..."The area I want to put this in gets shade even during peak Summer months"...

I would think that is bit of a problem for succulents...

Yes, shade is a problem. Is it shaded all day and does your oil jar have a drain hole? A pic or two of the area might yield some alternatives.

tj

@rina, my aeoniums seem to love shade. It would definitely be a problem for nearly all cactus.

@tsugajunkie Shaded all day long, and of course yes I have a drain hole. I use structured soils and appropriately drain the pot. Photo attached.

That is a beautiful jar!

(Sorry, I have no idea about your climate or outdoor succulents)

You have already mentioned that you grow Aeoniums and that they like the shade - why have you disregarded a tall Aeonium for this pot?

@Andrew, I have a love hate relationship with aeoniums so far. In Winter they are fantastic. In Summer during their dormancy I really hate the level of die-back, and I have actually had some of my most vibrant aeoniums start to rot mid-stem in the middle of Summer, presumably from overwatering. So I hate the pathetic shriveled up look in the Summer, and it is a double insult that even slight overwatering in Summer starts to kill them off. I would like something that looks good in all seasons.

Not a succulent, but very drought tolerant with height and unusual shape. It will need some protection when you get close to freezing temps. They do fine for me as house plants over the winter and on a shaded porch in the summer. Pony Tail Palm, Beaucarnea recurvata.

I don’t really know what an oil jar is, but if that’s it, why hide it? It’s so attractive. I have “elephant food” which has gotten pretty tall, maybe 4 feet, but not sure how well it would do in the shade. Not a succulent, but what about heavenly bamboo? Nice and vertical.

I second Sansevieria.

@Christopher CNC, Ponytail Palms develop a very fat caudex in the bottom. That would definitely get too large for the narrow opening at the top of the pot. Other than that I like the plant.

@socks, Elephant Food would be more of a hanging plant or groundcover, wouldn't it?

I am not trying to hide the oil jar. Exactly the opposite, this is the center of attraction for that part of the garden.

@jstropic, Okay, Sansevieria is worth considering.

Have you joined a local C&S club? There’s usually a fantastic library to use and, better yet, other growers to consult.

@westes Zone 9b California SF Bay A big fat caudex completely filling the top of that oil jar would look totally awesome. Alas I think it would be an effort for you to find a potted one with that fat a base and you wouldn't likely live long enough for one to grow fat enough to fill the whole top of the jar since it will be a potted plant.

For reference this is a ten inch diameter pot showing the height and base of a Ponytail Palm. Your oil jar looks to have a 12" diameter or slightly bigger.

@Christopher CNC, what would be the full formal name for ponytail palm? Is it Agave Beaucarnea Recurvata?

It is Beaucarnea recurvata. Genus/species. That is it for specific ID in formal plant names.

@Christopher CNC Classification of the plant is a real mess:

https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/261

Quoting that article:

"Beaucarnea recurvata is also known as the Ponytail palm, Elephant foot tree or Bottle Palm. These names have also been applied to most of the other commonly grown Beaucarneas as well. However, they are not palms, or even closely related to palms, but members of the Agave family- or at least they used to be. These poor plants have really gone through the ringer when it comes to classification, though, with some botanists putting them in the Lily family, and others putting them in the family Nolinaceae. Many references will use the genus Nolina, not Beaucarnea, in fact (so when looking online for information on these species, one sometimes has to search Nolina as well as Beaucarnea). Here in Davesgarden they are placed in yet another family: Ruscaceae. This is the most recent classification, which now groups a large number of seemingly unrelated and vastly different plants (both in appearances as well as cultivation) based on DNA and lack of some pigment in the seeds. So according to this last taxonomic revision, Beaucarneas are NOT that closely related to Agaves. Sigh. But for purposes of this discussion we will simply consider them agave relatives. This is helpful as their care is not that different from what it would be for most Agaves."

That's the case where reading the details has me knowing even less than before I started. :) I have no idea what the correct classification is now.

