Thanks for the advice mgleason56! It looked really different, very intriguing! I'll make sure it is in the best growing spot to give it the best possible start. I can start hauling compost and preparing the bed. It will be potted up first, and babied along. Good thing I made plenty of compost this year! I thought I'd also mention Vintage Gardens and their possible closing in my party plan (not roses) sales talk. Lots of people here love to garden and would like some nice roses. Every person can help a little, and maybe we can keep a great rose vendor who really deserves to stay in business! Still doing the HHRD, Linda

Kitty - I have a tank, I could DO that! I'm in 9b, and we did get some nippy weather last winter (my first here, so not sure it's customary), I think we had 18 or so days where it got down to 28? No horrible storms after a big wind storm that hit the week before Thanksgiving and did lots of damage around the county, but none at my house, TG! I was relying on an online weather site to tell me how cold it was, aside from COLD, but I got myself some thermometers, so I'll see just how cold it gets here at MY house, not a mile down the road and up the hill. Last winter was quite the learning experience, as I lost a lot of plants - sob, wail! I replaced some of them, and this year I've moved some stuff into the house, and walled the cats away with chicken wire. REALLY hope it works and they don't mess with them, or eat them (and poison themselves!) Other stuff I've resigned myself to not having again while I live here.

It's true that where I am in So. CA, the roses can get really really big in a hurry. Many times I had to find another spot for a rose because it got much bigger than any description in the book or catalog. Some tolerated the pruning and some wanted to be left alone. I think you just have to try and see what works best. I was trying to keep my Heritage at 4 feet like I saw at the LA Arboretum, then I saw a big poofy one in someone's yard and was smitten by that look. I have an old no name climber going up an apple tree that I ignore. It has a few ancient canes and all the young growth is sky high. I never see any new growth from lower down and I wonder if I should have cut it back years ago. Whatever happens, I'll just enjoy the plant as long as it's there. I think it's too late now to try removing the old canes. When the HTs are left alone, they get so tall. Lagerfeld/Starlight and Honor will go way over my head and the flowers are up in the sky where no one can see or smell them. Then too, when you cut the flowers, a wierd kind of pruning happens and the canes get shortened by taking the flowers off. I suppose just snapping off the hips is best, but I can't resist a bouquet. Around August, I get some strange tallish looking HTs and everyone is talking about plans for a nice fall flush and how they are going to trim the plants and when. I usually cave in at that point and shorten them down because they look untidy from the street and I have fall flush visions in my head. Besides, the flowers look terrible in the summer heat and I am longing for some really pretty ones in the cooler weather. Some years it's better than others. Last year, I had a great big crop of fall flowers on the DA roses after a light pruning, but the year before was not spectacular even though I thought I pruned them the same. This last year, I left a few alone, thinking they did not like the 2007 fall-flush pruning and they did nothing in the fall of 2008 but are now really dense with wood so I am hoping for a big spring bloom this year. Regarding my modern HTs, I notice that if I just snap off hips, they have intermittent flowers up to the hottest times in summer. Then when it cools off a little,there are intermittent flowers until January. I can't seem to get a big bloom in fall unless I deliberately prune them. By January they are really tall again and it's hard to enjoy the flowers on the HTs when they are up that high. I like it when people can see them and smell them. If they are out of reach, no one pays any attention. The first roses of the year are like celebrities with the fresh mulch and new shiny leaves. If I let them alone and they flower off and on through the winter, I wonder if they would have the big spring bloom I always look forward to.

Thank you, lisaam and Springroz. When I placed that gray pillow there and it made such a difference I began to hope that I could make other changes that would make that rug work. I'm leaning more and more toward having no area rug. It seems too cluttered, especially since there are other smaller rugs scattered around and a large Oriental rug to the left through the arch in the dining room and another large Aubusson-style rug in the front room, and a rug in the office, and two rugs in the TV room.... I think I like the idea of having these rugs only where the tiles are, which is about half of the house. I think I'm going to celebrate the gray!