You overestimate lawyers' clients.

Your inferiority complex towards white collar professionals is showing again. People don't treat lawyers with deference. This person would probably blow off the lawyer for the tennis date as well.

This person would probably blow off the lawyer for the tennis date as well.

This person would definitely blow off the lawyer for the tennis date as well, in fact, I would argue that he would be quicker to blow off the lawyer than the contractor. Then again, the lawyer is just going to find a way to bill him for it anyway...

Wouldn't it be okay to say....I am currently unable to offer you my services given scheduling and workload issues. you will need to contact me in a ?few months time if your need arises again. That phrasing covers issues known and unknown on both sides of the work /people involved. I have to go out at least a 30 mi radius from my town due to contractor and service pros schedules./ non return of calls....overpricing....impatience w questions. There are issues on both sides...but you are very valuable Joe.....the letter is fine if that's what you wanted to do.

“I’d love to do your project, but I‘m currently on such a tight timeline with my numerous existing projects that I can’t seem to mesh my schedule to yours. Perhaps in a few months, both our schedules will become more relaxed, and we can get together to discuss this.“

This is when a paid in advance, initial consultation booking fee really focuses people on “getting their money’s worth” from your “project assessment” visit. It doesn’t have to be a large fee, just enough to cover your gas and time. Apply it to the overall project if they move forward. You can integrate it with an appointment booking service on your website, and just send your phone screened customers to that to book their appointments.

A specialty in demand service shouldn’t be chasing down people who want to play games.

I would not send that email. Despite that you are right on the various points you mention, the email has a tone of “nyeh nyeh”, and sounds a bit petulant. More importantly, it will not have any effect whatsoever on this client. S/he will not change his/her behavior for you or any other contractor (or lawyer or anyone else). S/he may not even read what you carefully wrote and outlined; instead s/he may hit “delete” after reading your very first sentence, and move on without giving you another thought. You are also burning bridges, and running the risk this person posts your email on Yelp, FB, and Angie’s List. Which will lose you the good clients.

These letters are cathartic to write, but you should not hit the send button Joe.

You never say "[I] went out of my way to accommodate you". I know you probably did, but it's rude to say that. It kinda like putting yourself up on a pedestal. The customer is the important one and you can't get that cocky just because you're good in what you do. I know you're good. Everyone here knows you're good, but you still have to stay humble to some degree. Be proud of your work. But learn a lesson from this. From now on, don't 'go out of your way' to squeeze someone in that has a tough schedule. You should have scheduled him when you really had the time. I've learned personally, the ones that need it done in a HUGE HURRY, are the ones that will stab you in the back the fastest.

I'd go with the "sorry our schedules don't mesh" line and leave the onus on him to contact you later. It makes it clear that your time matters as much as his, and leaves him, not you, with the onus of following up and adjusting his tennis date to work with your availability. If he doesn't like it, no big loss, but no bridges burned, either.

I read this as something Joe wished he could send, not something that he would actually send. Kind of like those Facebook posts where people write "to the glassbowl who cut me off at Lake St, I hope you got to your destination alive. Thanks for scaring my kids!" knowing that the person in question will never read it. I could be wrong, of course. Joe, was this the actual communication?

I definitely know it can be frustrating dealing with someone who seems to be unaccommodating. I offer complimentary consultations, but only M-F 9-5. Once someone signs on with me, I offer evening or weekend appointments, but not for the initial "free" meeting. So when I get push back about it, I just politely suggest that they look at their personal schedules and maybe they have a day off work coming up in the next few weeks or a day when they can leave work early or go in late (if it's work related). It's fair to set expectations about your process and schedule, but not necessary to call them out if they don't want to meet those expectations.

Yes, I sent it and have no regrets. I knew from our first communication that this guy was going to be difficult and feel vindicated that my years of instincts gave me advance warning.

I am sick to death of people disrespecting my time. I'll be 64 in November and I don't need this crap; I'll retire before I'll put up with any more.

Don't even think of not having electricity and clean toilets on your job. I will not be disrespected.

I've been very busy lately. So busy I have to have "estimating day" where all I do all day is quote jobs. From now on, you'll take off work if you have to on my estimating day or no Joe for you. Just like your lawyer.

