Has anyone read Under The Influence by Joyce Maynard?

Finished The Sea Garden, an AGA saga by Marcia Willett, about a cast of characters in Devon. At the center is a young woman, Jess, who is invited to stay in a cottage by an older woman, Kate. The connection between them is that Jess won an art award established to honor Kate's late husband. The usual domestic dramas ensue, to which a little mystery is added and solved in due course.

I had never read anything by this author previously. A couple of things struck me as odd:

--none of the women work or have a career, even though the novel takes place in modern times (there are cell phones and computers).

--people are invited to stay at other people's houses (while the host or hostess is living there too) at the drop of a hat, and not just for a couple of nights, but to live there for a while. And we are not talking here of close friends, but mere acquaintances. Is this a common practice in real life?

Reader, I have read a couple of books by Marcia Willett and although the stories are pleasant enough and there are 'nice' descriptions of the Devon and the Cornish country and seaside I have found very little happens. The main characters are usually comfortably off, good looking men with attractive wives etc. Everyone has a reliable cleaner/daily woman (we don't call them housekeepers over here unless they are in charge of a mansion/castle eg Mrs Danvers)

Maybe in Ms Willett's world people do invite acquaintances to stay for long periods. Perhaps she herself has a large house and plenty of 'help' but I don't feel it would be normal. I think she writes very much within her 'comfort zone', which might included women who don't need to go out to work

Did you notice how many cups of tea and or coffee were made, poured, consumed in each chapter, or how many pieces of bread were toasted for breakfast?

Despite all that her books do describe a certain Englishness . . .

Reader, I know a woman who often houses people she doesn't know at all. People will call and say, "I'm a cousin of your son-in-law's brother's friend So-and-so and I'm going to be in Orlando for a week. Can I stay with you?" and she says yes, every time. I can't imagine doing that!

Donna

The comments re Marcia Willett's book reminded me so much of my impressions of all the Rosamund Pilcher books I used to read. I got tired of them because the lives were too perfect. Everyone was rich, had servants, lived in gorgeous surroundings. All the men were handsome and romantic; all the women beautiful and refined. I happen to like a good dose of reality once in a while! I stopped reading Pilcher years ago.

Donna, um....no. That definitely wouldn't happen at my door ! I cannot imagine housing somebody who knows somebody who knows me. As the french say " Friends and family begin to stink after three days . " and that doesn't begin to address strangers. That whole scenario is pregnant with problems .

I don't even like being a guest at a Bed & Breakfast . We stayed at one where we felt like teenagers coming home to disgruntled parents. The hosts actually waited up for us and then muttered something about not realizing we'd be that late ( it was around 11:00 pm) ! At another in Nantucket we had the misfortune of being below a guy and his female friend who were having quite the "happy time" all night long ! In Virginia we stayed at a B&B where the owners had a roaming cat who had free range of the kitchen. We passed on the complimentary breakfast :0) ( Kathy ?? want to chime in !? )

You bet I do, Yoyobon. I can fall for a cat as fast as anyone else, but I always think about some of the cleanest people I know who think nothing of allowing their cat to walk on their kitchen counter. I want to say, "Hey, do you know where those little feet have been? They probably still have bits of litter between their toes." Instead, I make a mental note not to accept a dinner invitation.

I probably just lost any chance of being invited to dinner at many of your houses!

You would be happy at my table Kathy :0)))

I recently went to an older woman's home ( she was infirmed and a group went to visit and bring a lunch) and a pizza was brought in to serve. They'd set it up on an island in the kitchen with drinks etc. The minute the box was opened we made our plates then sat at the table. Here it comes......later on, as we were in the living room visiting I happened to glance into the kitchen and her cat was up on the island WALKING IN THE PIZZA BOX licking the leftover pizza. Nope, nope, nope. Cover the butter! Ack !

I have found hospitality with strangers in Australia, where things are more casual than in the UK. My own mother couldn't put me up when I visited! No guest room!

In Australia, I have been bedded down on a sofa when arriving late to drop off someone's relative and woke to find a man, presumably my host, calmly eating breakfast at the nearby table. He saw me sitting up and told me to help myself to tea and toast!

Vee,

"Did you notice how many cups of tea and or coffee were made, poured, consumed in each chapter, or how many pieces of bread were toasted for breakfast?"

Yes! But that didn't take me by surprise as it was like that in the Cazalet Chronicles. In one of those books, Archie prepares tea for him and someone else past midnight! And when Gary Oldman accepted the Oscar in 2018, he ended his speech by telling his very elderly mother (presumably watching in Britain), "put the kettle on, I'm bringing Oscar with me". Thus, I expect British people to be drinking tea at all hours... but your comment still made me laugh (grin).

