If you look at the bottom of the page there are two footnotes. The lifetime cost is based on a 20 year life. To calculate the annual cost you can divide the number by 20. The annual cost is basically the cost of natural gas used during the 20 years. The footnote assumes the cost of gas is $1.05 per 100K BTUs. The price of gas of lower than that in most parts of the country. Find out what your gas rate currently is and multiply by the ratio of the rates to get a more accurate cost. This would still be a gross estimate since it does not account for your winter climate or the heat loss of your house.

Thank you. Where did you find all of the extra info in the footnote?

Do most propane boilers only last 20 years?

Scroll to the very bottom of the page:

A properly maintained gas or propane boiler should last 30-40 years in my opinion.

Very few are made "like they used to be". A 30-40 year life may not be a good thing based on where technology and infrastructure is headed. 30 year old combustion exhaust ducting might be suspect. Be sure you eliminate cold-climate heat pumps as a better option.

Compare fuel costs of high efficiency heat pumps with gas boilers using this home heating calculator. The ductless heat pump option can also save a lot on cooling costs.

James,

Are you looking to replace an existing boiler which has radiators or baseboards, or are you looking for a boiler for a new home build? The options and life expectancy could be very different depending on what you are trying to accomplish. The availability of natural gas and the cost of electricity in your area will also influence the options.

Hi, I'm looking to replace an oil boiler that heats hotwater baseboards (those would not be replaced). NG is not an option, we are out in the woods nor is electricity an option for heating.

You have no electricity? How do you circulate the water? How cold is your climate?

I don't know what the OP has in mind, and maybe he's in a high cost electricity region, but I thought I would fill in a blank for those with limited HVAC knowledge. .

I lived for almost 3 years in a home with an oil boiler that served hot water (not steam) to wall mounted radiators. With no circulation pumps. I was in a cool but not cold climate in Western Europe, not far from the ocean and not too far north.

It's called gravity hot-water heating and it works just fine. Hot water rises and cooler water descends in a piping system designed and laid out with these dynamics in mind. I doubt this applies to James Ladenson's situation but no-pump systems are not uncommon in older structures in some areas.

Familiar with thermosiphoning, many solar water heaters do that. Gravity is something different.

Powering a 2019 propane boiler? That suggests electricity and cold climate ductless heat pumps are almost sure to be a better investment.

I looked up thermosiphoning in Wikipedia. It looks to be similar but different. Remember that the term gravity hot-water is probably more than 100 years old, before catchy buzz words were in vogue.

" That suggests electricity and cold climate ductless heat pumps are almost sure to be a better investment. "

Is it an investment, or a cost? It's very likely to be a much higher cost, don't you think? And odd that you would recommend it without knowing where the house is.

We are actually looking at this right now for a new build and some say propane with heat pumps and others say the pumps are not good to get., use strictly propane without the pumps. Would also love to know the answer. Thanks for asking the question!

My undergraduate thesis was on thermosiphoning over thirteen years ago. If I had called it "gravity hot water" I might have failed.

Utility markets where propane beats heat pump are pretty much extinct. Would be interested to know what location comes out ahead with propane using this home heating calculator. Note that default values for Maine's very cold climate has ductless heat pump saving $2135 per year compared to propane boiler.

So yeah, heat pumps are easily a better investment than propane. For most of the US, they are a better investment than natural gas. That's just for heating. Heat pumps also provide cooling and dehumidification, which gas can't do.

He's got plumbing and radiators in place, he just needs a boiler. There's no one universal solution to every problem, why do you seem to think so?

How much to remove and repair what's existing before installing a more expensive system? To restrict his spending to just a replacement boiler has to be a big money saver like what, maybe 75% cheaper?

$2135 X 5 years = $10,675

$2135 X 10 years = $21,350

I don't know answer to OP's riddles but would include fuel cost savings if possible.

Sorry- I meant that using electricity is not an option for heating- we do how power. Heat pumps are not viable for us with the amount of rooms and being a 2 story house.

What I'm looking for advice on which is less costly in the long run, Oil or Propane. It seems like oil would be thus far.

James,

If you post the oil and propane rates, a calculation of the cost to run each boiler can be generated. The efficiency of the boilers you are considering would be used.

I would normally not recommend an oil fired boiler for a new build, however in your case staying with oil may be the best option. If you switched to propane you would have to buy a propane tank and install the associated piping to make the switch. The other advantage of making the switch to propane is if you wanted to install a gas stove, hot water heater, and clothes dryer. Depending on rats you could save operating costs. But unfortunately propane are variable and its hard to predict future costs.