From now on, you'll take off work if you have to on my estimating day or no Joe for you. Just like your lawyer.

This was said before in jest, but now a more serious take on it. I assure you, that you probably have more clients keep first time appointments with you than an attorney does. I would estimate that at least a third, and probably more, blow off first time consultations with attorneys. In an attorney's day, no time will be as productive as the time set aside for consultations.

People call attorneys and make consultation appointments in the heat of the moment. Days later when they cool off from whatever perceived affront they endured, they are no longer interested in the appointment they made a week ago and just don't show. Attorneys want it that way, the only way to get a same day appointment with an attorney is to get indicted. Other than that, you wait and cool off, cancelling the appointment or not even showing are preferred to lawyers playing therapist. Which is exactly what happens without the cooling off period, they walk in, complain about the injustice, and then leave deciding not to do anything after all.

By the way it is the same for existing clients. Your Aunt Judy died and suddenly updating your Will is the highest priority. A week later and she's been gone for a week and suddenly the appointment you had to have is a lot less important than almost anything else.

Sorry Kristin, but many of us cannot take off work during the week for these types of appointments. In addition, my thoughts would be, "if she isn't willing to meet with me when it's possible for me to meet when she's trying to get my business, then what will she be like if/when I sign on -- even worse b/c now she has my money!"

It's not like it's a medical or family emergency. Some people cannot make bankers hours (9-5), Many of us work 9 hours, at least, a day (8 hours work + 1 hour lunch -- required minimums & not counting commute time (1 hour each way for me with no traffic)). Maybe on a holiday, although not everyone gets the national holidays -- but would you be willing to meet on a holiday or would it be one of your days off and not available as well?

Perfectly said Buehl. What world does Kristin live in where people can just take off from their jobs to meet her?

Time is valuable

Time = $ in business

Free estimates to go out to a site takes time. It costs time & $ to business owners. I know a lot of business owners & contractors changing from a free estimate to a service fee estimate. They will come out for $100 +/- service fee to do a detailed estimate. If the potential client hires them, the credit of the estimate service fee is credited to the cost of the project. If they do not get the job, they keep the fee to cover their time & gas to go out. I think it's fair,imo. If someone pays for a service appointment, they will be more inclined to keep it. It also helps weed out which clients are serious or just "shopping for estimates".

If someone wants a general idea of costs, then a potential client can email photos, plans, contracts ect.

Before going out to a site, ask potential clients to send you these. That way a business owner can determine if it's a good fit & then go. If it is not, politely tell them it's not the best fit, but you might want to try _____ for the job. It will save your time & the potential client's time. It will also help to be more prepared before going on site.

I know a lot of business owners & contractors changing from a free estimate to a service fee estimate. They will come out for $100 +/- service fee to do a detailed estimate.

In my opinion, there are more problems charging service fees for estimates than there are not charging service fees.

First, some people, who would be good high paying customers, will not pay it, I would not pay a contractor for a preliminary meeting or to come look at my job, and I have no problem paying for quality. My thought process being, if you have to charge me $100 to show up at my door it must be because you are showing up at too many doors and not enough jobs, so you are trying to monetize your failure.

Furthermore, I would argue that most people are averse to paying for the unknown. That is why we have estimates to begin with, rather than just saying, "I like your work, just do my job and then bill me." You are really acting counter to the entire reason for the estimating process.

Moreover, your time isn't valuable to me, your services are. All businesses exist to create value for consumers, just because you spend time doing something doesn't mean you create value for consumers doing it. In the end, you create a product or service that trades your time for theirs, using a medium of exchange. So, this is just not a good way to think about business, I know it is popular but that doesn't make it correct.

Finally, the largest problem being, you can't say no. When you charge to work up an estimate, you are prohibited from declining to give an estimate, and further prohibited from any actions in an estimate that are tantamount to declining the job. When you take a fee to work up an estimate you have already created a contract with that client or customer. Attorneys often do free initial consultations because after money is accepted you create an attorney-client relationship, and the attorney becomes responsible for advice given. Without the initial fee there are only limited ethical responsibilities.

artistsharonva,

That's exactly how my company does it. We started charging a home consult/measure fee about 8 years ago (28 Years prior to that, we didn't). But times have changed. We need a way to separate out the serious buyers. We didn't really want to start charging this fee, but we had no choice. The sheer number of leads we get now (with the internet) is crazy. It's not like the old days. The kitchen business has changed a lot over the years.

