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If there is not enough space for a table as drawn, you could eliminate the center cabinets on the dining room wall and install a banquet. Would allow for a table in the space you have. You can keep the flanking cabinetry for storage.

PLEASE excuse the giant mess but this is where our table is currently and it has to stay here.

Hi Kim, Just a quick note to say that I love my microwave drawer and our pantry with pull out shelves works great with labeled baskets/bins in upper part of pantry. Here are some photos. Good luck!!

Thank you @donnatrus! You kitchen looks great and I love the label idea!! I def love organization!!

Sorry autocorrect. “Banquette”

I love the idea of a microwave drawer. We currently have a counter microwave slid into a spot in our island. It works fine, was great for the kids when they were younger. But I think I would have def gone for a drawer if I was designing my kitchen now!

I like the counter next to the fridge. We have one and yes it can be a bit of a catch-all but I try to keep it organized.

Just a note about the under counter oven, I have one, i am 5'8" and I have no problem whatsoever with it being under the counter. I guess it just depends on the person who is using the kitchen.

I think you are getting a lot of great information here. I would like to add few items. 1) Use counter depth refrigerator. This is one mistake I did in our kitchen. it stick out too much. 2) Use range and wall unit with microwave/oven. I would add it on the side of refrigerator. 3) Use 12" base cabinets by your dining table. I would do pantry style cabinets on both side, then 2 regular top with glass doors and lower cabinets (all 12" deep) I will try to find some photos as examples. this way you will instantly gain foot of space and not much less storage. Ideally, and i don't have your overall floor plan, wall with refrigerator should be removed, large island installed with seating and storage. it would make kitchen more useful and workable for large parties.

@sofikbr i love your idea about the 12” cabinets in dining built in. We do have a beverage cooler in the design right now so you think that would work with the 12” lower cabinets? Also I wish sooooo much we could do an island but my kitchen is about 8” to narrow for one!

I absolutely love this thread keep the ideas coming!!! I’m taking them all in!!

some examples, last 2 from one of our past homes. I don't have better pictures but you can see we needed space for barstools and having just 12" base cabinets was perfect.

I love the idea of 12”, but make sure you take some of your larger serving pieces to a showroom and make sure they fit!

I agree about fridge that lines up with cabinet. Sticking out becomes so awkward

I afraid you will need to move beverage cooler by the dishwasher. It will be as close to table as in other location. For sure do all drawers, you can store twice as much in them. I wouldn't worry about large plates in 12" base cabinets, you have lots of other places for them.

I’m a definite counter depth fridge person!! We have 3 growing boys and I hate that I can’t find a large one!! I’m pretty sure the “professional” refrigerators are out bc they are far to wide!

I’ll take any suggestions on appliances as Well!! Lol

I would move the beverage fridge to the other side by the opening that goes to the other room instead of by the window. This way people don’t need to go behind the entire length of the table to get a drink. If you end up using 12” base cabinets for that run, I’d move it to the right of the fridge. Agree about using drawers for based cabinets. I love mine.

I also agree that cabinets to the ceiling look better and give you extra storage for infrequently used items.

Here is my latest kitchen design. I must say I'm way happier with this latest version. The only thing I'm questioning now is the "built in" microwave on the fridge wall. It looks like there is a lot of wasted space there.

I would flip the glass cabinets so they are your ‘inner’ cabinets next to your shelves.

And I highly recommend a microwave drawer. That way it’s under the counter and you have 2ft additional counter space ! I was noticing you don’t have much prep/counter space so I would make that a priority.

Also, just wondering... how big are those openings on either side of the fridge wall? Could you extend the wall a bit on either side? Just thinking that if they are wider openings than needed, even adding a few inches can help with counter space! Maximize counter space wherever you can.

Yes I agree about flipping the glass cabinets!

I’m not a fan of the built in microwave and agree it seems to have a lot of wasted space. I love the drawer idea.

It does not have to be built in. Just continues the countertop and set it on the countertop.

I don't understand the wasted space issue with microwave next to refrigerator, perhaps because I am relatively inexperienced or just dense. Seems to me that the microwave will take the same amount of space regardless of where it is located and the placement decision would be based on convenience and aesthetics (if visual symmetry/balance is a concern).

You also mentioned wanting a larger, counter-depth refrigerator but worry about it being too wide for available space. Can you gain more inches for a larger one by reducing the width of cabinets on the right side of fridge?

