You could do what many professional chefs do and simmer in the oven. No risk of anything burning. Very gentle and zero effort.

It's one of the reasons why I suggest getting multiple wall ovens.

Please, I am hoping someone will weigh in with a comment strictly about btu’s.

The problem is that these numbers are not particularly indicative of whether you'll have hot spots and whether you'll really be able to easily simmer for hours. A lot depends on the burner design and the type and size of pot that you're using. That's why some manufacturer's don't even bother telling you how much gas they burn (that's really what BTU is about). Of course the alternative numbers (e.g. temperature) aren't really helpful either.

You'll just have to go and try it yourself with your own pots.

Or you can read reviews. Positive reviews are probably not very helpful exactly because of the reasons given above. But consistent negative reviews would be interesting.

wekick... First of all I want to thank you for your very informative comments and effort. I have been thinking about what you said. It did not occur to me that two burners with the exact same btu's but with differing diameters would function and perform differently. I get it now. I have been doing my homework. I will come back to you with follow up questions once I get the answers I need. Thank you again. Stay tuned...

I'm still not quite ready to write a full review of my Bluestar RCS 36" gas range but I will do my best to put my cursory thoughts together for the moment. At this time I would give this range 4 out of 5 stars.

I am completely happy that I passed on the Bertazzoni. Beware of the loud cooling fans on the Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel. There are computer chips inside of them that heat up and fail. It's the biggest reason why I passed on these two ranges though there were also design decisions that did not make sense. (Who uses a hob rail?)

There are no computer chips inside of the Bluestar. It is analog simplicity at it's finest. I have not put the Bluestar through all of it's paces because of the hot summer and I don't have air conditioning in my pre-war apartment. Once fall approaches I will be using the Bluestar quite a bit more and will have a more thorough opinion.

After the first few weeks with the Bluestar I had quite a scare. I was using a new top recommended oven thermometer from America's Test Kitchen. The oven temp on the thermometer was more than 50º off from what was on the dial. I called Bluestar and they sent a technician to my apartment within a few days. Luke, the tech, was very kind and knowledgeable and he tested the oven temp with a much more accurate and complex digital thermometer. It turned out that the oven temperature was completely accurate and my $20 oven thermometer was inaccurate. He explained to me that this happens frequently with new Bluestar owners. Trust the oven. I was holding on to the oven thermometer like a band-aide and just because it was analog it did not mean that it was accurate. Now that I know that I had a perfectly functioning stove I could move on to cooking without any worries.

Let me tell you, one of the major reasons why I chose to purchase the Bluestar was because of the 1850º infrared ceramic broiler. What I didn't expect was how life changing it would be. I mean, wow, it's a stunning piece of tech. The flame is so hot, it's blue. Because it's an instant heat I do not have to wait for it to warm up before use. Even in the hot summer I could grill a steak in just a few minutes with incredible char without heating up my kitchen. My Thermapen MK4 ensures my meat is cooked perfectly. My favorite recipe so far is chicken tandoori.

One of the reasons why I initially wanted the Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel was because of their true 24 inch cabinet deep profiles. Both stoves are slim and elegant. Their grates are light, thin, and easy to remove for cleaning. The Bluestar, on the other hand, is a more industrial, restaurant style stove. I was apprehensive about putting it in my small NYC kitchen. It took me awhile to adjust to the larger footprint of the Bluestar but I am now quite happy with it's size but I'm still adjusting to it's more blunt kind of styling.

Now on to why, so far, I am knocking one star off of this stove. My opinion is entirely subjective, so please take my thoughts with a grain of salt. Look at the photo below. You see how deep that front bull-nose is? I just can't quite get used to it. Granted, I have been using a rental grade stove beforehand for 20 years so I am still adjusting. My roommate, however, adjusted almost immediately to the added depth. Because of the deep, flat stainless steel area it is begging to get scratched. Yes, just three months in I do have a small micro-scratch. I brought up my concerns to Luke who came to check on my oven temperature problem. He agreed with me that scratches are going to happen and I just have to let go of this concern. Wait for several years and in the future there are ways to polish out the scratches and he would be happy to help me with how to do so when the time comes.

But still, why does the bullnose have to be so deep? Luke explained to me that the wiring for the stove was all tucked densely behind the bullnose, which I gathered. But what I didn't see was that on the underside overhang of the bullnose there are air vents that help dissipate heat when cooking. These vents omit the need for the cooling fans that are in the Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel. Hmm, again, brilliant simplicity. My question now is why can't Bluestar design a shallower bullnose while still keeping the space for the wires and the vents? Checking other stoves, like Wolf and Viking, they too have thick bullnoses but none of them are as deep as Bluestar's. I guess it's just the new world order of stove design to have these thick bullnoses. Checking the stoves out at the steakhouse I work at they too have thick bullnoses. I just need to give myself more time to adjust.

Now on to those thick grates. I did not want them. Another reason why I initially chose the Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel. But what I like about the Bluestar is that there is one grate for each of the 6 burners. Each grate, though heavy duty, is lighter than expected and easy to remove for cleaning. Other stoves have one continuous grate over two burners which makes them quite a bit heavier to remove. As you can see in the photo below I had a powder-coated stainless steel cover made for the middle two grates so I would I have more room for cooking equipment. It is easily removable for those times when I need to use all 6 burners.