I am now thinking about a FLEX schedule as it pertains to showroom hours and appointments, but my business partner is so opposed to change...and on the fence about it. I think it keeps up with the times and is a win/win for our staff and our clients. We are open late two evenings and on Saturdays. I'd like to change it to being closed every day at 5pm and until noon on Saturday, with after-hours meeting by appointment. It gives our clients more options of when they can meet. It benefits our staff by getting them home at a more consistent time with their families.

What do you all think? I need to convince my biz partner!

Hrm - I don't think there's anything wrong with 'shopping for estimates.' Any sort of contractor should expect the bid process to be part of business. If a contractor won't come out for a bid, then the lose the opportunity for my business.

@ The Kitchen Place

Get data.

My research is actually in inefficiencies in project acceptance. Believe it or not, what you are describing would actually be what I study only on a smaller scale. I am in a consulting firm with a group of fellow researchers and this is the type of thing we consult on, however, we are typically consulting for much larger businesses.

The data rarely matches our perception of the data and thus your gut will often be wrong. Start collecting data on how many people walk into your showroom and when, then collect data on how many people walked into your showroom before deciding to hire you. If you can get actual data on when they walked into your showroom that would be better, but that is much more difficult to get. The more information you know about which customer spent money versus which customer just took up time, the better your decisions will be.

Start with the end in mind, what makes you happiest and profitable? What do the customers who make you happiest have in common (note:this is not what you perceive but what correlations are there in the data)? Can you change your business to make it more attractive to those who make you happiest?

Wow, thanks bry, for that advice. I'll start keeping track better....and then have a decision on this for the new year.

A design relationship is a partnership that can often last months or over a year. Understanding each other's schedules and processes up front is important before engaging in this relationship. I work on between 15-25 jobs at any given time, so I have to make sure that my clients are willing to accommodate me as much as I accommodate them so that everyone is managed accordingly. My evenings and weekends are reserved for clients that have already signed on with me, and even then my availability is limited. If a potential client is not willing to meet for a FREE consult during my regular business hours, then it's a sure sign that we are not a good fit for each other, which is totally fine. Designers are not one size fits all and finding the right one is as much about the process and service as it is about the design aesthetic.

"if she isn't willing to meet with me when it's possible for me to meet when she's trying to get my business, then what will she be like if/when I sign on -- even worse b/c now she has my money!"

If you call me to set up a consultation, you are trying to get MY service, not the other way around. I don't cold call people to set up free consultations.

If someone can’t find a couple of hours first thing in the morning before they go in, or leave early and do it on their way home, even a couple of weeks out, gosh help them when the remodel project starts! They are going to be the customer that needs complete full service design creation and project management, so they are going to need to find and pay for that high level of service. There are plenty of business models that cater to that. But not everyone wants to do that.

Everyone works. Designers included. Asking for an exception to the schedule right off the bat, with no flexibility in yours? Red flag warning. This is why many places have one night a week where they stay open to 7, or one morning a week that they start at 7. If someone doesn’t want to do that, and is successful, then there must be enough people that find the services worth paying for, or it would change.

People are confusing “estimates” with a design meeting. If you want a “free estimate” then bring in the list of cabinets that you want pricing on. Or a notated elevation. Something that you have already designed. If you want someone to design space and give you a price? That isn’t free. Ditto going to someone’s house to measure. That is purchasing a service. That isn’t providing any type of project estimate.

Bry911 "Moreover, your time isn't valuable to me, your services are"

Exactly why a lot of contractors & businesses charge a service fee to come out. To weed out people who do not value someone elses time.

There are a lot of great clients out there who respect others time. Those are the serious clients that have no problem with a service fee to come out & are often the best clients. "High in demand" Pros who have a high reputation for their skills & trades must reserve their time for serious clients.

Charging service fees is a way to pre-qualify a lead or potential client. If someone scoffs at a $100 +/- for a remodel quote (for example), they're probably going to scoff at the estimate. . There's nothing wrong with getting 2-3 estimates for a job. It's suggested, but expect to pay for it when dealing with a good Pro.

