The cleaning cartridge is just water. In Europe they don't use a "Cleaning" cartridge. You have an empty twindos bottle you fill with, wait for it ........ water and use that to clean the system.

Since Miele doesn't offer an empty bottle in the USA they sell a bottle of water and call it a "Cleaning" cartridge. Just save an empty twindos bottle and refill it using a funnel with water. Now you have your own "Cleaning" cartridge for a much better price.

And if you still don't believe then here is the washer asking you to fill the empty twindos cartridge with water to do the maintenance cleaning cycle:

I looked the label on the cleaning cartridge- more than just water. It probably is a weak solution (less than 5%) of some oxygen bleach. I am sure that water does work, but after dropping $2k on the unit, I am inclined to follow what Miele says

The ONLY reason you have to buy glorified water is because Miele sells their own detergent and didn’t offer the refillable bottles.

It really is wrong that the refillable bottles are offered all over the world except in North America. Miele make great products. Don’t get sucked into the idea the Idea that because they offer a bottle of glorified water that it is superior to what comes out of your tap. Cleaning cartridges should not could 6-10 times that of automotive fuel.

While they do sell empty cartridges in Europe, if you go to the Miele web site in the UK you can find the ingredients of all the detergents and the cleaner. It looks like the same ingredients as Twin Dos Phase 2, but that doesn't mean it is in the same concentration since the concentration is not given. In the EU there is a law stating that all products must list their ingredients however the concentration is not included. It could be that the product contains more alcohol than we can use on clothes or more hydrogen peroxide. I'm thinking it is more alcohol.

Miele probably won't sell empty cartridges in the USA because the first thing people might think to do is to put chlorine bleach in one of them. Since both are used in each run(in different amounts for colors) color items would be ruined.

Miele's main reason is that they want to sell detergent which I am sure is very profitable. Given the relative appliance sales volume in the US, the extra cash from consumables is probably needed. Having service and parts on hand is expensive. Look through the threads of Ilve and Berta owners bemoaning part and service supply - it just isn't there in a practical sense

Europe is different story - well known name - with tons of volume.

Secondly, I am sure that end users would add all sorts of alchemy to a self fillable container. Those concoctions would over foam, under clean etc and then the owners of a $2K washer would be moaning about this POS doesn't clean like my mom's 1967 Maytag that it replaced. Why even start that conversation given the volume they sell here

@delray33483

The USA is the 2nd largest market for Miele outside of Germany. They sell more units in the USA than any other European country except their home country of Germany. More than the UK, more than France, etc. Europe as a whole is bigger, but the USA is NOT a small market for Miele.

This was simply a profit motive. I like Miele appliances, but this decision was simply to make money.

Here is the proof:

https://www.miele.de/en/m/miele-grows-turnover-by-4.3-and-increases-market-share-bucking-general-trend-4614

The USA and Australia – Miele's biggest markets after Germany – achieved satisfactory turnover growth in local currency. At 70.6%, the share of sales outside Germany has remained practically constant (70.0% in previous year).

Hello I'm so confused can someone please clarify?? can you use your own detergent and fabric softener in the TwinDos refill containers? I know Miele USA don't sell them but I found the refill containers on amazon UK, I tried to look online and never found an answer. I called Miele and told that Europe containers will not fit in the USA models I find it hard to believe since its all W1 models. I have WWH860 model.

Hello, Yes , you can use your own detergent and fabric softener in the Twindos refill containers. ( You will need only first to set-up properly through the menu, the twindos configuration. It will take only a few seconds, and you will be available to indicate how much of each ( in ml ) is necessary for a standard run.

Hey Thierry

but people here saying that those empty containers will not fit the USA model machines. can you confirm I have the WWH860

thank you

I cannot really comment on whether the empty container will fit or not in USA model. But my best guess is yes. If the Miele detergent container are the same between Europe and US, the empty container will fit both. Based on the pictures from some websites, I don't spot any striking difference. May be looking at the notice will give some clues (they can be downloaded from the Europe and US website of Miele. For the accessories, identical references would mean the same product.

Just to add in addition that , if you take a detergent container, and when empty, you make by your own a hole on the top, near the rear of the cartridge, you can fill it with your own detergent.

I cannot really comment on whether the empty container will fit or not in USA model. But my best guess is yes. If the Miele detergent container are the same between Europe and US, the empty container will fit both. Based on the pictures from some websites, I don't spot any striking difference. May be looking at the notice will give some clues (they can be downloaded from the Europe and US website of Miele. For the accessories, identical references would mean the same product.

Just to add in addition that , if you take a detergent container, and when empty, you make by your own a hole on the top, near the rear of the cartridge, you can fill it with your own detergent.