And what about those burners? I was amazed with how quickly I could boil a huge pot of water for pasta. I love the fact that all of the burners have high output btu's except for the far left back burner for low simmering. If you have read my other threads some of you may know how anal retentive I am about burners with incredible low simmering capabilities. I still have not tested the low simmering capabilities enough to come to any conclusive opinions but so far I am happy. I am considering getting a diffuser for this stove because the burners are so wide in diameter that the flames burn the sides of narrower objects like my moka pot. I will follow up later on the burner capabilities when the weather cools and I have more time to use them extensively. Let me tell you this though. I am so glad I chose the sealed burner range over the open burner range. Yes, I know that the open burners on Bluestar ranges are legendary. The open burners are superior in performance to the sealed burners but I can't believe how easy to clean the sealed burners are. I barely have to take a wet soapy sponge to the surface to clean up spills. I am not a professional chef. I am an avid home cook and I don't need anything more than what I have. The Bluestar sealed burners are exceeding my expectations.

A couple of more notes. I have not used the convection oven too much. Again, I need to wait for temperatures to cool. Also, this stove does not have a warming drawer. I thought this would be a problem at first since my small kitchen has very little storage. My solution is that I slide my large sheet pans under my stove. I am surprised with the amount of clearance under my stove for storage. A plus is that I can now mop under my stove. Say goodbye to under-stove dust and debris. With a storage or warming drawer on other stoves cleaning under them would not be possible.

Let's just say that I am happy with my Bluestar purchase. I am glad I did not get the Bertazzoni or the Fisher Paykel. An added bonus is that the Bluestar is designed and built in America and, so far, Bluestar support has been excellent. This is a set-it and forget-it kind of stove. Simplicity is what I was after and simplicity is what I got. Thank you, Bluestar.

A red Scotchbrite pad and some elbow grease should remove the scratches from the bullnose. Just make sure to carefully follow the direction of the grain

Just an update: As of two days ago, I discovered a problem with my Bluestar RCS sealed burner range. It's one of the reasons why I did not give a full review of the range yet. I needed to put it through its paces and this takes time. I am confident in saying that my findings would not have been fleshed out by Consumer Reports and that my posts will help others make a purchasing decision. I feel like I need to give Bluestar time to respond to the issue before I post a full review. Let's wait and see...

I discovered a problem with my Bluestar RCS sealed burner range

I don't really know much about the sealed range. But my experience with the uncapped burners teaches me two things:

• Bluestar ranges require proper initial setup. The installer needs to go through a small checklist of items and make sure everything is configured correctly. Adjustments might be needed whenever a range is installed at a different altitude than what the factory planned for. And adjustments might be needed whenever things might have shifted during transport. These things should only be necessary once at installation. But since lower-powered mass-market ranges often don't have the same adjustments, installers might not always know that they have to do this. That can be frustrating for the homeowner.
• Bluestar ranges are really basic time-tested designs. They are meant to be easy to service and they use industry-standard parts as much as is possible. They are the successor to the original Garland design, and those ranges are still in use in restaurants to this day. So, even a homeowner can often fix things, if their range doesn't work properly. And if you decide to call a technician instead, than any experienced technician should be able to service Bluestar, even if they don't normally work on this particular brand. Most adjustments don't need any special tools or parts.

So, if you tell us what the problem is, we might be able to take a shot at recommending what you need to do. Or of course, since it is still under warranty, you can just wait for a technician. That's entirely reasonable as well.

Also, there probably aren't as many people here who have even seen a closed-burner Bluestar. So, if it is something specific to that style burner, you might be on your own.

M - Thank you for your thoughts. My thoughts about what happened may be viewed by some people as being inflammatory so this is why I'm reticent to explain before Bluestar has had a chance to respond. Again, I will wait and see how Bluestar chooses to handle this problem before I move forward with my final review. I'll post my experience on this thread only.

My former roommate who is a professional chef and worked at Alain Ducasse, Le Bernardin, and Per Se was cooking on my Bluestar RCS sealed burner range. What she did was simply char bell peppers and eggplant over the open burners. It resulted in a delicious caponata but also resulted in burnt on food on the enameled surface and under the burner caps on the burners themselves. I did not think this would become an issue but it did. (As others here may know I cooked on a cheap $500 Premier stove for the last 15 and never had an issue with cleaning the surface cooktop.)

The next day I proceeded to clean my cooktop as normal. At first I used Orange Clean. Then I moved on to baking powder and hydrogen peroxide. I got most of the burnt on food off of the enamel cooktop but very little of the burnt on food came off the burners, under the burner caps.

I then moved on to Easy-Off Oven Cleaner. This has always been my normal process and my mother used this method to clean her Thermador sealed burner range without issues. For me, however, disaster struck.

What I did not realize is that the burners on the Bluestar RCS range are coated with a silver like substance, either paint of some kind or galvanized. Being that these burners get very hot, baked on food and grease would of course be difficult to remove. It shouldn't be impossible, however, and this is why I used Easy-Off. After just 20 minutes after application I went to sponge off the burners and I was dismayed to find that the Easy-Off removed the silver coating on the burners. The silver sludge was difficult to remove between the nooks and crannies and clogged the ignitors. Now my burners do not turn on when lit. At one point when one of the burners wasn't lighting I left the burner clicking and a large fire ignited past the edge of the stove. I was careful not to get too close so as not to catch fire myself.