The free estimates are a red flag to me. If they're open to come do a free estimate right away, they are not busy. Good subs are busy & booked up. I have found the subs who low ball, often do subpar work & the client ends up disappointed. You get what you pay for. Hire the best qualified Pro for the job.

I know from past experience. When I got started in the remodeling business, I went on many leads for free estimates. I kept track of all my time & realized I was wasting too much time doing free estimates. Something had to change. So, I started charging a service fee upfront & offered to reimburse it as a credit when hired. I took record of my time & compared to when I was not charging. To my amazement, I was getting hired more often with less time spent. My hiring ratio was great & my pay per hour went up! The only thing I seem to have done was weed out the shoppers looking for just free estimates. Sure, I had a few leads scoff at my fee. But that was ok. No problem. In fact, I was glad to know upfront, so I could focus on the clients who needed me. Not every call is meant to be a client.

There are too many wonderful clients who understand & have no problem paying a $100 +/- to come out. They understand it takes time to come out to a site, measure, work up a price/estimate for labor, materials, ect, & submit an itemized contract. It's still work time, therefore totally acceptable to charge for time used for work. That's good business sense.

Time is $ when it comes to business.

I now work & hire a lot of contactors. Ironically, the best ones I know charge a fee & I have no problem paying it to get the best contractor for that job. It does not bother me, because I am expecting to hire them. To save even more time, I will send them details, photos, & layouts beforehand as well. Sometimes they'll send a general ballpark figure by email to see if it works for both of us before coming. Sometimes it's more than expected & I politely say thank you,but the project can not afford it at this time. So we both did not waste our time meeting. Sometimes, it fits in the budget & then, do I ask a Pro to come on site.

My contractors know I respect them & their time. They know I am a serious client who pays on time for a job well done. I even give out tips if they finish ahead of schedule or did an extra good job or did something extra or if they saved us some $ on the job. Extra effort = extra $ :)

I have many great relationships with many Pros in the remodeling & real estate business as a designer & real estate pro. When I call my Pros, they show up promptly, because I take good care of them. They take good care of my jobs & clients in return. I have a lot of wonderful clients I adore & love to work for. When business is done right & fair, it can be quite rewarding for all. I take pride in making a living making my clients happy & I was able to pay my hired Pro for a job well done. I strive for win/win situations for all. I only hire Pros who strive for the same.

Simply: Treat others the way you want to be treated. It works ;)

Hi, The Kitchen Place,

In regards to your comment,

"I am now thinking about a FLEX schedule as it pertains to showroom hours and appointments, but my business partner is so opposed to change...and on the fence about it. I think it keeps up with the times and is a win/win for our staff and our clients. We are open late two evenings and on Saturdays. I'd like to change it to being closed every day at 5pm and until noon on Saturday, with after-hours meeting by appointment. It gives our clients more options of when they can meet. It benefits our staff by getting them home at a more consistent time with their families."

It depends on your area, competition, & your buying clients.

For example,

In my area, most Kitchen Design places are 9-5 M-F & closed on Sat. There's few open half day on Sat. All closed Sundays. Some, reserve appointments for closed hours. I have also noticed most holiday times, most buying clients are out of town enjoying their holiday not buying kitchens.

Gather some local facts & research to present to your business partner.

• Times other stores are open
• Times clients who come in who end up buying
• Times shoppers come in who do not buy (this is important to track too)
• Check last years sales to know busy seasons
• Check last years sales to know slow seasons

Could also hire a showroom staff to show the showroom when not busy to reserve time for designers to recoop for when the buyers are coming in.

Hopefully that will help you both determine the best time to work to be most efficent & still make same $ or more.

To weed out people who do not value someone elses time.

No one values someone else's time. To demonstrate this, I spent about ten minutes reading your post. I bill out at $180 per hour, so you now owe me $30.

Even an elementary understanding of value creation agrees with me. Sure, you might respect someone's time, as we are empathetic creatures. But you don't value someone else's time unless you want something from them. When you waste the time of the person in line behind you because you are not prepared to order your lunch, you don't turn around and pay them.

----

The only person who values your time is you. Everyone else is interested in some transactional relationship with you. Because you value your time and no one else does, you might fool yourself into believing your time is valuable to others. It is your business, run it any way you want. However, there is a massive amount of research out there that strongly suggests creating value perception for customers will yield far better results than hurdles.