The empty cartridge is the same, on Amazon.com Amazon.fr (France)

Hey Thierry

Thank thank you for your comment but some people here said it will not fit that’s why I’m still confused and I don’t want to buy it and end up not fitting.
I wish someone can post a videos about the containers.
Is that what you do? Making holes and refills?

Thank you

Ma Ten. somewhere in this thread is "directions" on how to reuse the USA containers with your own detergent. You cant use the European ones - they don't work.

my thought is that the own refill route is better if you do a lot of laundry. if you are just a one load a day person, just buy the cartridges from Miele. The refill learning curve isn't worth the effort

Hey Delrey33483

Thank you for your respond
I bought this model thinking I could so it’s kinda upsetting..
I do 4-5 loads a week
And I don’t like the Miele scent of the detergent
I know they have to unscent one too
But I like tide Oxi clean and I agree making holes and refilling sounds like a lot of time consuming..
Just wish some one had a video showing the process... I hope maybe Miele will hear us and make those empty bottles for the US market

I don't think there is a video. There are some reasonable directions somewhere in this thread. You may want to add a rinse and/or switch to tech sensitive if you don't like the Miele smell. However , if you are looking for the actual Tide smell, then you will have to reload the used cartridges

Got it thank you

I'm considering these machines as a second set. Still have my XL machines running *fingers crossed*. What is the fragrance like of the Twindos detergent? Does it compare to anything? Like the Miele liquid for colours?

I think scent is somewhere between Miele Liquid and Persil ProClean. Their Aqua flacon for the dryer has the same scent.

On the refillable containers, I looked at videos of the European washer's twindos cartridge compartment and I don't see any plastic fins on the back of the compartment. If you look at a USA washer, there's a plastic fin sticking out in the back wall. So because the refillable containers don't have an indent on the back (like the Twindos containers do), it probably wont' click in place.

Others have said if you buy the right funnel size, you can just refill the bottles using the existing port on the back of the bottle.

@Thierry

Miele added two plastic bars at the back of the TwinDOS slots in the washer. If you look near the top you will see them. This prevents the "official" refillable containers from just working in the USA machines. A dremmel or similar tool can be used to remove these "speed bumps". The refillable cartridges will then insert properly.

OR

You can just wait until you have used up the free phase 1 and phase 2 cartridges and then refill those. There is a plunger in the spout of the TwinDOS bottles than can be pushed down with a funnel. You can then pour in whatever detergent you want in the Phase 1 bottle. The Phase 2 bottle is ONLY for oxygen bleach. No Chlorine Bleach, No Fabric Softener.

In the USA machines there is no way to select anything other than Mile for the "Agent" in the phase 2 bottle in the washer settings. In Europe you can select fabric softener, a different detergent, oxygen bleach, etc.

Oxygen bleach and fabric softener would be dispensed at different times in the wash cycle. That is why you can not fill the phase 2 bottle with anything other than liquid oxygen bleach (Hydrogen Peroxide) in the USA models. There is no way to tell the washer there is anything other than oxygen bleach. Fabric softener would normally be dispensed in the final rinse. Oxygen bleach is dispensed in the main wash when the water is heating (Heat is needed to make Hydrogen Peroxide more effective).

In our house we refill the phase 2 bottle with Ecover Zero oxygen bleach. It is 8% hydrogen peroxide instead of the normal 3-4% that most other oxygen bleach options use. We purchase it our local co-op, but whole foods sells it as well as many online retailers. If you keep an eye out you can get a case of 6 bottles for about $3-4 per bottle. if you don't need that much then buy a single bottle as you need it. Usually sells for $5-6 a bottle in a retail store. A single bottle will refill the phase two bottle full once and then get about another 1/3 refill after that.

We use Tide PurClean in the Phase 1 bottle. You can use whatever you want, but if you switch up detergents you really should do a maintenance cycle on the washer inbetween. This would flush out any remnants of the previous detergent before adding a new one. This would prevent any congealing of detergents if two different ones are mixed. If you stick with the same type and brand and just change scents then no flush would be necessary. We use unscented, but that is just a personal preference.

@luna123456 - Interesting!

I do not see any suds at all with twin dos system is this normal. I have a brand new machine

It is possible, but depends on the levels you have set for TwinDos, your water quality/softness and also how much laundry was fit in the machine.

suds don't add anything to the cleaning process (in fact they can reduce cleaning by cushioning the fall of clothes during drum rotation)

If nothing else, make sure that the DOS light is illuminated on the display when you are washing clothes. If that isn't illuminated the no DOS detergent is drawn from the containers

Curious what you all have your dosing level set for the Phase I and Phase II? We have very soft water (have a whole house water softener) and trying to figure out what to set it at has been problematic. I first set the dosing at 48 ml (per Miele's instructions) but seemed like the laundry still had such a strong detergent scent I wondered if that was still too high? Help.