@Christopher CNC So given that I am zone 9a and it will be out in the rain and sub-40F temperatures, what is the best soil for this? It looks like it can handle the temperatures so gritty mix might work well? Could it handle a wetter soil that is also fast-draining, such as one that uses peat for the organic component in the mix instead of bark? Aloe seems to thrive in that soil. I have no Agave experience (but wait, it is not an Agave...or is it? :) )

It is related to Asparagus at this point. The botanists have been rather annoying of late rearranging everything cause DNA. It definitely needs a fast draining potting mix. I use a professional growers mix, no bark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaucarnea_recurvata

@Christopher CNC Most professional growers mixes are using peat, which is much more water retentive and has much more water adhesion because peat particles are very small. Gritty mix removes the smaller bark fines and is using only larger particles of bark, so it's a much drier soil.

In additional, structured soils for succulents normally do not use more than 20% to 30% of the soil mix as an organic component. The professional growers mixes often have 40% to 50% peat.

But if you are telling me that this plant survives well in Winter rain and sub-40F in growers mixes, then it must be a nearly indestructible plant.

@Christopher CNC I guess the roots on Ponytail Palm do not go down very far? So for a tall oil vase that is three feet high, I could probably fill the bottom half with lava rock (to save on soil cost and weight), and a 1.5 foot section of soil mix is probably more than enough to support a root system for that plant? I could adjust that to 2 ft soil mix and 1 ft base rock.

I will defer to you on potting mix particulars since I pinky swore - You will not be having house plants. That didn't work out to well. I live in a rainforest, have a very large garden and a strong aversion to watering potted plants. Bark mixes don't cut it for me. I need water in the pot. I'm not afflicted with over watering.

The wet dry cycle of the bay area is like the wet dry cycle in Mexico where it comes from. I would triple check its cold tolerance. I don't worry about bringing them inside until the lows go into the mid 30's. For me that is usually the onset of snow and real cold anyway.

I do consider them a pretty indestructible potted plant for me that I can safely move in and out with the conditions I have.

Do Not put lava rock in the bottom of the pot. That causes the opposite of drainage. It causes flooding. The physics says: cause the adhesion of H2O molecules, a fine textured soil needs to reach 100% saturation before it will drain down to a coarse textured soil like gravel below it.

I can't image the price difference between a foot and a half of lava rock vs a foot and a half of good potting soil is worth the extra effort anyway. One large bag of a growers mix should fill that jar.

@Christopher CNC For an indoor plant I like peat a lot and I can control the watering. Like you, I do not like to water plants. I like a well-draining soil that retains a lot of moisture.

For an outdoor plant that is outside of its ideal environment, I think the plant dictates the soil. There are succulents that will do well in a well-drained peat soil, and there are succulents that would get root rot quickly in that soil.

So the issue with putting rocks below a soil layer is that you raise the perched water table. If your perched water table was going to be six inches, then the new perched water table will be the height of the rock layer plus six inches. That's not inherently a bad thing, as long as you know where your roots are going to grow, and you do not want to rob deep rooting plants of well aerated soil.

With a gritty mix you have a pretty minimal perched water table.

If I were buying the soil from a garden center, then I agree who cares about a little more cost. But gritty mix is such a pain for me to make. I have to filter out the bark. I have to filter out the Turface. It takes way too much time, and I do not enjoy it.

w,

Yes, of the many tree-like Yuccas and Beaucarneas, this will handle cold well, but it doesn't want wet feet.

ETA - you can't go wrong with pumice. The more organic matter you add to the pumice, the less often you'll have to water.

@cactusmcharris, so the two mixes I could choose between for the outdoor planting of ponytail palm would be:

• Gritty mix, made of 30% sized bark (about 1/8 to 1/4"), 35% filtered Turface (removing below 1/20") and 35% stone (about 1/4")
• Peat mix, made of 30% peat, 35% filtered Turface (larger particles about 1/8"), and 35% Pumice (1/8")

The gritty mix is a very dry soil, but that might be just fine in this case because the planting is in shade, and I can put it on automatic watering. So maybe gritty mix is the way to go.

I would only risk using a peat mix on plants that really like wet feet. The way I make this soil it does not carry much of a perched water table, but there is plenty of water adhesion to small particles, so it stays wet longer than gritty mix.

IMO, your pumice particles are too small, and if you're using pumice, there's no need for Turface.