"I think she writes very much within her 'comfort zone', which might included women who don't need to go out to work".

In this book, of the older generation, there was one household that was wealthy, the rest sounded upper to mid-middle class, and there was a household where money was tight. Of the younger generation, there was only one guy making lots of money, the rest were struggling or just okay. And still, except for Jess, who went to art school, none of the women had trained to do anything, let alone gone to college, which it's hard to believe, especially regarding the younger women.

"Despite all that her books do describe a certain Englishness . . . "

I grasp rather intangibly what you mean, but could you elaborate a little?

reader, re tea drinking. It is certainly true that in many UK households the kettle is always 'on' for boiling water to make a cuppa but I found in the Willett books so much is made of the making/drinking of either tea or coffee, which in no way carried the story forward. I don't think I have read The Sea Garden . . OK I might have as her story lines are very similar . . . but your description of the characters 'way of life' resonates slightly with me.

I had to look up Ms Willett and found her to be a similar age to me and guess she had a middle class background. And this can make for difficulties between the English and Americans because from what I understand 'class' in the US is based on earning capacity while here it is much more nuanced not necessarily in a good way. It was all mixed up with background, education, your place in society what Victorians would have called knowing ones place where you happily fitted in. Much of it has luckily gone now but I think MW writes from the p.o.v of someone still living the '50's.

You mention women and their careers/education. Back in the day both MW's and mine (I left school in '63) very few women went to university, only the very brightest and often when they left they landed up either teaching or in office jobs. Almost none of them entered the professions, so there were very few female Dr's, lawyers, scientists etc. The other job-route for girls who had taken exams (O and A level usually between 16 -18 years) at school might be teacher training, nursing, office jobs after secretarial training and so on. So much more narrow than today. Mostly after marriage women gave up work to bring up children/wait on their husbands etc.

Of course things are SO different today. Apparently there are more women training in medicine than men, all the professions welcome(?) females and they have no worries about organising child-care . . . but they still come home after a hard day at the coal-face and do 75% of the housework!

This might answer some of your questions . . . but do ask if you need more clarity!

yoyo and Kathy, I have had a similar experience when invited to afternoon tea by an older 'arty' friend. We ate in her sitting room and I offered to carry some plates back into the kitchen to find the dog on the table munching the various left-over cakes and sandwiches. We also have friends who happily allow their dogs to not only sleep in their bedrooms but also IN their beds . . . and not just their dogs but the dogs of friends who they are looking after for a few days.

Do these folk not understand basic hygiene? Unless they have trained their pets to bathe/wash every day and use toilet paper, rather than their tongues, however much they love the animals, there is a limit.

I feel strongly on this point as several years ago the 10 year old daughter of friends lost the sight in one eye and almost in the other through sharing her bed with the family dog, a rescued stray, who had never been wormed. It was allowed to lick her face and caused the parasite to travel to the back of her eyeball where it ate through the optic nerve. Apparently this problem isn't uncommon but people seem unaware of the dangers.

Vee, oh dear! I have always been used to the idea of the pet dog sleeping on the bed!

It started with seeing my grandmother having hers with her at night for company while my granddad did a night shift at Smithfield Meat Market during WW2. She was a very fussy and houseproud woman and never thought it was unhygienic.

My children grew up with a dog as almost a sibling and you would be horrified at the thought of my husband and myself sleeping with a couple of deerhounds and an occasional cat bunking in with us but it seemed normal! Although a bit crowded even with a Queen-sized bed.

When my husband was taken off in an ambulance to the hospice, the current pet jumped in with him and when one "ambo" objected, the other said, it was all right, adding that he had had people in a worse state get in!

Naturally we kept our pets wormed vaccinated and groomed. The deerhounds were show dogs. My husband might roll his eyes at what I paid for a hairstyle but never blinked at the cost of the dog's beauty treatment!

As for tea drinking, I do that all day, often humming the song I recall from years ago "I like a nice cup of tea" I can't remember who sang that but I can hear her cut-glass tones!

Vee.....dogs in bed.....there have been many studies done which seem to show it to be calming for both owner and dog . I would only hope that the problem of ticks was considered. Most responsible owners either have their dogs treated or give them pills to prevent ticks from thriving on them. However, such things are not available for owners.

I am hyper sensitive regarding ticks and tick borne diseases because in this area we have an epidemic of Lyme disease. I was bitten by two ticks this summer ( first time in my life ) and unfortunately got Lyme from them and had to be treated. Now it is apparently a " fingers crossed, wait and see " game for the rest of my life hoping that it will not resurface as a debilitating autoimmune response and cause damage. Lovely.

Owning pets puts you in danger of them carrying ticks into the home . It is very discouraging.

yoyo, until recently ticks were not much of a problem over here but recently there have been outbreaks of Lyme in southern areas. The difficulty is that Dr's are so unfamiliar with it that the correct treatment is often not given.