You actually know this already, as the whole reason for using it as a deposit, adding a little more value for their money. However, have you really stopped to ask if that is the value you want to be creating. There are many customer filtering methods that work well.

-----

All successful businesses are so because of differentiation. Sure you can put your business right in the middle of other similar successful businesses and you can do exactly what they do and probably just by the sheer volume of customers eek out a living.

However, I would urge you to not think how you can do what everyone else is doing, think what you can do different that your customers would find appealing. I could give more detailed advice about foot traffic, demographics, displays, etc. but I just started back and am never prepared enough early on to have extra time.

Bry911 , you are a trip to read. I'm game.

"The only person who values your time is you. "

I agree that everyone should value their own time. The only person we can truly control is ourselves & how we react to others. We all have our own rules & boundaries. We all are different in what we want or expect & that's ok. Choosing people to work with or hire that have similar ways usually creates working harmony. I choose to work with others who have mutual respect for eachothers time by their actions, for example showing up on time, responding in a timely manner, paying for services or info to name a few.

Everyone else is interested in some transactional relationship with you. Because you value your time and no one else does, you might fool yourself into believing your time is valuable to others."

Yes, I have been fooled by people I thought valued my time before. Lessons learned along the way. That's when I had to control what I can control & set my own rules/boundaries with others. I disagree that no one else values my time, because I have many great experiences with people in personal & business who proved that they valued mine & I valued theirs. Thankfully, There is still a lot of mutual respectfulful people out there.

"You actually know this already, as the whole reason for using it as a deposit, adding a little more value for their money.

YES

"However, have you really stopped to ask if that is the value you want to be creating."

YES, Absolutely. Information is valuable & takes time to collect. I prefer to be compensated & work with others who value what I offer. Feel free to do free, if that's what you prefer. I do not know of many things that are free in business that is worth anything of true value. I know there's a lot of bait & switch tactics used with free stuff. Some free estimates can sometimes end up costing the buyer more later due to misleading or misrepresentation. For example, I have had clients who shared some of their previous free estimates after I was hired. Knowing free estimates can not be trusted as accurate, I go to the site to find the measures were intentionally wrong to throw others off. That's a horrible thing which I condone & would never do, but I see & hear about it often. Beware of free services.

The old adage " You get what you pay for" is still true today.

There are many customer filtering methods that work well."

YES there are other filtered methods used.

Feel free to share some more filtering methods. It's FREE right? ;) LOL

I disagree that no one else values my time, because I have many great experiences with people in personal & business who proved that they valued mine & I valued theirs. Thankfully, There is still a lot of mutual respectfulful people out there.

With respect, I don't want to hash out behavioral economics with you. Respect and value are different words. Being respectful of someone's time is different than valuing it.

Please note that this particular conversation started when you noted that you charged people for estimates and advised others do the same. I responded that there are some inherent problems with that.

To be enforceable a contract must have value creation on both sides, that is what a contract is, an offer and acceptance for an exchange of consideration with mutuality of obligation by parties with capacity. Simply charging people for estimates is very common and it is also a very common court case and unless you can demonstrate that the customer received something of value then you will lose. So, of course, many industries went to the standard non-refundable deposit model to defeat this. Which is what you recommended, and that is fine.

However, there is a cost to that model, and denying the existence of that cost doesn't serve anyone. I recently contracted with a designer to design several kitchens in a multi unit development project. If the KD told me they wanted to charge me to discuss their proposal, or to come out and measure, I would have told them to pound sand. I am not going to pay you a few hundred dollars for the privilege of paying you a few hundred thousand. If that is a problem, then I guess it is a good thing we avoided each other. I assure you, that I am not the only person who thinks like that.

"Hrm - I don't think there's anything wrong with 'shopping for estimates.' Any sort of contractor should expect the bid process to be part of business. If a contractor won't come out for a bid, then the lose the opportunity for my business."

Free estimates are a trade. You would like me to tell you how much something will cost. I'll trade you that information for your telling me how qualified a buyer you are. You aren't getting an estimate without trading information; that's unfair.