What would happen to your overall design (looking at latest version) if the floor-to-ceiling cabinet next to refrigerator moved to the left and lower/upper cabinets with landing space was adjacent to the refrigerator?

1. If space allows could consider using a regular depth refrigerator but recessing it by cutting into the back wall.
2. I’ve seen a microwave take the place of the bottom shelf of a wall cabinet. Allows counter space below it. I’m leaning toward doing this in our kitchen.

@Mari Mine that was definitely my thought but when we opened the wall we found all of our duct work in the wall so it is unfortunate not possible

A drawer microwave below the counter was in the first design but I was afraid I didn’t gave enough lower cabinets. So at the point I need to decide which is more important to me I guess. ‍♀️

@dsgts to me it seems as though a drawer or bigger Cabinet could go below or above the microwave? But Im not a designer so I’m. Not sure if that’s even possible if just sewas like a lot of empty space below and above the built in microwave.

also definitely cant extend either wall we just opened them all up we’re trying to make it as open as we can without taking down the baring wall.

Kim, it definitely comes down to what you think you need more of. I figured you have all the storage on the far wall but so little counter/prep space, hence suggesting gain extra counter space where microwave is!

Also, I would make the cabinet next to current microwave a bank of drawers. So much more functional than a cabinet!

And i would eliminate the wine cubbies on the far wall and increase drawer sizes. Way more functional use of space and personally I don’t like how they look on that wall. Makes it choppy especially with the upper cabinet/shelving variety. Just my 2 cents. :)

Oh, and do you really need the 2nd oven? I would make sure that’s worth the sacrifice of storage (drawers).

Hi Kim, I have the exact layout of the pantry cabinets flanking both sides of my fridge with a microwave in just about the same location. I like that layout as it hides the depth of the fridge and I have not found that 18-21 inch space of width to encumber getting stuff on the counter. I suppose you could have them both on the right side of the fridge and a panel between the fridge and the counter but aesthetically it looks good with those cabinets on both sides. The only think I feel would be nice is some sort of island. even a very narrow one. I always have people in the kitchen and they love hanging around the island while I'm cooking or cleaning. I'd see if you could have a spot in the action zone for someone to cop-a-squat

I like my microwave on the counter. It is easy to load/unload and easy to see the controls. If the microwave dies, I don’t need to consider an existing slot for the new one....whatever I select will fit on the counter.

@mcdb thank you for all of those thoughts I agree aesthetically it looks better flanking the fridge! We are h fortunately 8in to narrow for an island (so the pro’s say) but our plan is to get a longer narrow island (that isn’t permanent) and see if it works for us and if it does we plan to get a custom built island that will be more permanent! I want an island to work soooo much!! We are BIG entertainers with large family's so I would definitely love it if it works!!

Even the temporary islands are lovely now and in a pinch you could always move it somewhere if you're having a highly populated party but then again you might appreciate having that extra counter space in that case. In our first house our kitchen was like a 9' by 9' and everybody crammed in there. I did notice how your space might have enough space but it might feel tight. I guess you could pick one up from a store and return it if it doesn't work. I wouldn't order online as shipping would be crazy pricey if you decided to return it. Everything else looks pretty good :D

I’m thinking about building a movable island from a couple of cabinets-on casters. I originally was going to have a peninsula but the movable Island would fit in 3 different positions depending on how many people are going to be around the kitchen...

I had that same fridge/microwave/pantry wall in my previous house. I loved it - until the microwave died. It can be hell finding a new one that exactly fits the space. That is your first-to-die appliance, so keep that in mind. I love the idea of building a moveable small rolling island.

If you plan on potentially putting in a permanent Island, make sure you plan for electical and anything that needs to be included with a permanent island. In addition to swapping the glass cabinets on that run, I would mmove the beverage fridge to the left side. Maybe instead of the built in fridge, you keep that space with counter (as originally planned) and make the top cabinet shorter with a cubby underneath for a microwave, as shown below.

We had a "built" in made. It is totally portable. I love the pull out shelf for stirring food!!.

kathi_steele's ideas · More Info

kathi_steele's ideas · More Info

Thank you all so much! I took all the ideas and suggestions and have a little bit of an updated design. here :)

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5790620/kitchen-design-help

Hi Kim We're doing our kitchen right now. I was worried that the counter depth fridge wouldn't hold enough so we chose a counter depth seperate fridge and freezer. The fridge is a Thermador 30"column and the freezer is a Thermador 18"column. They are built in next to each other and custom panel ready. We also considered the microwave drawer but then saw the Samsung double wall ovens with the microwave built in to iit.