Here is a photo of a burner. I believe I found a flaw in Bluestar's design. Upon contacting Bluestar I was told that the burners are made by a third party and provided to Bluestar. I am waiting to hear a response. Going forward I believe Bluestar should make burners without a coating that are easily cleaned when the inevitable baked on food and grease gets on them.

Yeah, that's unfortunate. Those are all really caustic chemicals that you used. They'll damage most metal surfaces.

I think, Easy Off is mostly lye and a couple of surfactants. The latter are mostly harmless, but the former will attack many metals. The notable exception is stainless steel. It is actually one of the chemicals that are recommended for stripping chrome plating. So, even when used as directed for cleaning an oven, you need to be careful.

You can also buy Easy Off Fume Free. As far as I can tell, it substitutes potash for lye. This is moderately less aggressive. That's why they tell you that you don't absolutely have to wear gloves when using it. Although in practice, that's probably still a good idea.

But what you describe sounds like zinc plated brass or something similar. That would absolutely get stripped both with lye and with potash. Zinc is easily attacked by anything alkaline. And even if hypothetically the burner heads weren't coated, they would get attacked by lye, just more slowly. At the very least, you'd probably see some discoloration. Not quite sure what potash would do to brass.

Glass and enamel are mostly immune to lye. But even those materials will eventually get damaged. That's why enameled coated cast iron pots turn dull, when you put lye into them. The rate of damage is much slower though. And potash would be even slower in damaging these material. It's about the same rate as what baking soda would do -- and yes, I have seen baking soda dull enamel.

In other words, Easy Off is great stuff. Both the original and the fume free formulations really do work. It dissolves almost everything given enough time. You just hope if dissolves your crud before it dissolves your appliance.

You could theoretically rebuild your burner head. Some careful media blasting would probably restore it for the most part. But that doesn't sound cost effective. Buying a new burner head is likely a better option. And next time, don't use caustic chemicals unless you first check compatibility with all of the materials.

We unfortunately have these stories every once in a while here on Houzz. People use baking soda, Barkeeper's Friend, lye or hydrogen peroxide on all their different surfaces and sometimes even let it soak in for a long time. And then they are shocked to find out that all of these are very strong chemicals that will cause damage.

Edit: It's also possible that this burner head is made out of die-cast aluminum, magnesium, zinc or some sort of alloy of one of these. But the general statement still holds true. All three of these metals are extremely susceptible to damage from any alkaline chemicals.

"Buying a new burner head is likely a better option. And next time, don't use caustic chemicals unless you first check compatibility with all of the materials."

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately there was no way for me to check compatibility with the burners until I used Easy-Off. I just assumed they were not coated as most burners are not coated. Also, I just re-read the manual and there is nowhere stating that the burners are painted or coated. Now all of 6 of my burners and ignitors are damaged.

I just heard back from Bluestar:

Good afternoon David,

I do not have authorization to replace the unit for this issue, as the manual states damage due to cleaning is not covered by the warranty. I can offer a discount on 2 new burner bases, and provide them at $50.00 / each, plus $12.50 for shipping to NY. We have several servicers in the area who could assist with the replacement of these parts, and I would be happy to make a recommendation.

Please let me know any questions.

Regards,

Alison Guss

I just checked, and apparently most manufacturers make their "surface burner heads" from this material. So, that seems normal and the correct thing to do.

The good news is, that for most stoves, the part only costs on the order of $30 to replace. The bad news is that I have not been able to find a replacement part that fits the Bluestar range. I guess, nobody buys the sealed burners for that brand. But you could give guaranteedparts.com a call. They seem to be one of the better places for finding hard-to-get Bluestar replacement parts.

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately there was no way for me to check compatibility with the burners until I used Easy-Off. I just assumed they were not coated as most burners are not coated.

As I tried to explain, Easy Off is pretty nasty stuff. Unless used on enamel or stainless steel (i.e. the interior of an oven), it almost certainly would do damage to most materials.

Read this section in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye#Hazardous_reactions

It really doesn't matter whether the burner heads are coated or not. Lye will damage brass, zinc, magnesium, and aluminum. And my quick research suggests, that all stove manufacturers, regardless of brand, make their surface burner heads out of one of these metals. It really wouldn't make a difference whether the head was plated or solid. The type of damage would be very similar.

I'd take Bluestar up on their offer for discounted parts. Or alternatively, I'd check with guaranteedparts.com. They sometimes have the ability to source parts even cheaper.

I just got off the phone with another Bluestar rep who seemed receptive. He acknowledged that there was no way for me to know that the burners were painted and he will get back to me. The burners on the Bluestar are not zinc plated brass. The range is only a few months old and has a 1 year manufacturer warranty by Bluestar.

Also, my mom has had a sealed burner Thermador for the past 10 years. She never had an issue with using Easy-Off on her burners. This problem, I believe, is unique to Bluestar. We shall see.

I just got off the phone with another Bluestar rep who seemed receptive.

That is great to hear. While I do think this is "pilot error". I appreciate when businesses go above and beyond in their customer service. Glad to hear that that seems to be happening here.

The burners on the Bluestar are not zinc plated brass.