Fortunately, I simply ask potential clients how they got my name. If it's from my local magazine ad, and most are, I already know you are qualified because the magazine doesn't get delivered to people who aren't. That's why my van isn't going to get an advertising wrap. I don't want unqualified dreamers phoning me at a stop light.

I enjoy reading about business theory and appreciate learning about the how's and why's of successful business practices. To me, in the most simplest explanation, a business or contractor that has more work than they can handle has to decide if they want to grow their business to accommodate the work load or if they want to qualify the potential customers they have to ensure they are getting the most value/time spent out of the relationship. Charging for a consultation (not for a detailed estimate...that's another topic) is one way to determine if your potential client is serious, but certainly not fool proof. I chose to limit my availability for initial consultations, but not charge. In other words, when a contractor is in demand, they may not include these qualifications just because they can, but out of necessity to manage their workload. When the contractor is less in demand, they may choose to remove these impediments.

For the consumer, this means you have to do your research to determine if this particular contractor is worth the investment in either time or money. Which is a great thing for the client/contractor relationship because it shows that you are also qualifying the contractor. Working with a contractor is a partnership, and the best partnerships are entered into with mutual respect and understanding of each other's expectations.

Kristen:

I brought this up because most Houzz readers are probably consumers. If they're having trouble getting estimates perhaps this thread may serve as the mirror they need to peer into.

There is a certain irony in this conversation. I am hesitant to point it out, because I am afraid it will create more drama, but I am just going to go for it anyway. Design consultants make their hay when people realize that they need professional help designing or changing their home. I suspect they see many instances of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Business consultants make their hay when people realize they need professional help designing or changing their business. I assure you that they see many instances of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I have worked with one kitchen designer for about four hours as a favor to a friend. They had 3 people and were struggling, now they are doing well and have hired several more. I instantly spotted a problem with their business and it took me a few hours to verify in order to recommend some simple improvements. It was one of the best locations for that type of business I have ever seen, in the middle of a great bobo neighborhood.

My big plan: add a few large windows and change the lighting. Some of the most affluent people in the city walk by their business almost everyday, in fact, there was a crosswalk that was right there, and no one could see what was going on inside.

Joseph, I think you're great. You explain things well, and you've taught us all some lessons about countertops, etc. If you were local to me, I'd absolutely hire you. But -- this time -- you screwed the pooch. You insulted the client (even if he did have it coming), and you did it in writing. Not your best moment.

I thought maybe it was a vent-y wish I could say this type post, but then saw that it wasn't. Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I don't think it was a horrible thing to do. It's been quite obvious to me that Joe knows what he's doing, knows what he's talking about, and has zero trouble getting work (I even recall a client paid to fly him out). If the person who received the email is torked off and then spreads it around to his friends..my guess is those friends would be people similar to the fired client, and any decisions they made to then not hire Joe would be no skin off Joe's nose.

We've hired people twice-once for new windows/installation, and once to side the house. Both times we had to finagle things a little bit w/work to be here, but we did. I can't imagine being so rude and full of myself that I would refuse to accommodate someone I had ask to come to my house-refusing to change a time to engage in a hobby? Seriously? Admitting that I ignored the person trying to find my house b/c I wanted to take another call? Someone like that just strikes me as one who is used to feeling more important than the servants and used to having everyone bust a nut to accommodate them. Please chase after me and beg me to do work for me. Nah.

I think of Joe as a "moody, super talented and arrogant artist" :-) And I bet he'd agree. Sometimes that's what you need or Joe will just say "no soup for you!"

lol The Kitchen Place...

I used to work at a regional art gallery. We worked with a lot of artists. The artistic temperament did not correspond to quality of work, but being difficult toward clients did seem to help their sales.

It made me deeply skeptical of prospective contractors who play hard to get.

That's so interesting LadyDriver. Humans are bizarre. Reminds me of teenage girls that love the 'bad boy' that acts like he doesn't care.

And then there are the customers who take off from work, only to sit and wait for hours and hours for their contractor or landscaper or trades person not to show up, without any notice, call, text, or apology.

I would love to send an email like in the OP, but I never would.

I also limit the times that I would meet with a client -- I've had clients say that they commute to the city for work and cannot meet until 8pm. I offer that I would stay late at my job and they can leave early from theirs and meet at 5:30.