I have them set at 40 and 30 which is also recommended. I would then add an an extra rinse to through the display. Last resort would be to switch to Sensitive DOS chemicals

I have soft water and set mine at 18ml/15ml, which is around a tablespoon of detergent each depending on the dosage the machine calculates. I also set the machine to default to a 'low soil' which apparently will also reduce detergent. Checking the glass on the washer right before the last spin for no reside of suds is a good way to figure out the best detergent level.

could the whole warning be because you aren't using twindos cartridge #2 often enough?

it is a rinse needed very two times you empty twindis ultraphase 1…?

NOTE ALSO: have you don't a software upgrade since getting the machine? that might fix the niggling issue. or reboot it like a computer! anyway for the update, if it's web connected it's a very fast update. mine just did it in a minute.

I have used my W1 machine for 3 intensive months (1-2 loads each day!) and we have emptied two Twindos 1 cartridges. but the Twindos 2 is only 1/2, used. so (maybe) it makes sense it's asking for a maintenance cycle to prevent that tube gumming up...

If you dont occasionally run a wash with twindos your twindos connection can get thick and clogged. i alternate.

Phase 2 is oxygen bleach, it is impossible for it to gel. It is mostly hydrogen peroxide. the main detergent could possibly gel, but think about it. It sits in the bottle for a year or more and doesnt gel. if it did, you would see it in the bottle.

it happened to mine...i got clogged. the miele tech, who was the most knowledgable I have had in 20 years, explained why to me. Not speaking of the ingredients, but if you don't use it, you definitely lose it. Since last year, not one problem.

I don't think you can use your own detergent with TwinDos in US models. You can use it of course in the old fashioned way, but not with convenience of TwinDos automatic dispensing. European models have settings where you can specify what is in each of two TwinDos slots (Miele UltraPhase 1/2 detergent, regular detergent, detergent for colors, fabric softener, etc). But in US models, it can be only set to Miele UltraPhase 1, UltraPhase 2, or None. You could probably "cheat", but the machine will still assume it's filled with UltraPhase 1 and 2, and try to mix them as such. Which was very disappointing when I found it out. If using your own detergent, you'll simply have to fill detergent into dispenser at the top of the machine, just like with any other washing machine.

@A M

Use a funnel to refill the TwinDOS bottles. Been doing thst for years. We use Tide Purclean in the phase one bottle and Ecover Zero oxygen bleach in the phase 2. Works great at less than 1/2 the price for the detergent and 1/4 of the price for the oxygen bleach.

@luna123456 Would you mind running through exactly how you refill your bottles, please? Im having a hard time imagining it

I found a YouTube video with your comment and understand how to do it now. :)

Maintenance Twindos - hi have has this replacement machine for my old Miele since January 21 and have only just been told to run the maintenance on my Twindos. I generally do 2 washes a day... active family :) As I did not like the smell of the Miele detergent I have been using the refill cartridges (and what... they aren't available for USA machines - seems nuts) with Omo in 1 and Vanish gel stain remover in 2. The mail here because of Corona is quite sporadic at the moment and I cant drive to a store as we are still locked down so they are closed... I tipped out the stain remover from one cartridge / washed it out / then filled to the line with water and about 1 tablespoon @20mls of white household vinegar. Put this in and started the clean cycle. It went for a minute and said there was insufficient detergent ... so I placed about 1-1/2 tablespoons @30mls of Omo in with the water and vinegar gave it a gentle shake to mix and with nothing to lose and put it in and it ran the maintenance the cycle on both 1 and 2. As I have had the machine for 10 months and done very regular washes, I will see how this cleaning foray goes and report back. I guess I will have to buy another refillable cartridge just for this grrr as was not aware this was a maintenance requirement until now. Ps - I think Miele's old washers and dryers were sooooo much better at their jobs washing and drying. Everything out of my new heat pump dryer which again was from January is crushed and yes I have tried all the settings and cycles on both machines and both were mid to high range not entry level machines.

Also on refilling the old Miele cartridges there is a lovely lady on youtube doing this with a chopstick... ha I was annoyed that I had to do the cleaning hack with a refillable cartridge so can't see me refilling the old cartridge however if I was in the US might give it a go or... would probably just put the detergent in the top drawer and be done with it.

Yes, a funnel would seem to work better than chopsticks!