Here dogs that are not properly looked after a more liable to catch fleas. Our neighbours who keep too many cats are not bothered that these animals suffer from unwanted guests although the husband will 'groom' them, usually on the living room carpet! I tend to keep well away . . . my excuse is that cats make me wheeze . . . which is true. How do the cats know this? They always come up to me and rub themselves against my legs.

For Annpan, this version is by Binny Hale (rather before my time) but probably the one you remember.

I Like a Nice Cup of Tea . . .

Vee...I love the idea of a nice cup of tea and when I read the British authors it always sounds so inviting and bracing. I am afraid what passes for tea in the US is a pale comparison. Tell me how to make a proper " nice cup of tea" ;0)

yoyo, do you remember many years ago we had a thread on that very subject?

Tea making is simple. Let us assume you have decent/good quality tea leaves or bags.

Boil fresh water (ie not water that has been sitting in the kettle for ages). While it is boiling heat the teapot with some of the heating-up kettle water. Just before it has 'comes to the boil' remove the water from the pot, add the leaves/tea bags and pour on the still boiling water. Stir the pot and allow it to rest, brew . . . or mash . . . as they say in the North, for a couple of minutes then pour it out into your best Spode, Wedgwood or Coalport china, or just into your favourite mug. Add milk or lemon and/or sugar and drink. It's quite OK to add the milk first.

The most important thing to remember is that when the water hits the tea it must still be boiling. Once it has gone off the boil the tea never tastes the same.

Is it possible to buy good quality tea in the US that doesn't break the bank?

Vee....thanks ! Yes, we can buy good quality loose tea or in bags . I will remember the point about boiling water.

Some US books I have read mention microwaving the water for tea. Do not do that!

Vee, no, I don't think that Binnie Hale is the singer I recall. Her recording was done in a deliberately common voice for a musical apparently. I seem to remember a more "refained" version!

More like Joyce Grenfell.

Back to tea-making. Agatha Christie mentions boiling water for tea properly in a couple of her books. It could be a problem to decide if the water was really boiling and when the "Whistling kettle" which had a gadget on the spout that whistled when the water was boiling, went onto the market, it was a housewife's dream to own one!

We in America are able to finally find several brands of excellent teas. I happen to like mine really strong.

On the topic of animal intrusion: I used to be a pet/house sitter for a couple in the VA countryside. They collected cats --- adopted several "feral" cats that they continued to feed. I will never forget being awoken at night by a parade of house cats traversing the stove tops in their kitchen. Evidently, this was a favored feline game/routine in that household....

Cats inhabit a parallel universe that doesn't include socializing with humans :0)

Just my opinion !

Yoyo, depends on the cat! We had Siamese and they like humans. One always used to interact a lot with my husband, climbing onto his knees to face him when he got home from work and my husband would ask him how his day had been...and got a talkative response!

Perhaps they are Zen-like genes :0)

Our current pair of cats are very cuddly, and are not afraid of strangers. Both traits are very unusual! :)

I finished The Beautiful Mystery by Louise Penny. I liked it, but liked the two previous ones better. I'm finding the farther I go in the series the more I want to immediately start the next book to find out what will happen next. LP books always have a wait list at my library so I'm forced to wait. :)

I've just started Enigma by Catherine Coulter.

Donna

Indygo, I have read the Three Body Problem trilogy. I enjoyed it very much. It was challenging reading as I have no physics background at all, but I enjoyed exploring the ideas. One caveat was that I did not warm up to the primary female character in the middle book, too much a goddess on a pedestal, but otherwise, his female characters were varied and interesting.

A Good Man in Africa was the first novel by William Boyd and tells the story of the First Secretary in the British Embassy in a West African recently independent country (probably an amalgam of Nigeria and Ghana, where Boyd had grown up) Morgan is the complete anti-hero. He seems to hate his job, his work colleagues and the country. He is expected to arrange a visit from a Minor Royal, keep his 'local' girlfriend hidden from disapproving view, oil the wheels of the local big-wig who is trying to blackmail him . . . in all totally shambolic. I don't think he would have lasted five minutes as a real diplomat.

I shall pass the book on to a friend who grew up in Nigeria as they might appreciate the humour and how difficult it was/is to understand the African way of doing anything.

By contrast Fat Man on a Bicycle is a gentle ride North to South, from Dieppe the port on the English Channel, to Sete on the Mediterranean taking in the rural French countryside, by Tom Vernon. I used to listen to his talks on the BBC back in the late 70's-80's. By cycling he is able to take in the scenery, especially the wild flowers and meet the local people. He uses his visits to various hotels and restaurants to compare French and English cooking. Thankfully things have much improved over here in the last forty years and UK chefs can hold their own against many European countries . . . an, some of us may say, not a moment too soon.