If the baseboard radiators are working well then there is no reason to remove them and install some type of forced hot air system. Baseboard heating has become a luxury item in cold climates. It is the more comfortable and quieter than any heat pump heating system. I would think twice before removing it.

Propane is in the home for the range, firepalce and dryer. We rent a tank. I am not sure I'd buy a tank at this point. It's a single 120 gallon tank.

Oil rates for last year varied from $2.61 to $2.79

Propane was $2.79

I definitely have not desire in removing the baseboard heating, we prefer that over forced air.

In 2018 we used 743.1 gallons of oil and 85.2 gallons of propane.

Ductless heat pumps and ducted minis are very different than the "forced-air" systems of yore. I might consider a boiler replacement AND installing a small ductless heat pump in the most important area. You might find you prefer the ductless.

Plenty of people are installing ductless or ducted mini-split systems in two level houses with multiple rooms in cold climates. Not pushing as ultimate solution, just making people aware that it's an option that is likely to be a better investment than propane, possibly NG.

"Forced-air" and concerns of noise or comfort, suggests not enough research and little experience with high efficiency heat pump systems.

I've been in homes with heat pumps and they are OK I just don't want the big headers on the walls. I'd consider one the master but anywhere else I'd have to forgo that. You save on oil using one but then your electrical bill goes up. :)

I hear ya. Used to share your wall wart snobbery but after my old home's yearly heating oil costs were eliminated and electric bill barely changed, I've grown to love the look. I especially appreciate it in the summer. Wall mounts are the most efficient but there are growing numbers of options for better aesthetics with mini-splits like ceiling mounted and ducted.

Your house sounds large and wasteful. You might consider getting an estimate from a home performance contractor to make your home more comfortable and energy efficient.

James,

A gallon of propane produces 91,333 BTUs of heat, compared with a gallon of oil produces 138,690 BTUs. That means the oil produces about 34% more heat per gallon. Heating with oil will be cheaper even if the efficiency of the oil fired boiler is lower than that of the propane fired boiler.

The price of the propane would need to come down compared to oil. I think the only way to do that is to install your own propane tank. If you are not going to do that, then staying with oil is your better option.

So James, you mention that heat pump is not an option because you have a 2 story house with multiple rooms? That makes no sense at all.

You have been in houses you don't like - ok.

When most people think of heat pumps, they are usually central ducted options when the room count and floor count doesn't matter. So I am confused.

What climate are you in? Do you have air conditioning?

In what market does a propane dryer make sense? MA? That is the only possible one I can think of. Because CA has NG in the vast majority of houses.

You mention rates but not electricity?

The crazy estimates you see for boilers are based on crazy usage patterns. The EPA assumes that a 250k boiler is actually necessary which is where the rates come from. Not realistic by any stretch. They make assumptions about run times which is based on averages. So if you put in a 150k boiler, you are automatically using 50% more than a 100k boiler which is not realistic.

You are spending in the 95%ile for fuel. So expect some advice to try and reduce that. I have heat pumps that I can't tell are running (and do not have wall units) and I spend about $100 a year to heat 4,000 sqft.

I live in central Maine where our winters can get down to -20F, usually at around 0F. The gas dryer has saved us a lot of money on electrical. I'll look into getting an audit of what size boiler we'd need.

How can producing heat with expensive propane dryer save money vs electric? I can't see that - it doesn't matter what your outside temp is for a clothes dryer.

I googled Maine's electricity cost which was 7.8 cents per kwh. But there is huge variability. But there is no part of Maine that pays so much for electricity that a Propane dryer saves money.

You can get air-to-water heat pumps that would only have one large header outside. The savings most of the year may pay for the days that you have to resort to the resistance heat (electric strips) and more. A different question is whether you can find someone local to provide and support. It would certainly cost more up front than a propane boiler. May also be worth it/possible in your situation to get hot water from the same heat pump boiler.

I'm not sure if I was not clear or not, but we do not heat our home with a gas dryer or range... we cook with the range and dryer our cloths with the dryer.

What about heat pumps with an electric coil?

Yes James but propane is the most expensive fuel for home appliances. If you want to save energy or money with a dryer, learn to live with the relative inconvenience of a heat pump dryer or condenser dryer.

Consider replacing your gas cooktop with an induction cooktop. They are better in almost every way, definitely energy use.