As I said earlier, it's hard to tell from the pictures. I just made an educated guess, since you mentioned a coating. Were you able to determine which material they are made from, though? As stated in the Wikipedia article, lye will attack pretty much any commonly used metal other than stainless steel. And I have never seen burner heads made from SS. Some other metals/alloys might be able to resist lye for a while, but certainly not for extended exposure.

had a sealed burner Thermador for the past 10 years. She never had an issue with using Easy-Off on her burners

From the looks of it, Thermador uses solid brass burner heads. Brass will eventually get damaged by lye. But it can resists it for a while. And it will probably resist potash for a while longer. So, if your mother used the fume-free formulation of Easy-Off and limited the exposure, she might be able to get away with it.

This is still consider an "off label" use for this cleaner. In fact, the manufacturer tells you that the lye based product (it used to be called just Easy-Off, but these days, it's often called Easy-Off Heavy Duty) is incompatible with stove tops:

Can EASY-OFF® Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner be used on stovetops?

EASY-OFF® Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner should not be used on stovetops. The recommended product for stovetops is EASY-OFF® Cooktop Cleaner or EASY-OFF® Specialty Kitchen Degreaser

Can EASY-OFF® Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner be used on stainless steel cookware?

EASY-OFF® Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner is primarily an oven cleaner. We do not recommend using this product on stainless steel cookware since many of the stainless steels today contain a great deal of aluminum.

The restrictions are slightly relaxed for the potash based cleaner (aka Fume Free), but they still warn you:

Is EASY-OFF® Fume Free Oven Cleaner safe for oven racks?

EASY-OFF® Fume Free Oven Cleaner is safe for oven racks, but if the racks have a type of plating on them, it may cause flaking or peeling, and possible staining. Try the product on a small part of the rack to insure that no problem will result.

I tried to tell you @davidhunternyc on an older thread that the cast iron top of the open burner Bluestar would be easier to keep clean than the porcelain sealed burner, but you wouldn't hear me. Nothing beats cast iron.

M Miller - This is too funny. I just watched this video an hour ago and, yes, I did think of you and, yes, I did listen to you. As you know, I did my research and I came to the conclusion that a sealed burner range would be easier to clean than an open burner range. Nothing prepared me for the discovery of the coating used on the Bluestar sealed burners. The Bluestar manual doesn't say there is a coating or paint on their sealed burners so I thought I was safe. As awful as this experience has been for me hopefully these posts will help others avoid the same mishaps. Granted, M Miller, an open burner Bluestar range does not have the flawed burners used on the sealed burner range so perhaps the open burner Bluestar is the better choice.

“At first I used Orange Clean. Then I moved on to baking powder and hydrogen peroxide”

Setting aside what happened to your burner, I think you are an overzealous cleaner. A cooking appliance with sealed burners will inevitably get marks on it, scratches, and some permanently-burned-on stuff (an open burner, a lot of that drips or falls through). That’s just what will happen.

So I have two points to make. First, you need to get comfortable with a rangetop that will look used. You are cooking with it, and the days of it looking the way it did when first installed are brief. When you replace these burners, the new ones will also get stuff burned on. Shrug! Second, your overzealous cleaning. My kitchen came with a 15-year-old sealed-burner range with an enamel top. All I’ve ever used on it is a damp Dobie sponge and liquid dish soap. I cannnot imagine applying the stuff that you mentioned onto the rangetop. The old range looks great given the amount of cooking we do, which is like, really a lot. When it comes to cleaning products, less is more!

I will say that the burner caps on my dated range (I am talking about those large circles which frankly irk me cause they leave a cold spot in the center of the pan) appear to be cast iron circles, though the rest of the cooktop surface is enameled. When this range dies (who knows when that will be), I will be getting a range with a cast iron top, but will still just use a Dobie sponge on it.

I still do not know what material my burners are made from. Bluestar did not make them and are from third party providers. My point of contention is, why isn‘t there any mention by Bluestar as to the materials used and paint used on their parts? How would I know what cleaners to use on their burners If not given the information? Even if Bluestar were to replace the burners and igniters on my stove I will still have to take the old burners and expensively duplicate them out of solid brass with a CNC machine to raise the quality of this stove to what I was expecting.

I'd be quite interested what the material turns out to be. Just because I'm generally a curious person. And rest assured, this is not going to be mere "paint". It's either and kind of metallic coating, or it's actually a solid die cast material that started decomposing leaving you with some of the degraded material that used to be at the surface.

But having said that, I so far don't see anything wrong with the material choice. As long as it stands up to the heat and doesn't corrode under normal use, there really isn't any concern. And that can be achieved with a large number of commonly used industrial materials.

As I have said before, you cannot just throw random chemicals at your appliances and expect them to be unscathed. Even the manufacturer tells you not to use Easy-Off as a household cleaner. Brass will eventually get damaged by lye, although some alloy compositions might stand up to it longer than others. So, your Mom might have just been lucky. I can promise that Thermadore doesn't condone this procedure

“why isn‘t there any mention by Bluestar as to the materials used and paint used on their parts? How would I know what cleaners to use on their burners If not given the information?”

It doesn’t appear you read my post. Or you did, but dismissed it. It doesn’t matter what your burners‘ materials are. Dial back on the cleaners, OK? Clean the burners with a sponge like a Dobie sponge along with some dishwashing liquid, done. Get comfortable with the idea that cooktop burners - of any kind - will not look like new for long. You go back to your heavy-duty cleaners, you will be back where you started.