I finished Enigma by Catherine Coulter today while knitting a baby blanket, which I also finished. The book was good, if you can overlook her sometimes weird character names (Chief Harbinger) and poor editing (Clover Bottom Creek Road becomes Bottom Clover Creek Road).

The copy I was waiting for of How the Light Gets In by Louise Penny became available today, but I already had The Night Strangers by Chris Bohjalian so I think I’ll read that next.

Donna

You are a fast reader, Donna!

OK Donna, how do you read and knit at the same time?

Vee......I can knit an uncomplicated straight knitting while reading but find that it isn't as relaxing as doing either singularly. ( it has to be a hardcover that will stay open on my lap or propped on my lap. ) I also have been known to read while I walk, as long as it is on a flat surface like a paved trail or inside hallway. I would do that when I was teaching, when I had a free period.

Vee, I'm like Bon. I can knit and read at the same time as long as the knitting is a simple pattern.

Donna

My goodness, hats off to you both! I need total concentration to knit even the most simple row of stitches.

Vee, this is the blanket I was knitting. It’s an easy pattern knitted from corner to corner. It has holes worked around the edges but they were hard to see with this yarn so I wove narrow ribbon through them.

Donna

Thanks Donna. It's difficult to see what the pattern is from the photo or how big it is. Is it one where you increase at the start and finish of each row and then decrease when you have reached the half-way point?

This pattern has increases and decreases only at the beginning of each row. My goal was to use up this yarn, so I started decreasing when I got halfway through the yarn. :) It ended up being smaller than the pattern, about 30" square. I'm planning to donate it to Project Linus.

Donna

I knitted quite a bit during high school (when I should have been studying a bit more), and had fun, but haven't done it much since then. Kudos to those of you who can knit and read at the same time...

I'm in the middle of "The Emperor of All Maladies" by Siddhartha Mukherjee, an oncologist. Subtitled "A Biography of Cancer", it's a blow-by-blow examination of the history of cancer (the illness) and how it's been approached and treated over the years.

I am finding it absolutely fascinating and although it's quite technical in parts, it's a good read. Mukherjee deserves accolades for making such a large and unwieldy topic such as this much more approachable (and well written along the way).

The book has been awarded zillions of prizes, all of which it deserves. Definitely one of the best reads I've had this year so far.

Other than that, I'm just starting the university semester where I'm trying to teach 60 undergrads about grammar. Good job I'm a word nerd. :-)

Lemonhead, it seems like university it a bit late to start teaching grammar... :D

Donna

Donna, no, I am 82 and still trying to get the hang of it!

Annpan, I've a few years to go until I reach 82 but have managed quite well without worrying about grammar . . .

Vee, I mostly worry when I am posting here as you are all so impressively educated!

Otherwise I go along with what comes out of my mouth. Due to BBC listening when I was growing up, that is usually quite good. Well, I think so, anyway!

Ha. You're right. Uni is a little late to be covering grammar, but you'd be surprised... A LOT of my class are not confident in their writing for any number of reasons, and so I usually end up going over commas et al. throughout the class as a "reminder"... :-)

I have been listening to a BBC adaptation of Edna O'Brien's Country Girls, the first one of a trilogy where we meet Cait and Baba growing up in a West of Ireland village in the 1950's. The book was banned in Ireland for being obscene and copies were burnt by the Church.

From the descriptions of living with a brutal drunken father, to school with cold, sanctimonious nuns and then escape to Dublin where the girls meet endless undesirable men it proved to be rather a 'sad listen' but of course, very true of its time and setting . . . and easy to see why the macho Irish 'authorities' didn't enjoy the attention it gained.

Below is a link to a rather wordy review of all three books which are in no way obscene. I believe O'Brien is no longer considered a pariah for telling the truth about the state of women's lives in Ireland.

Country Girls

Lemonhead.....remind them that commas can save lives !

"Let's eat, Grandma ."

"Let's eat Grandma."

I finished The Night Strangers by Chris Bohjalian. It was a dark and creepy story and I’m glad it’s done! This is the third book I’ve read by him and they were very different stories and very different styles.

Now back to Louise Penny.

Donna

I just tried to post (unsuccessfully) a new thread for September. Not sure why it did not take. Anyway, we on the southern coast are waiting out the approach of a major hurricane....

Stay safe. It looks like Wednesday landfall ? Hopefully it will weaken considerably before coming in.

I'm trying to like The Curious Charms of Arthur Pepper but so far it seems like a silly, shallow premise. Perhaps I've spent too much time in Three Pines and have become accustomed to really good writing. I am tempted to return.