And great idea to keep one and use distilled water as a cleaning cartridge. Thanks Luna

I know this is an old post but after bringing back a refillable cartridge while on a trip to europe (yes that was the first thing I shopped for) I am so mad to find that it does not fit the US machine. I called them and was told they have no plans to make one for the US or to update the software so that when we refill the cartridges the machine can adjust easily to what we use just like the ones in the EU do. I have posted about this on their fb page and contacted consumer reports as well. These are expensive machines for most americans and their trying to nickel and dime on detergent is just blatant greed. I have three Miele appliances and was planning on buying more for my kitchen remodel a few years down the road. That will not be happening now.

you knew you were buying a closed cartridge system right? Your choices are buy the cartridges, refill the cartridges demonstrated above, or not use DOS

It is not a 'closed cartridge system' in the EU. Reviews for it online are from all over the world and nowhere except in the US is this a problem. If you are happy with the company selling the same model in two different ways in the EU and the US, then good for you. I find it deceitful and greedy. If you don't agree, move on. The world is a large enough place for both our opinions.

As an American who spent a couple of years in Europe in the past, my opinion and only my opinion, is that Miele doesn’t want a lawsuit from someone ruining their machine because someone was stupid enough to put chlorine bleach in a twindos cartridge. The EU, in general, does not use chlorine for laundry while it’s use is ubiquitous here in the US. I also believe they are right to be cautious- the lawsuit against Whirlpool for mold in the gaskets of FL machines and the warnings on our coffee cups because someone spilt it in their lap immediately come to mind. I’m not discounting your opinion about corporate greed, I agree with you that corporate greed is out of control. It’s just that in this instance there are other factors involved.

That could certainly be a concern for Miele to have. However, there are ways to reduce their liability due to user error. Labeling twin dos replacement cartridges to say No Chlorine Bleach! and including that in explanations in the manual should be sufficient. I understand that the US is a sue-happy society mostly because unless someone sues, our agencies that are supposed to set standards do little.

Instead of being more transparent, Miele does not clearly note on their website that US machines will not take the refillable cartridges. They market the refillable cartridges without a not saying they will not work only in US machines. There is no indication that the seemingly identical model will not do what it does in the EU.

We are a Miele family. My in-laws Miele dishwasher chugged along for nearly 30 years. These are not my first Miele appliances. I am simply unimpressed with how they are choosing to handle the twin dos issue for US machines.

Miele's desire to make a profit off consumables is an everyday business decision. I doubt that many people here know that in Europe it is even an option Who in the US sells the cartridges? It isnt Miele . Did you ask the local retailer where you bought the washer about refilliable cartridges? Plenty of companies sell products that only work a certain way in different markets

Gillette sells razor blades that only fit their razors - I wouldnt blame them

delray33483 while I understand that you feel a strong loyalty to the company and want to defend them I am not sure what you are getting at. A seller on amazon sells the refillable cartridges. Made by Miele. As to people not knowing what is an option in Europe, the world is a whole lot smaller than you think. I saw multiple videos about this model online and read many forums where using a refillable cartridge was mentioned. I get that you want Miele to live the capitalist dream and provide us with a sub par experience if they can get away with it.

As to Gillette's razors - do they sell a generic blade in Europe and not sell it in the US? No? then your example does not really compare.

I get being upset, but if you look at the Miele USA website, they make no mention of refillable cartridges. They chose not tonoffer them for two reasons:

1. Sell more of their own branded detergent.

2. Avoid sue happy people who will put chlorine bleach in the phase two slot and eother damage the appliance or their clothes. Then claim Miele is at fault.

No one else offers a ”bleach” dispensor in a bottle on a reaidential machine. I wonder why? Several offer detergent dispensers.

Luna123456 I agree with your first point. I disagree with the second. there are ways to avoid liability from incorrect chlorine bleach usage. warnings in the twin dos compartment, in the manual and on the refillable cartridge would do the trick.

Honestly, if they want to be seen as such an environmentally friendly company, how can they justify users tossing two single use plastic containers every month or so? How hard would it be for them to sell a large refill of their proprietary detergent with a refillable cartridge? or better yet, ship it in a powder form so they are not shipping heavy liquids and adding to their carbon footprint?

Look, we can go round and round about reasons why they don't offer the refillable cartridge just in the US. It is not forward thinking, environmentally conscious or good business practice.

Anyone buying a liquid deteegent is getting it in a plastic bag or bottle. whether that comes from Miele, Tide, Persil, etc doesnt matter. It will get recycled or tossed so its a mute point.

The refillable bottle in Europe is not free. The method i showed above saves rhe need to buy an empty. Detergent is also included. In some ways reusing the twindos bottles from Miele is more environmentally conscious,

Go buy some tide, persil, etc a small funnel with an angled spout and your all set. Ypu wouldnhave to fill a bottle regardless.

The women who got served the hot coffee at McDonalds was RIGHT and deserved $$. Am not sure how anyone doesn’t understand this by now.