Edanz, what part of the country are you in? I have the same question. I have a number of English roses from David Austin, and I see the stated sizes per David Austin are 3.5'W x 5'H, or 4'W x 4'H, and so on, and I suspect that with all the winter kill here in SW Michigan my bushes will never be that big. (Also I am not very attentive to my gardens in late autumn or early winter, and so my roses rarely get hilled.) I hope some experienced growers in your part of the country and also in my part of the country will advise us.

Hi ellatiarella,

I'm actually located in Europe, on the Dutch/German border. Our climate is almost exactly what one would expect in most of England. Hardiness Zone 8. And yes, the rose I'm thinking about is a David Austen rose called the "Mill on the Floss." I also like "Scepter'd Isle" which is also stated as 4H x 4W.

Roses tend to like more fertilizer and water than lavender, so you may find that one or the other suffers some if they are interplanted.

Hi everyone, I decided to email David Austin about the Mill on the floss and thought I'd share the answer here:

In relation to your question the size which you can see on our website or in our handbook of roses is the average size which the rose can reach without the pruning. The shrub rose "The Mill on the Floss" as an example can reach around 4,5ft in high and around 4-4,5 on the width. Generally we do recommend to prune the roses every year as it helps them to thrive but pruning is also removal of weak, dead and diseased stems but the main purpose of pruning is to create a shapely, attractive shrub with good structure. We do recommend to cut back stems by 1/2, if the rose is a repeat flowering shrub. Because the rose "Mill on the Floss" is a quite new rose from 2018 our experts discovered with a time that the rose can be bred as a short climber as well but they need a good sunny position to achieve 6-8ft. In the first year, when the plant is still establishing, we recommend to prune lightly, leaving about two thirds of the shrub.

So it looks like the stated size does not take pruning into account. It's interesting that given ideal conditions, it may grow much taller as well.

Be aware that pruning can stimulate growth, note that they say to cut back stems by 1/2, (only) if the rose is a repeat flowering shrub, which I interpret as after the first flush.

^^^ After the first flush? I envisioned early in the season, well before the first flush. Is this not well most mortals prune repeat flowering roses? After all, if it was after the first flush, why could not once blooming roses be pruned then also?

Possibly I misunderstood the opinion expressed above.

I understood it to mean both,

I am amazed that Austin lists those sizes for unpruned bushes. Of course conditions vary, but how is it that in England Graham Thomas is a 1.25 M bush and here in Seattle USA it tried hard to be 4 meters despite my best attempts to prune it back (resulting in a bush that fluctuated between about 2-3 meters tall?

Also, I'm with rifis on this one -- most pruning done in early spring/late winter and then deadheading/shaping/maintenance pruning thereafter. Once bloomers are the exception, and they are pruned/shaped after blooming.

Incidentally, I'm planting this rose against an east facing solid wood fence. What distance from the fence should I plant it?

Ideally, I'd like to get it as close to the fence as possible, to avoid it encroaching unnecessarily on the yard, but not if it's detrimental to the health of the shrub.

Also, any idea how this planting distance from the wall would affect the final size of the rose?