Shannon_WI - Yes, I had read your post and I thank you for your comments. My last stove, a $500 Magic Chef was kept perfectly clean at all times. Yes, after 15 years it finally rusted and fell apart but I did not have this issue with a stove that costs 1/10th of what my Bluestar stove cost me. My mother's stove still looks brand new, like the day it was installed. The reason why I passed on the Thermador is because I never liked the on/off flame with low simmering. I did try other methods of cleaning before I reached for the Easy-Off. Also, I did not know Easy-Off is considered a "commercial" cleaner. I buy it at the corner grocery store and it has never let me down in the past.

I used to work in a chemical lab where we had to analyze industrial samples. You can't analyze solids; they have to be brought into solution first. One of the popular ways to do so was dissolving them in lye (i.e. the main ingredient in Easy Off). It dissolves most metals, and with some application of heat even does a good job on various other minerals.

So, if you apply lye to your stove top (in direct contradiction to what the manufacturer tells you), it will do what it is meant to do and dissolve the metal components of your stove -- and it'll probably also dull your enamel over time.

Complaining about a lack of warning in Bluestar's user manual is on par with complaining that they didn't warn you that an angle grinder doesn't make for a good cleaning tool either. It's obviously the wrong tool for the job, even if it is true that it will make short work of any grime. But the appliance manufacturer can't anticipate every incorrect "cleaning" procedure that a homeowner could conceive off. The fact that some other brand stood up to this type of abuse for a little longer isn't really a great excuse either.

As I said, even brass will get eaten away by lye. It might just take longer. And it certainly will damage all the other fittings around the same area. If you absolutely cannot resist the temptation of using corrosive cleaners, stick to baking soda or pot ash. They are a little less aggressive (but still plenty strong). And try them on a small sample of your material first. Then wipe off as soon as you are done cleaning and rinse a couple of times. Things like aluminum or zinc (or allows that include these materials) will most likely still get pitted.

So here is a photo in the Bluestar manual about cleaning the Burner Ring. It clearly states that to "clean the burner ring with commercially available oven cleaner with each use". It also says to NOT allow commercial oven cleaner to touch painted surfaces. Bluestar told me that the burners are made by a third party. Now where in the manual does it say that the burners are painted, and they probably are not painted as "M" suggests. They are probably galvanized. So technically they are not painted and the manual says to use a commercial cleaner on non-painted burner rings. I had no way of knowing I would ruin the burners. Also, would you consider Easy-Off which is, commonly available, a commercial cleaner? I did not but since this mishap I have reconsidered. Even so, if Easy-Off is not to be used on the burners then Bluestar should state this. The manual says to use a commercial cleaner on the burners and I did not think it would be a problem.

Going forward, Bluestar needs to address the manufacturing of their sealed burners. Make them without a coating so they could be easily cleaned when food and grease gets baked on them. Before I bought this range I noticed many other manufacturers use solid brass burners. Solid brass or stainless steel would be could choices.

I am still waiting for Bluestar to respond. At first they blamed me entirely and refused to accept any responsibility. The manual should state the the burner rings are coated. It's impossible for me to tell just by looking at them. I thought they were solid metal.

I buy it at the corner grocery store and it has never let me down in the past.

In the US, lots of potentially dangerous materials are sold for household use: lye, baking soda, hydrogen peroxide, ammonia, hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid, ammonium nitrate, acetone, bleach, ethylene glycol, formaldehyde, phenol, trichlorethane, nitrobenzene, triclosan, organophosphates, neonicotinoids, ...

These are just the ones the I can think of off the top of my head; and it's not even talking about obviously challenging stuff such as thermite or gun powder.

And I could run over to the local drugstore and probably pick up all of these items this very moment. They are in commonly used products, they have well-defined specific use cases, consumers are very fond of these products, and as long as you use them as directed, their risks are really well-defined and manageable.

None of these are "commercial" per se. But they do require some amount of caution.

Thank you, M. I do appreciate your intelligence and contribution to this discussion. As stated in the Bluestar manual there should've been no problem using commercial cleaners on the burner rings. Obviously I discovered the opposite and your thoughts will steer me in a different direction if Bluestar replaces the burners and igniters. If it's not cost prohibitive I will take the old burner rings and have them CNC'd out of solid brass or stainless steel for longevity.

David,

The cleaning instruction page that you posted here is from the Bluestar Use and Care manual that covers both open and sealed burner ranges. The "Burner Ring Grate/Cast Iron" entry is referring to the ring shaped, porcelain coated, cast iron top grate on open burner ranges. The damaged part that you are referring to is not referenced in the cleaning instructions at all. The closest would be "Burner Ports/Cast Iron", but that is referring to the burner in the open burner range, which is also made of porcelain covered cast iron.

John,

Thank you for the clarification. Based on what you said, what is the the actual name of the part that was damaged? I know that the part in question is part of the burner assembly but I don't know what the actual name is. I assumed it was the burner ring because it's a ring shape that is part of the burner. This is the care manual that came with my range and it is what I referenced. It's odd because there are six of these burners on my stove and they are significant parts. There is instructions on how to clean the burner caps (minor compared to the burners) so why isn't there instructions on how to clean these burners?

As stated in the Bluestar manual there should've been no problem using commercial cleaners on the burner rings.

When I hear "commercial cleaners", I think of different types of surfactants (i.e. some sort of soap). So, something like "Easy Off Stove Top Cleaner" would be a good match. They make lots of different types of good detergents and surfactants these days. They aren't as aggressive as strong alkaline cleaners, but they often still do a good job.

