Paul, I do agree that price is not a minor issue, especially in this economy. I think it could put smaller nurseries in a bind though, isn't that right? Someone posted that nurseries need the support of their customers to stay in business. I can see that point too. I am willing to give support to nurseries and I can adjust my gardening to try to do that. I don't want to give support to a nursery that is not meeting me half way though, and not keeping in mind that all their customers are effected by the economy too and trying to save them money as much as possible. Trying to manipulate me into buying a hanging plant that costs $50. by using a very popular plant only in that hanging basket and eliminating the less expensive six packs of annuals, doesn't make me feel so supportive. I was told that the nursery that went out of business last year was spending what sounded like a small fortune for oil. The owner had been having health issues too, so that made it difficult to just keep up let alone be innovative and in the end, he needed to let it go. Yes, you are correct, changing an existing greenhouse to solar may be very expensive. Constructing one from scratch to begin with might be cost effective in the long run. Ken, I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make about plants not being watered at a box store etc. I wasn't complaining about the lack of expertise at caring for plants there, or expecting any, but a business that allows such losses of their inventory and then passes it along to us. mxk3....yes, I could express some of my dissatisfaction to management at more of these nurseries, but I have already done that at the large nursery that I don't like to shop at, with no effect. Sometimes I think that most people, companies included, don't really want to hear complaints or suggestions and are not very open to doing anything differently then they are doing them. I do respond though to a company that expresses an interest in what their customers have to say.

I really think it sad when you commented on people making nasty, sarcastic comments when posters ask for advise. I don't think it is the norm on this forum, especially compared to many others. Those most willing to help will often be the growers who have been in it for the long haul and most I know enjoy mentoring those who follow in the same footsteps. You've already read other posts about starting up 'backyard' nurseries. Don't confuse honest replies with sarcasm. Even if those replies you receive are not what you want to hear. OK? First of all, I don't know what your vision is. I'm picking up that you'd like to grow with your business as it grows and not put a lot of expenditures into it before the fact. That's not a bad idea because you shall be modifying your goals and plans depending on your successes or lack of them First off, 200 square feet is miniscule for starting a plant business, especially if you are starting off with very common plants everyone else is selling. Your profit is based on what is left over after your costs and you'd be surprised on common bedding plants just how low the return on the dollar can be. They were my 'filler' crops I used to occupy bench space when those specialty crops with a high return on investments weren't filling them. I had to heat half a g'house of pricey crops anyway, so I grew them so the heated space with a constant $ amount of overhead wouldn't be a total waste. If you do grow the 'common crops' then you might want to specialise somehow like offering them already planted in urns or specialty pots. You will not, no way compete with mass producers doing that unless you plan to mass produce and you can't do that without a big up-front investment and mucho moola. Say you don't agree and do it anyway. Say you're making a decent profit on each pot and flat. Good on you........but consider you have a very small inventory and even at top dollar, you will only reap a very small return. You operation has to be at least large enough to make it worth your overhead and time. Since you say that most of the impatiens, marigold and geraniums you see are used in pots, you may want to offer a pot planting service yourself. I used to do a good number of special order pot fills where they'd drop them off, and I'd fill them up and all they had to do was take them home and display them. It's very difficult to use ecologically responsible packaging. It's more expensive and you have to pass that expense along with higher prices. That's something the marigold crowd usually doesn't understand. They're also harder to work with than plastics requiring more bench space and better aeration because the rigid support often collapses over time. You may be able to pitch to the 'green' crowd and pick up customers who don't mind field grown mums or tomato starts wrapped in recycled newspapers. It could be one approach. You can use recycled plastics, reused containers. Again, using old containers will turn some of your consumers off, and it can if not done responsibly introduce diseases. You will be faced with minumum orders sizes for the amount of plants you are going to be buying. IOW you may have to order more geranium cuttings than a 200 sq ft. g'house can accomodate. My suggestion is to partner with another small growers and consolidate your orders to fill the mins. I order my geranium cuttings in anywhere from Mid february to early march, depending on the size pot I wish to place them. That brings us to the heating issue. It was one of my biggest expenses. You'll have to consider it one of your's as well because you'll be running that g'house four months before you make your first sale. If you do things like marigolds, you'll have to consider their day length requirements. Some are day neutral and some aren't. Your greenhouse enviroment will also play greatly in to how long it takes to produce them. You'll find data available, but that is assuming you are heating at optimal levels, and not just keeping them from freezing. For a beginning grower, ordering plugs are much more reliable because it cuts down on your production time and you can order them in any stage you wish, from just sprouted to big enough to bloom I have always recommended people before they ever strike out on their own to have some experience in the business. You are going to need it to produce a good crop realiably and gaining it may as well be on somebody else's nickle. What you want to do isn't impossible, and it sounds like mostly a hobby operation at this point. Just go slowly and don't get in over your head. If you have been selling stuff from a camper, just be aware that you are also obliged to do things like collect sales taxes, and if you are selling perennials you are probably also required to have connections with your state's agricultural departments for inspection at some point. Jumping from a hobby to a money making venture is a legal line in the sand and don't cross it unless you are willing to do it by the book. The penalties are stiff and just not worth it.

Depending on where you live in the Midwest, you may not find Michael Angelo's, I've never even heard of it. I've never purchased or eaten frozen lasagna but my son in law likes the Stouffer's. He heats them up in the microwave for a lunch when he's at work or when he's working in the evening. He always has two, one is never enough, but he's a mechanic with his own garage, so his hours are sometimes long and the work is physically demanding. Also, the Midwest is full of something called Gordon Food Service, they're a warehouse type thing that you don't need to be a member to shop at. They provide food to schools, restaurants, etc. Elery says he's gotten lasagna there and it's "OK". You do have to buy large pans of it, though. Annie

My mother learned how to make phyllo dough and used to do it fairly often when I was young. I remember her making the dough, then rolling it out and spreading it with butter. Then she'd fold it up into a small square and refrigerate overnight. Next day, she'd repeat the whole process: roll out, spread with butter, fold. This process was repeated several days in a row. Then she could roll it out and use it. I'm telling you, that stuff was heaven. But would I go to all that trouble? No way! Ahh... the good ol' days (when my mother cooked and didn't mind all that work!).