If they don't have flexibility in their schedule, they will not have the time & attention it takes to do a remodel.

When I worked for a storefront showroom all kinds of people would call up and ask for someone to come out and give an estimate. We started charging a "measuring fee" of $100 that would be credited to their cabinet order. Home Depot and Lowe's doesn't even come to your house for free, why should a better showroom?

HAHAHAHAH!!!

I remember at Le Bernadin when Eric Ripert personally ushered a patron to the front door.

She was complaining about her bass & he marched out into the dining room with a whole entire bass and loudly asked her to teach him how to cook it.

This was circa 2001 and we roared with laughter.

Sometimes you need to march 'em right to the door. He got her coat and everything.

@The Kitchen Place and @Lady Driver - I cannot imagine a homeowner wanting to work with a contractor more cause he has “the bad boy” attitude. A volatile angst-ridden artistic temperament - whether faked or not - would be regarded very differently if it were coming from your plumber or whatever.

I think letters like the one in the OP can come from either the contractor or from the homeowner. Similar to what @nosoccermom mentioned, many of us have had the experience with an unresponsive contractor of “you knew I was repeatedly trying to contact you by phone”, or being at the mercy of a contractor’s ever-changing appointment schedule. Or Joe’s comment “my time no less valuable“ could be said to contractors who think their schedule is the only one in the universe and that your work, responsibilities, and time constraints are not important. Like Joe, homeowners are also “sick to death of people disrespecting my time”.

One hopes one discovers these issues during the bidding process when this sort of stuff comes out. I had a windows contractor make an 8:30 am appointment to give me an estimate, and was late. When I called him at 9:00, he said he’d be there in 15 minutes. He showed at 11:00. I was working from home so I was home anyway (which he did not know), but I would not ever have hired him. He seemed oblivious of that, and showed no remorse or concern that he was 2-1/2 hours late. SMH.

Shannon_WI I was thinking more of the fine and finish work.

Some clients don't trust their own taste. They seem to decide what is good based on how important the provider or how expensive the product. If the stonemason (or designer, or finish carpenter, or whoever) is rude, they must be important and a real artist.

It wasn't even a direct comment on OP. I was just reminded of my gallery experience after reading all the comments.

My husband and I owned a business and because we provided exceptional service we were able to be choosy about our clients. We never fired any though, we were just "too busy" to work with them again after the first bad experience.

like Bry,I wouldn't pay a consultation fee for am estimate. simply too many contractors who want the business.

my experience has been the opposite of the op.

in the last few months we've changed siding, windows and gutters, roof, and did landscaping.

1 of 3 contractors who said they were going to come out didn't even bother to show up.

I didn't take it personally. I just kept going until I found the contractor who I could help with and we got the work done

Shannon, I can't imagine anyone wanting a bad boy type either. Just joining in on the fun conversation and making a point about some of the craftsmen out there. I have a wood floor guy that doesn't have the best bed side manner (he's a "no soup for you" type), super grumpy guy but he's the best floor refinisher around....especially if you need patch work.

I'll give a free estimate to anyone out there...just send me your pics or bring in your dimensions. We do free estimates all the time! But if a client wants a in-home meeting, we charge for our time. Usually it's a 20-40 minute drive each way plus an hour (total of 1.5-3 hours). For instance, I just had a woman call me a few days ago...she wasn't ready to pay the $65. She had been to several kitchen places and wasn't happy with any of their designs. She said her kitchen was small (ie vintage 1925) and the designs all looked so builder grade generic....no design thought process at all. And no solutions for her extremely small kitchen. She sent me pics and a few dimensions. I did a design for her in about an hour and sent her my renderings (no layour0. She was ecstatic. I offered her two solutions for her small kitchen that solved the issues...and I made it look special...vintage 1925. I probably shouldn't give away my work/ideas so easily, but hoping I get the job.

I fired a customer today as well. How dare I expect to be paid in a timely manner?

Well, I'm mad on behalf of Joseph Corlett. He's been so generous with his time and expertise on this board. I'd hire him in a minute if he were in my area. So if someone has the opportunity to work with him and doesn't value it -- they deserve to be cut loose.

No one is saying keep the customer, many are noting their is no reason to make that separation so adversarial and contentious.