Just to be clear, "commercial cleaner" doesn't necessarily mean "any random chemical that can clean", even if in some specific applications, this chemical might very well be used as a cleaner. Let's take this to an extreme. Hydrofluoric acid is an amazing cleaning product when making computer chips. There really isn't any alternative. But you'd be a fool to use it as a general purpose cleaner. It's some of the nastiest stuff out there. Get it on your hands, and you can remove your skin like a glove. Put it into a glass container, and it turns into a gas that spreads everywhere -- before subsequently dissolving your skin.

The same is true for things like lye. Used as intended as an oven cleaner, it works wonders. Not much else can eat through burned-on grease as easily as lye. And most ovens are intentionally built so that they can withstand chemical oven cleaner. But that doesn't make oven cleaner a general purpose "commercial cleaner". It's still a special-purpose product. And Easy-Off publishes an FAQ on their website for a reason: You are most-certainly not the only person who has been impressed by its effectiveness and been tempted to use it for all sorts of creative cleaning jobs. And yes, sometimes, if you are careful, this might even work. It's not as if the rest of us haven't been tempted, either.

And we learn from our mistakes. Ask me one day, how I learned that not all aluminum is dishwasher safe.

M - So let's just say Bluestar fixes this issue and I need to move forward with coming up with a cleaning solution for burnt on food and grease. What would you use to clean a stovetop? Like Shannon, would you only use dishwashing soap and a Dobie sponge? I'm sorry, I want to keep my stovetop as clean as a whistle. It's why I bought a sealed burner range to begin with. Also, a few times a year I need to clean the oven interior. I've always used Easy-Off in the past but now I don't know what to use. I am too scared to try anything at this point!

What about orange oil?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0141AV2FQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I need to apologize to you. I hadn't previously seen the quoted section of the manual that you posted (Houzz sometimes arranges messages a little out of order).

Yes, that is very misleading, and in view of those comments, I do feel I need to revise my answer and put more blame on Bluestar. I still think that their choice of materials is fine. And that the use of oven cleaner on non-iron parts was foolish. But Bluestar does admittedly mention oven cleaner in their instructions, and they confusingly don't mention the parts that need to be protected from the oven cleaner.

Other manufacturers refer to this particular part as "surface burner heads". And Bluestar doesn't mention such a component at all. I don't think they even mention it by a different name. So, I can see how a consumer would be confused and think that it is one of the other parts mentioned in the manual.

An experienced Houzz forum member would probably notice that Bluestar only ever recommend oven cleaner for parts that are made from cast iron (a material that is mostly immune to lye) or more specifically for ceramic coated cast iron (a material that almost certainly is immune to lye unless previously damaged). But that's not something you can be expected to spot.

I suspect what happened is that Bluestar really only released the capped burners as an afterthought. As we had previously discussed, this type of stove is not their core expertise. And their technical writers simply forgot to update the cleaning instructions with another section. It's unfortunate that you fell victim to this documentation flaw. And yes, that is something that Bluestar should compensate you for. To the best of your ability, you were following their instructions and couldn't be expected to notice that the instructions were incomplete.

M - Thank you for your updated comment. Yes, I really was trying to do the right thing. I used Easy-Off on the "surface burner heads" for just 20 minutes and then the coating came off. I had no idea there was any coating to begin with. Bluestar admitted to me that the burner heads were made by a third party and they also do not know what material they are made from or what the coating is on them. If I could return the stove and trade it in for the open burner model, I would, but it is what it is at this point. Bluestar is still continuing to blame me and so far their customer service has been awful. I wanted to trust Bluestar because they are an American company operating in Pennsylvania.

To be fair, “commercially available oven cleaner” isn’t the same as a commercial oven cleaner. Commercially available = you can buy it at any store. Commercial = formulated for use in restaurants and other high-use instances.

Those burner heads look to be aluminum. Take them off and have it glass beaded to clean and restore a bare finish. You can clean it with a stainless steel wire brush from Home Depot.

For clarification I am 99 and 44/100's sure your burners are cast aluminum as are many current gas burners in residential ranges. I doubt they were coated with anything but rather just the smooth cast surface but since we are talking about their current state and what to do I would use a stiff short bristled nylon or natural bristle brush to remove the whitish deposits, Basically this is aluminum corrosion on the surface, aluminum can corrode this way in a coastal salt air environment as well. I would first try this dry with vacuum cleaner to suck up the debris. If the ignitors still will not work after this then replacing them seems in order. I assume you replaced the burner caps before trying to re-light them . The exposed outer perimeter ring of the burner base could be polished up a bit with a metal polish-Met-all is one brand name-but don't get it on the porcelain in case it may scratch. Going forward this part of the burner should not be fussed with unless a big boilover spill clogs the vertical gas exit slits. Just clean your burner caps and the porcelain cooktop base. Re-read your earlier post, sounds like your chef friend removed the burner caps and "charred peppers over the open burner" with food burning on to the burner base. Well. that is a no no, these burners are to be used with the caps in place-you can't turn a sealed burner into an open burner by partially disassenbling it.

Yes, I really was trying to do the right thing. I used Easy-Off on the "surface burner heads" for just 20 minutes and then the coating came off.

I am so glad you posted the user manual. You initially gave the impression as just being unreasonably overzealous with your cleaning efforts. And to be honest, sometimes it isn't possible to clean things perfectly. IMHO, a little bit of signs of use in a heavily used appliance is just fine.

