Turn it around, what brands do reputable companies in your area install? If you have a long term company you’ve used with good results, what brands do they use/recommend?

Minnesota is a low use climate for AC. I think you're probably best served with entry level 13 SEER / 14 SEER AC system.

Your climate is such that anything above an entry level AC, you are not likely to recoup much energy savings due to low use (probably 3 months of the year you actually run it so you are unlikely to recoup any energy savings from a higher SEER unit to make up the difference in cost.)

Realize any major name brand system typically charge more for parts and in many cases these parts are special order type parts. Lennox, Carrier, Trane, Am. Standard are probably the worse offenders (not in any particular order). Because you live in a low use climate, this system could last you much longer than the norm. So while the new AC will come with a 10 year warranty once that warranty runs out... true cost of ownership can become a reality.

The other thing to keep in mind is also the ability to get parts when you need them. So you want to be sure whatever you select that parts will be available when you need them.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Minn is not Tejas, but it does get both hot and humid. It just doesn't last as long.

Minisplit heat, that's awful advice. Bordering on incompetence. I don't know if you think the nonsense you post will attract customers, it's much more the opposite. If you get clicks, it's only by error.

Proper HVAC sizing is based on heat gain and loss calculations for the specific structure and its location, not Kentucky windage.

Thank you guys. I;m looking at Carrier / Lenox / Trane. The SEER recommendation was really helpful. And your're correct - in Minnesota we run the AC maybe 4 months a year.

My preference for these things is for the mainstream brands you're considering. An authorized dealer with good recommendations will do a good job for you with any equipment but I'm a brand name type of guy. I've had three new systems put in in the past two years in two locations- all Bryants (identical model for model with Carrier equipment with a different name on it, for a few bucks less) - and have been pleased with them.

With 4 months of usage, you can look at your current electrical usage and get an approximate idea as to what the AC amount is. Then you can look at the price difference between a 13-14 SEER and a 15-16. Also single and 2 stage (that decision is more about comfort and zoning). A point of SEER is about 4% energy savings. You can then compute how much money you'll save going to a higher SEER per month for 4 months, and then how many years it would take to make up the price difference between the two models.

agree with Elmer. this idea of mini splits for every application is ridiculous and not helpful...this poster never mentions the visual objections as well. OP has existing ductwork system.

TD

A point of SEER is about 4% energy savings.

There's really more to it than that. Because there can be a wide difference in utility prices or the price you pay per KWH to the utility company. In my location each point can be as much as 10% per point in savings. Of course my location (Katy, Texas) depends on AC upwards of 10 months a year.

For a location like Minnesota it's fairly easy to see what you spend in AC usage. Take your high summer bill (probably July or August) then subtract your moderate temp. month where little to no heating or cooling... probably May for Minnesota if I had to guess. High bill - low bill = AC operating costs.

If this difference is less than a $120 --- I doubt you would ever recoup the difference.

If you tell me what your utility rate is I can give you an 'approximation' what the various SEER levels will cost per month to operate.

The 13 and 14 SEER equipment is typically the low end models of any manufacturer's line. They are manufactured to meet a price point. Equipment which as a 15 and 16 SEER are usually of better quality and have more features. For a little more money you are getting better equipment and higher efficiency.. Equipment with SEER rating above 18 starts to get very expensive. The extra cost is usually is not worth it in the northern states, or places that have lower than average electric rates.

The difference of one SEER point is so small that the variations of summer temperatures and electric rates changes would be greater than any calculated savings. In other words don't make the SEER rating the most important criteria when selecting equipment.

mike, I think this varies by location. For my most recent install a few months ago, the HVAC contractor (who's in the Bryant gold circle or whatever they call it for the top tier of THEIR contractor customers) said I'd be wasting my money to get a high SEER product. That's in a mild temperature area but one where A/C is used through summer and the occasional hot days in other seasons. I got a unit from their mid-range (not lowest) product offering series but it's rated at 14 Seer. It works great and is gentle with electricity usage as far as I'm concerned. In this particular area, it would be much hotter inland and perhaps a higher SEER unit would make a difference there. But I suspect not always and not everywhere.

Edited to add, after Mike's comment below:

The bigger the unit tonnage wise, the bigger the difference efficiency makes. But there's another factor that's very important.

With my most recent job, the contractor's Manual J calcs showed that both the furnace and AC being replaced were quite oversized. Having the right sizes makes a big difference in performance and efficiency too, maybe more so than the SEER stats.