Laura we have that fridge and freezer and love them. No more losing things in the back of the fridge but plenty of room in the crisper and deli drawers! And the freezer stays organized instead of things falling all over each other.

I would not worry about a “landing area” right next to the refrigerator because the open French doors will prevent you from easily accessing it. I discovered this after buying my FD fridge and ended up putting the microwave next to it and having open counterspace on the other side of the MW. Love your plan!

I live in Europe where there are very small kitchens. The most popular method to have it all is to have one reg oven and one combi oven-microwave. We stack them like in the photo here (not my kitchen unfortunately). That way you can have 2 ovens or an oven and a microwave and save yourself both wall and counter space. Good luck!

Glad you're not doing an island - I'm so sick of them. I prefer tables where people can look at each other rather than sit like strangers at a diner.

Looks like you plan on tile floors. They are so hard to stand on, and the grout lines really get gross. Wood is more "soft", and also, if something spills and you slip on it, it will hurt way less to fall on wood than on tiles. And, less likely to break things that fall on the wood (I recall the mess made when a full glass bottle of olive oil fell on my tile floors - glass shattered everywhere!). It also adds a wonderful warmth to a room that nothing else will, especially if it's left more natural - dark stains hide the dept of the wood, and show all dust, etc.

I LOVED when I had all drawers below my counter top. I think under my sink I still had doors, but that was it. So much more storage, as well as easy access to all that is stored. Trust me, you won't miss doors.

I also love having wood counter tops. Whether it's butcher block, or planks of wood. Easy to clean; if they get damaged over time can easily sand/refinish; much cheaper than rock options and way more environmentally friendly: a lot of earth is being destroyed to harvest the rock, and it still keeps going out of style. Remember when everyone wanted shiny black granite? So much of that rock is going into landfills. Even if your wood counters end up in a landfill someday, they will biodegrade.

I like that your sink plan is for under the counter. My cousin used to say how she loved that design because there was less grout to clean. I wanted that with my reno and the fella I worked with convinced me to not have it. But water would then end up getting on the edge of the sink and going under the counter and leak on my floor.

I rather liked having shelves in my reno, especially as it was a condo and we removed a wall so had open floor plan. I would have my regularly used items on the bottom shelf, and more decorative items on the top shelf. As this was seen from the L/R, I found it more interesting to see that from the other spaces than if it was a wall of cabinets - no matter what cabinet you choose, it's not a decorative addition. I can't tell if your kitchen will be separate or seen from another space/part of the view. Something to ponder if it will be the view from another room...

BTW: I went with a counter depth fridge. My kitchen was custom done. I realized afterwards they could have just moved the cabinet bases further outward and had the counter be deeper for a traditional fridge - they do have more storage room. Might have made the counters too deep though. Just a thought - could be an option.... (Note: I said I don't like islands. This didn't bother me as it was a smaller space to work with, and there were only 2 seats and they weren't side-by-side so I could still look at my guest without straining my neck... The columns were necessary to hide the gas line and electrical lines, not a decor choice...)

before you plan for a drawer microwave, please check the cost! We didn't check before having our cabinets built and are now modifying the drawer space to accommodate a normal microwave.

I would spend more and open it up. Remove the wall on the left and extend the cabinets down the other, including your fridge. Your kitchen table would be on the other side, where the extended cabinets are. Then you could put in a beautiful island and have a more desirable layout for yourself and resale in the future. If you can't do that, have the right side match the left by having white uppers, except have all white cabinets around the fridge. On either side of the sink, the 2 uppers could have glass fronts. Also, make sure all the cabinets go up the the ceiling. Having a space between the upper cabinets and ceiling is distracting and a dust collector. I would also extend your hardwood floors into the kitchen. When choosing a backsplash, bring several samples into the kitchen to make sure they don't clash. Choose something timeless -- no multicolor or multi-material mosaics! Good luck!

There is no place to set things when you take them out of the refrigerator.

I agree with Debbie, consider adjacent counter space for taking things out of the microwave, fridge and oven so you can set them down quickly if needed. Think about where this space is in relation to the doors of these appliances.