But the story completely changed because Bluestar actually instructed you to use oven cleaner outside of the oven. Normally, that's a spectacularly bad idea. But there is an exception for things made out of 1) stainless steel, 2) cast iron and 3) some types of porcelain; brass is more iffy, but might be another exception.

So, Bluestar's traditional stove top design is one of the few that can handle Easy Off (assuming you don't necessarily spill it on parts other than the grates.

While I don't fault them for the design and material choices in their capped burners, I do fault them for failing to update the instructions. Those cleaning instructions are setting anybody up for failure. And Bluestar should be expected to remedy that situation.

I strongly encourage you to change your messaging when you talk to customer support. Don't complain about their non-ferrous materials. Those are fine, as they are used industry wide. Complain about faulty instructions, which you followed to the best of your abilities. They'll probably come back and tell you that they didn't mean for the instructions to say what you read into them. But that doesn't make much sense if they use technical terms that consumers can't be expected to know and if they additionally fail to provide alternatives for the more fragile components, that's their own fault.

I don't recommend you take the legal route here, but if hypothetically speaking you decided to take them to court, then I suspect their misleading cleaning instructions would be interpreted in your favor. But then, that's a question that you'd have to ask a lawyer to know for certain.

Thank you everyone for your help. For the sake of clarity I have had my Bluestar RCS Range since the middle of May 2019. We are now in the middle of September 2019 so I have had the range for 4 months. I have always cleaned the surface with soap and water without issues. It was only when my friend charred peppers and eggplant on the open burners 6 days ago did cleaning become an issue. I tried using gentle methods first to remove burnt on food and grease before I used Easy-Off. I would not categorize myself as an over zealous cleaner. I only used Easy-Off as a last resort. My kitchen is small without much ventilation and I've gotten sick from the fumes given off by Easy-Off in the past. The fumes are hazardous so I only use this cleaner for extreme situations.

One of the reasons why I purchased a Bluestar over any other manufacturer was the excellent customer service. I called Bluestar several times before my purchase to ask questions. They were always very helpful and assured me that if I had any issues with my stove to call them and they would immediately fix the issue within the first year warranty period. I trusted them.

This was not case when this problem happened. When I first called Bluestar I did have someone explain to me that they had no idea what material the burner heads were made from and what coating was on them. I was told that the burner heads were outsourced and supplied by a third party. This was the first and only time I was able to talk to someone at Bluestar. From then on I repeatedly called, left messages, and no one would call me back. I sent emails with photos and I was blamed immediately for the issue without them hearing me out. This is why I thought it was important to talk to someone on the phone so I could explain myself. Still, no one from Bluestar would return my phone calls. So disappointing, especially considering I thought that I had built a positive rapport with one of the reps.

Then I had to get everyone I knew involved, including all of you at houzz. I sent an email to a Bluestar service provider who had helped calibrate my stove after installation. I called the appliance dealer where I bought the stove and talked to the salesman and the front of the office. They were dismayed with this story and were very understanding. They gave me the phone number of the Bluestar rep in the NYC area who supplies the appliance dealership.

This is where things turned around for the better. The Bluestar rep called me back and, for the first time, I was able to have a conversation with Bluestar about my issue. I was quite lucky to talk to him because he too has the exact same model of stove in his own apartment. He acknowledged that he had no idea what the burner heads were made from nor what coating was on them. He also said that he never thought about it before because he just never cleans his burner heads. We had a laugh. : )

He then read the Use and Care Manual and agreed with me that any normal consumer would assume that the "burner rings" (because it's a ring shaped burner) in the manual referred to the "burner head" on my range but he said the the burner rings mentioned in the manual referred to the open burner model range not my sealed burner range. He admitted that there is no care instructions for the sealed burner heads in the manual.

He then went to bat for me. He talked to the head supervisor at the Bluestar service department and, indeed, they agreed to replace all of my burners and igniters free of charge, labor included. Whew! I am so relieved that I did not have to go the legal route and drag this issue forward. Furthermore, this Bluestar rep who helped me did some investigation about the burners.

Well, it turns out that the burners are made from aluminum. Neither he nor the supervisor at the service department can determine what the coating is on the burner heads. It's odd because Easy-Off turned that silver coating to a sludgy, goopy, clogging mess. I have removed galvenized coatings from sheet pans before and it didn't goop up like the burner heads did. This is why I initially thought that that burner heads were painted.

I would think that the burner heads on any range are among the most important parts but it seems to me that Bluestar's choice of burner heads for their RCS range was an after thought. Today when the Bluestar rep talked to me about the burner heads he agreed that the burner heads needed overhauled. He had a conversation with the supervisor about manufacturing better burner heads in the future and he had hope that Bluestar would do this. Unfortunately it's not going to help my case now. The Bluestar rep also said that Bluestar is going to immediately update their Use and Care Manual to address the care of the burner heads for their sealed burner ranges. This will be a big help.

I also addressed the importance of upgrading their sealed burner head design as soon as possible. There are going to be many consumers of this stove who will blindly do what I did to clean the burner heads. For better and for worse Easy-Off is an intuitive cleaner to use for baked on food and grease on stoves and this could be a nightmare for Bluestar going forward. Again, the Bluestar rep acknowledged my concerns and agreed that the current burner heads need replacing. I suggested solid brass or 303 stainless steel. ( M- please feel free to weigh in here.)