Elmer I agree. The SEER calculation is biased towards mild outdoor temperatures with a high indoor temperature. Many people are disappointed when they don't get the energy savings the SEER ratings predicts they should get.

I have three different contractors lined up. Will let you guys know next week, what I have found out.

Are doug b (who started the thread) and geoffrey b the same person?

Yeah. I'm a consultant, and somehow one the PC's at a client retained an old log on.

Well then, I wish you both good luck!

So far two bids. The best one so far is for a Carrier system:

The condensing unit 24ACC636 and an FE4A air handler. $7600 installed. I know I don't need 16 SEER in Minnesota - but it's 6-8 db quieter than the 24ABB336 13 SEER. With a $350 rebate for the 16 SEER - they are almost the same price.

I had the Bryant equivalent of the Carrier Performance 24AHA4 installed, 2 ton size, and also a new Bryant furnace. It's has a 68 db sound rating instead of 72 db for the model you cite. 14 SEER.

It was a first time AC install. It was stubbed out but the install needed to flush a lineset that had been there unused for 20 years, connect both ends of the wiring, plus add a matching coil, and the addition of a new supply duct. In a high cost area, $7200, not including a supplement to pay for and coordinate the building permit.

PS - both heat and AC work great. The contractor's calcs showed that the furnace was quite oversized so the replacement is 25% smaller in output. Other quotes were for 3 and 3.5 ton AC. Similarly, the calc recommended 2 tons. It's the right size based on performance.

This experience and one at another location a few years ago confirm that the biggest variable for this kind of work is the contractor. Good ones do magic and excellent work, with any equipment. But in my experience the better contractors do stick to the bigger name brands. As an example, some won't touch the likes of Goodman with a 10 foot pole.

I know what you mean by high cost area. Here in Minnesota / Minneapolis they have lots of regs - most meant to make money. Besides the permit, they require an electrician to connect up - even though it all in place. There are quite a few trades business that are just outside of Minneapolis - and they won't do business in this city.

I can't believe the prices some of these people are charging. The single stage Performance condenser with the variable speed FE4 air handler is a nice setup for a basic system but not $7600 (US) nice!

I'd get several more bids on the system.

The Carrier quote is for a Performance series AC condenser with an Infinity series air handler. Not necessary. Ask dealer to change air handler to the Performance series Mdl FV. Could save you a few bucks. It appears you are going up in size. May need a new and properly sized refrigerant lineset. What Mdl thermostat?

IMO

Based on tigerdunes' observation, I myself would lose a bit of confidence in this contractor. It seems like he tried to sneakily slip in a needless effort to upsell to more expensive equipment. Get some more quotes.

I have three estimates - all companies with great reviews on Yelp & Google.

First Lenox bid: $10,400. Second Carrier Bid: $7,900, Third Trane Bid: $9,100.

I have a 3,600 sq/ft home - and it's very long. So the larger air handler, will be able to move more air through a longer duct. I was hoping for a $6,500 bill.

Now I'm going to speak about politics. Minnesota (and especially Minneapolis) has been take over by Progressives. We have very high taxes / permits / regulations. This all adds up.

Excluding the politics, compare the actual bids to see what the two cheaper bids left out to make them cheaper, or what the two more expensive bids snuck in there to make them more expensive. Assuming comparable equipment, the bids are startlingly different.

"I have three estimates - all companies with great reviews on Yelp & Google."

Unfortunately, homeowner reviews of HVAC system are very limited and I would take them with "a pinch of salt". The vast majority of homeowners are just not equipped to critique such an installation. If the installation gets completed and the system heats/cools, the homeowner is happy. Lord know how the installation went, if corners were cut during installation, etc, etc. If the system is oversized (which they usually are), most homeowners are more than happy that the house "heats up"/"cools down" quickly. Rarely do these reviews have any meaningful information on the quality of the installation or if this contributed to the long term performance, reliability or otherwise of the system.

I guess they filter out the real bottom feeders who can't even get the system up and running, but that's about all.

Tigerdunes notes you may be going up in size. If the current unit works well, this might be a mistake. The current ducts have to be checked to ensure they’ll support a larger unit, and you may have less humidity control than with your previous, properly sized unit. It’s also a cost increase.

Just to clarify, a perfectly sized unit would be running almost all the time on the hottest day of the year.

We chose a Carrier 3 ton, 16 SEER condenser, and a 4 ton air handler. Total cost was $8,000 ( 7.25% tax included - $7,460 before tax ) and we get a $350 rebate from the elec company.

New lineset?...what thermostat?...what Mdl air handler, I recommended the FV over the Infinity FE...

IMO