Earlier today, I went to the mobot website, and found information on Dr. Raven. He sounds like quite an interesting man. I think he's going to be talking about ecology, and not gardening, from the sounds of the article. There are so many events that come up that I want to go to, but end up not going to. (I guess I said that already.) I'll let you know if I make it or not. I just looked up the date Elvis died, 8/16/77. DH and I were at the Missouri Botanical Garden that day, in the area for a Jackson Browne concert in Edwardsville, Illinois. We were walking next to a white building of some kind, when they either made the announcement of Elvis's death for those who were there, or else we heard it from a radio that was playing. It was a great place, and the Japanese garden had recently been put in, but it looks like there have been a lot of additions since then. Thanks for the replies, Sue

I have planted chuck hayes gardenia this spring. I purchased them locally after reserching local nurseries. Prices ranged from 29.99 per 1 gallon pot plant to 5.99 per 1 gallon pot plant or 10 for 55.00. I purchased 10 healthy plants at 10 for 55.00. In May I planted one under each window of my house facing north, south, east and west, each plant gets atleast 4 hours to 8 hours sun each day. They are all in bloom at this time with the most enormous double gardenia flowers I have ever seen. I am praying they make it through the winter. I am wondering if I should mulch them this winter with straw or leaves to protect them from the severe weater and winds we experience in delaware. They are all doing extremely well in all exposures. I fertilize them with hollytone and miracle grow.