Heat pumps with traditional electric resistance (coils) backup are problematic because they are programmed to come on in low temperatures which the newer cold-climate heat pumps can still deal with at remarkable efficiency. Heat pumps are now capable of heating with no electric resistance down to -17F degrees and colder. I think some locations call for electric resistance deicers for outdoor compressors but they use a fraction of the energy of traditional resistance heating.

One of the problems with minisplits, whether the standard ugly cartridge type or the so called ductless ones, is that contractor expertise can be hard to find. That's changing but standard split systems are much cheaper to buy and install and easier and cheaper to get serviced.

Someone I know very well bought a new home in a warm climate area with a ductless minispit system. There were mistakes made with the install and it took nearly 6 months to get everything sorted out.

"Consider replacing your gas cooktop with an induction cooktop. They are better in almost every way, definitely energy use."

Maybe you should go to his house and tell him how to decorate his living room too?

Elmer you have much wisdom with your anecdotal accounts but the industry is doing well with minisplits in my experience. HVAC contractor attitudes are much different than even 5 years ago. It took a leap on my personal home to convince me. Contractors with experience in Mitsubishi and Fujitsu brands are especially on board. I met a new subcontractor just a few hours ago who agreed that minisplits are the most efficient, reliable and affordable way to heat and cool. Don't like look of wall head? Plenty of other options by sacrificing some of those three things.

If James wants to get decorating advice, I suggest he post to that forum. This thread seems to be more about propane appliances. Although I would love to offer thoughts on related subjects of cooktop ventilation and the presumably terrible attic performance situation.

I for one appreciate this thread because we are trying to decide on what we will be using for our cooling/heating in our new build. We go between propane tank in the ground, pumps with electric coil, or pumps and propane. Everyone tells you something different!

" the industry is doing well with minisplits in my experience."

Of course, it makes jobs bigger with more profit to the contractors.

"HVAC contractor attitudes are much different than even 5 years ago. "

Have you ever met any kind of contractor who doesn't prefer to recommend and sell work that's more expensive? If you consider that an endorsement of some kind, I'd suggest what you're seeing is an expected endorsement of capitalism. You must deal with a lot of easily fooled customers if lines like that convince them to spend to more than they want or need to.

" Elmer you have much wisdom with your anecdotal accounts "

Another word for wisdom from recurring anecdotal learning is experience.

@Ladenson - for clarity, as people are talking about different things, I was referring to the type of air-to-water heat pump that would use your existing hot water baseboards, i.e. would replace your existing boiler, not minisplits - no headers indoors. This is common in some markets (esp Europe). It's not quite so simple as your baseboards may not be sized right (heat pump output temperatures tend to be lower) for the coldest temperatures, meaning you'd have to resort to 'backup' more often.

In some places, hybrid systems are used (heat pump plus natural gas/propane boiler) - heat pump delivers most of the heat, the gas-fired part kicks in only when higher temperatures needed. Or electric resistance can 'upgrade' the heat to the needed temperature. It can work and be better financially depending on local conditions/fuel and electricity prices; propane is expensive and your electricity reasonably priced, so possible it would make sense.

You'd need someone with experience with these systems though and may not be available locally, up-front cost higher than a propane boiler. I'm probably in a similar climate to Maine, i.e. no A/C requirement and heating can be required in every month of the year (typically little save hot water for the two warmest summer months, but we can get cold nights even in summer). It's only the coldest month (roughly, perhaps 15-30 days) that would require much 'extra' heat. Doesn't make financial sense (for me) because of cheap natural gas - more expensive propane might change the calculation.

We tested with and without gas range/dryer and it saves us $ on the electrical bill- there's no point arguing that as we're not going to change that up. We cook 2-3 times a day everyday and with kids, the dryer is handy.

I thank you for everyone's comments. We'll keep researching and will probably have an audit done but am leaning towards an oil-fired buderos boiler and maybe a heat pump in the master down the road.

The OP asked about boiler options. You're ready to sell him something he doesn't want for a price he won't want to pay for the massive retrofit work required.

Take a long weekend, maybe go on vacation. Job bids like that won't have a high rate of acceptance.

PS, I've been dealing with a number of contractors lately. None of them do broad internet searches or refer to online articles to answer questions or address a project's requirements. Their knowledge and expertise is carried in their heads and is available for immediate access. "I'll have to check into that" or "here's an article I found" is a sign that the speaker's knowledge is limited.