the finished pizza had a thicker base with some "chew", not crunch.

• Just threw the granular yeast into the flour, without proving it first. No oil.

• Added more water than I normally would. Got it to a consistency where it was sticky, without quite sticking to my fingers. Into a covered bowl.

• By now, the house was so hot that I went out and sat on the verandah, talking to the kangaroos while the dough was rising.

• An hour later, I just threw the beautifully risen dough onto the pan without a punch and 2nd kneading. No oil on pan.

• Spread onto the pan and added toppings. I only added minimal toppings, as in the past I've been guilty of overloading it, requiring longer cooking time.

• Grated the cheese on the fine side, rather than coarsely. Again, less time to cook.

• Still using top shelf of oven, put in empty 10" pan first, with 12" pizza directly on top of it. It's some insulation, no?

• Just 10 minutes later, time to eat, and it was wonderful! Bottom only slightly crisp, but properly cooked. Dough chewy but cooked through.

• I ate the entire thing in 10 minutes with a glass of nice shiraz, and toasted you all! (Paying for it today, though, as I think the 12 chillies were overkill.)

So a big thank you from me to you!

I'm so loving the mental image of you chilling on the verandah talking to kangaroos!

Congratulations on the improvements and success! Thanks, for an excellent report. And the kangaroos. :)

Success! Hope you've been spared the fires. Love the pic if the kangaroo.