Thanks Sweeby! I did check your recommendation, it seems that they do not carry the pattern that I am interested in, but they do carry quite a lot of beautiful glass and options for the overall look of the door or cabinet that the glass is ordered for. Very beautiful way to finish a cabinet. I also posted this question on the Kitchens forum since there is far more experience with cabinetry over there and as I expected, I got a few more responses to my question. Here are the replies I received. They're very helpful, which is why I'm copying them here. RE: Have You Ever Heard of the Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cab D Breathe! The glass shouldn't fall out. If you're worried about it, however, there are little clips for securing the glass, and you can add more. You could also nail in a little molding bead. Most important, if you think there will be banging into the glass, get tempered. It costs more, but is harder to break and doesn't get as many shards when it does break. Check your local code. You might have to use tempered, or even wired, in a bathroom, by code, because people slip. I think my glass was installed by my cabinetmakers. They were here at the same time as the glass company was installing my BP backsplash, however, so I'm not 100% sure. Re glass shelves, it depends on what look you want, and what you're going to store. If you want the light to shine through the shelves, you must, of course, have glass shelves. For a beach or cottage look, however, you can just as easily do wood if it has a nicely finished side. Glass shelves might be better for a "formal" look. For a "formal" look, Reeded would be very nice. Glue Chip might be more feminine, however. Any simple, all over pattern would be good. I'd avoid anything that's figural, that is, no bamboo, leaves, raindrops, etc. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by mama_goose (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:15 Are there already plenty of mirrors? With several girls using the bathroom, you might consider another mirror in the door. Here is a link that might be useful: Mirrored cabinet doors thread. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:20 Plllog: Thank you so much for your reply, it sets my mind at ease. Good, practical information. Here is a link to the patterned glass that I'm considering. I don't think it is tempered, however. I just hope it has a timeless appeal. My local glass shop doesn't carry this pattern, so I may have to buy it from the cabinet company, which I'd rather avoid. But at this point I just need to move forward. Any other opinions? What do you think of this pattern? Thanks again! Here is a link that might be useful: Morisco Glass RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by growlery (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:30 One can't say it would never happen. But it wouldn't happen without warning. You'd notice the joints getting loose, the glass jiggling or rattling, the cracks getting wider. This could happen over the years as a normal part of wear and settling. Just take it down long before anything happens, have it fixed put it back up and it should give you many more years of safe service. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by plllog (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 16:53 Cup, I think the pattern is pretty and girly enough, if a bit busy. It's not what I'd choose for "formal", but if you have some Victorian style elements, for instance, it should do well. You can have any glass tempered. The big problem with cabinet glass (as I discovered to my dismay!) is shipping, especially if the lengths are long. Do you live in or near a city? If so you can call around to see if anyone carries your glass. I first saw my glass at a place very near my house, but then they couldn't do it for some reason (I actually think "crazy" was in there somewhere). The cabinetmaker's glass guy wanted a humongous amount extra to have it tempered. Benheim, online, wanted the same amount because it would have to be crated and shipped by common carrier (like furniture) because it was too long for a parcel service. I had a very emotional week whining about it on GW. One of our members here was very helpful. He found a distributor within an hour's drive of me. Also that this pattern is all made by the same place no matter what the name and who sells it. I was in the middle of planning to use my GC to buy it (wholesale) but transport it myself to the temperer, when the GC had the thought that maybe he should ask his glass guys. (Ya think?) They were coming to install my BP backsplash (mirror), and they carry it, so they could just bring it instead of anyone doing any crating. Sigh. Such a simple answer! If you can't find a local shop that carries it, it might be best to let the cabinet company do it. They're crating and shipping your cabinets anyway. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 19:49 plllog: Everything you've said makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for taking the time to post. And Mama Goose, I love those mirrored cabinets, they are wonderful. However, in this small tub/toilet room, when you step out of the tub, there would be the mirrors, and I'm not sure if my girls would be comfortable with that. I'll ask them what they think. It's a great idea, mirrors add so much to any room. Growlery, you are right as well, the glass wouldn't just fall out of the doors one day, we would have some warning.... now why didn't I think of that? Thanks again to all of you for your comments and suggestions. I am grateful for each and every one of them. ~Cupofkindness RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by vickimp (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 19:57 Yes! It happened to us. We have a large TV wall unit with a couple of upper doors with glass inserts. They were held in with plastic clips. Over time, the plastic fatigued and one day my DH opened one of the doors and the glass fell out onto the carpet. If it had hit his foot, or one of our kids, it would have been trouble. In our kitchen, we ordered some of our cabinets with glass inset doors. They came with those same plastic clips. Besides the safety issue, I didn't like the way they looked, so I had our finish carpenter redo them by gluing the glass in and then micronailing in a strip of wood matching the cabinets. Shouldn't go anywhere....I hope. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Wed, Jun 23, 10 at 8:38 Vicki: Egads! I'm glad your husband did not get hurt. Was the glass tempered? I'm wondering if you can special order metal clips (those are what I remember seeing many years ago when I did my kitchen reno. The glass was held in place with rubber-tipped metal clips). Do you know what sort of glue your carpenter used? And the wood strip is a good idea as well... between the two I'm sure your glass is quite safe. I wonder what they did 100 years ago? Thanks again! RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by brickeyee (My Page) on Wed, Jun 23, 10 at 9:01 Very small quarter round was the standard for holding glass in cabinets for only a few hundred years. It still works very well. The only way for the glass to come out is if it is broken. In some cases you actually tape up the glass liberally, then break it if it needs to be removed. This makes it easier to salvage the thin strips without breaking them so they can be used again (important if they are finished to match). Plastic clips are an accident waiting to happen, as are any method that does not lock in as much of the edge as possible. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by growlery (My Page) on Wed, Jun 23, 10 at 13:06 Yes, I have some pieces of old furniture that have quarter rounds holding the glass in. Glass has been in doors and windows for a long, long time. Get good hardware, give everything a little wiggle every once in awhile to check it's in good condition, and there are many, many more things you do every day without thought that are more likely to hurt you, unfortunately. I believe, if this is really troubling you though, there is a 3M security product that is a film, essentially like a large sheet of, I don't know, tape or sticky Saranwrap, that you apply to glass, like doors. It advertises itself as being perfectly transparent, but is apparently not quite enough so for most homeowners. It probably gets blurry and little bubbles etc. But for your purposes, stuck to the back of a textured glass, it might be worth looking into. If someone did smash the glass, it would keep it most/all stick to the film, not loose. It might be a small investment in peace of mind. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by brickeyee (My Page) on Wed, Jun 23, 10 at 16:02 "If someone did smash the glass, it would keep it most/all stick to the film, not loose. It might be a small investment in peace of mind. " It is not going to help much if an entire pane of glass slips out and falls on your foot. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Thu, Jun 24, 10 at 9:21 My thanks to everyone for your replies and all of this helpful information. I'm going to the glass shop today to see what they offer in patterned and tempered glass. I'll keep you posted.

We have a large (4,000+) Freecycle group in my area so you can imagine the number of posts. I have given away several times but have only received once. You have to be sitting on your PC to catch something because with so many members, items are claimed quickly. I am venting and being judgmental here but my ideal give away would be only to people trying to help themselves or someone with an unusual need. What I see very frequently are post like "single mother of (fill in the blank)and one on the way". I really bite my tongue...I mean fingers. One guy smoked the entire time he was picking up while holding a BABY! Plus his car was filled with questionable items that one would normally put out of reach of a small or any child. He explained that he and the baby's mother were getting married and that's why she wanted the flowers that I offered. I wanted to pull back my offer and ask how the baby dealt with the smoke! There, I got it out--Slam me if you must.