"A lot of traditional ranges use aluminum burners. Unlike brass, aluminum has a low melting point (around 1200F), so they tend to warp and deform over time. Aluminum absorbs heat faster because it's less dense than brass, but it doesn't retain the heat for a long time. This means that the temperature drops down much faster with aluminum burners than with brass burners. This fact may be appealing to those with children or those who want faster burner cooling times. Additionally, aluminum burners are less corrosion resistant and have a shorter lifespan as compared to brass burners."

At least I have a solution. Would I have bought the Bluestar RCS Sealed Burner Range had I known that the burners were made from aluminum with a yet-to-be-determined coating on them? No. I remember several other manufactures with solid brass and solid stainless steel burner heads that were superior to Bluestar's burner heads but other flaws, like cooling fans, kept me away from those other manufacturers.

Maybe going forward I could figure out a way to CNC the burner heads from Bluestar out of solid brass. (It would void my warranty, however.) That would raise the quality of my stove to what I expected it to be in the first place. Also, I planned on writing a review of my Bluestar Range and was going to give it 4 out of 5 stars. Based on my experience with this range and with Bluestar's customer service I just can't recommend the Bluestar RCS Sealed Burner Range to anyone at this point.

I am now wondering if I've discoverd a greater problem.

Aluminum has a low melting point (around 1200F), so they tend to warp and deform over time.

Questions: With two aluminum burner heads on the Bluestar RCS rated at 21,000 btu's, will the burner heads reach 1200º F and start to deform? How long will this take?

I wouldn't be overly worried about heat damage. It's a pretty solid chunk of aluminum. And it doesn't have the heat directed at it. That's actually a little bit above it. On the other hand, there is plenty of cookware that is made out of aluminum and that does have heat directed at it. And yes, people have managed to damage their aluminum pots. But it takes a combination of unfortunate events and it usually happens to thinner aluminum pots. So, no, I would not be particularly concerned. If this was a regular problem, we'd hear about it all the time.

I am really happy to hear that you had this issue resolved under warranty. That is great news. I love it when a story works out fine.

As for warranty, I don't think you would risk your warranty should you really decide to replace the aluminum parts with brass. Under the Magnuson Moss warranty act, this would likely be something where Bluestar would need to prove that your modification caused the problem. Having said that, this is maybe not a battle you want to fight. You might be right under the law, but that still doesn't mean your rights would be easy to enforce.

As for the rating of the range, personally it reaffirms what I had always believed. The open burners are awesome. The capped burners were a response to market demands, but it really isn't playing to the strengths of the brand. I suspect this is still a really good range compared to many other brands. But if you already decided on buying Bluestar, you probably should look at the open burners. There is little that the capped burners do and that you couldn't also get with the open ones.

davidhunternyc:

" Maybe going forward I could figure out a way to CNC the burner heads from Bluestar out of solid brass. (It would void my warranty, however.) "

You should also check with your homeowners insurance company to make sure that it does not violate your policy for fire insurance. I think that appliances like this must be certified by various agencies in order to be sold to the consumer.

"Under the Magnuson Moss warranty act"...

M - How do you come up with stuff? : )

Normally I wouldn't be too concerned about aluminum burners, even though the ones on my cheap Premier stove had to be replaced frequently. The aluminum burner heads were thin but the output was only 9100 btu's. Conversely the Bluestar burner heads max out at 21,000 btu's so I think that is why I'm concerned. Do I believe that Bluestar could've made a sealed burner range with the same integrity as their open burner range? Yes, and this simply would've required a simple change in materials. If the burners on the sealed RCS ranges were made from solid brass or solid stainless steel I would not have had the problems I did.

I don't expect anyone to have read all of my posts but I did consider the open burner Bluestar. In the past a friend of mine owned the open burner Bluestar and I had done some limited cooking on the range. At the time I was neither swayed one way or the other but my friend who was an expert cook told me she hated cleaning the open burners on her Bluestar and if she could choose another range she would choose one with sealed burners. I get it. She and I are not professional chefs. We are avid home cooks and we just want easy clean up.

There have been many debates about the ease of clean up between open and sealed burner ranges and I don't need to open that pandora's box yet again. In the end, it was mom's Thermador range that "sealed" the deal for me. It was always in immaculate condition and I was amazed with how easy it was to clean. So I made my choice. In retrospect I now know that it was the wrong choice. After my experience with the sealed burner RCS I now wish I had chosen the open burner range instead.

Live and learn I guess. At this point Bluestar will not let me exchange my current range for an open burner model. Also, I am not wealthy and it took me ages to save up enough money to purchase the Bluestar RCS. I tried not to make mistakes and I asked a ton of questions and did my research. I just missed the details regarding the sealed burner heads.

Bluestar still does not know what the coating is on my burner heads. I doubt, too, that Bluestar would ever give me the CAD models so I can CNC the burner heads from solid brass. I also do not think Bluestar will forward me the information so I can contact the third party maker of Bluestar's burner heads. Yes, Bluestar did finally agree to replace the burner heads on my range but I will always know that the burners are compromised due to the coating on the heads and the use of aluminum instead of a more robust metal.

"You should also check with your homeowners insurance company to make sure that it does not violate your policy for fire insurance. I think that appliances like this must be certified by various agencies in order to be sold to the consumer."

Thank you, John. I live in a rental apartment. I do have renter's insurance, however.

Your landlord would have building fire insurance so they may need to know about it.