Dinner sheet pan lasagna. Barilla now makes a no-boil rice lasagna sheet.

Bottom layer thin sliced sweet potato and/or white. Spinach, white bean béchamel, pasta layer, tomato sauce, minced mixed veg layer, pasta layer, sliced veg like zucchini eggplant, tom sauce, top sliced fresh tomatoes. Last dollops of white bean béchamel. Cover and bake. Uncover for last 20 min.

Great if she makes some 'signature' sauces. I know she makes humus so it is a rif on that. One blender session. Starting with Peruvian green sauce. (the most clean of ingredients)...leave a bit in the jar, then add this or that like white beans or chick peas, cucumber, then tahini, toasted sesame oil, then chipotle or a couple sundered tomatoes or fresh, , then end up with two-three salad dressing using lime/lemon, olive oil/vinegars...She is bit more focused than I am as I wing it, but focusing she could bang out six or so 'OMG' dipping, sandwich, salad dressings in no time.

I've been making small batch on the weekends and seldom last by mid week. When I take any into work they call it 'OMG' salad dressing.

I really advise to watch the starches. A whole day of "but no animal products", if not balanced, can make people feel very blah. I'm not saying no starch, of course, but substituting starch for protein isn't a good idea, and a lot of the substitutes for the function of eggs and milk are high on starch.

Also, make sure to check on common allergens like coconut. I don't know if the campers submit allergy requirements well ahead of time or not, but it's good to have alternatives.

For real vegan food, rather than just NAP (no animal products), a wide variety of foods at one meal is much more likely to be nutritious and lead to a feeling of well being than an analog of meat+3. That's why I suggested those restaurant menus.

Almost lifetime vegetarian here. I feel REALLY blah when I eat red meat. Not all starches are made the same. Whole grains are really full of protein and vitamins and fiber. A low fiber, high fat diet can make you feel "blah" if that's what you want to call a stodgy digestive system. Not all fibers are created the same either. Wheat bran is a rough fiber as are many greens. They can also upset the tummy. Oat bran and sweet potatoes, on the other hand, are soft fibers which can heal a touchy tummy. Dairy is a common digestive irritant, so not having that is also great for some people's digestive systems, if they are like that. However, some folks are sensitive to soy and glutens, so they may feel icky if they get a lot of that kind of food.

Some people may just eat a lot of sugar and refined starches when they go vegan, but that kind of eating isn't healthy by anyone's definition so I wouldn't worry about vegans eating too many empty starches if they know what they are doing. Refined starches flood your system with sugar which is not great for mood or brain, but fiber mixed in with other nutrients causes the body to slowly absorb the carbs. Vegans do eat more and more often, but that's because vegan food is easier to digest so doesn't sit in the colon as long.

If you've never eaten a healthy diet, you may not even know what a fog you are living under. Also, many people eat a lot of bad stuff precisely to stay in that fog, since their life is depressing. That's why you crave sweets and that's why when alcoholics go off of alcohol they often turn to caffeine and sweets to help modulate their mood. I used to work with an AA group when I was at the Y and we were amazed at the amount of sugar and caffeine they had at meetings, but the facilitator said, "One step at a time . . . " Lack of daily exercise and sunshine also puts you in a fog.

I seriously doubt John's daughter is going to have a problem at a camp. The biggest issue will be selling new foods to kids. Vegan versions of familiar foods are probably best to start, with some funkier options introduced slowly. Fake meats are quick, easy and transitional, although expensive so I'm not sure how that is going to figure in. You can make bulk seitan though. I'm not a huge fan as I find a lot of gluten upsets my stomach. I have the same issue with dairy, I wouldn't say I am lactose intolerant or gluten allergic, but I do need to limit both items in my diet.

I'm a huge believer in hot whole grain cereals every day, but I grew up with them. One might try to find ways to introduce them to kids. That's the biggest challenge with kids, they have grown up in most cases eating such bland, fiber-less, sweet tasting foods that their palette's have become accustomed to that kind of thing. A palette acquired for a reason by our mass food production system. Hard to change over once you've had it re-enforced in childhood. If that kind of person switches to vegan, yes they are going to have a heck of a time adjusting and will probably fill up on empty carbs.

I'm guessing all camps accommodate allergies and dietary needs except for day camps where you bring your own lunch. (breakfast and dinner at home) She already does that all week as mentioned on another post. Makes gluten-free, nut-free, allergy options.

I don't think one day a week will 'rock their gut'. I only asked about serving style as most have breakfast bars and lunch/dinner salad bars. Often one or two daily 'sheet pan' or steam pan hot meals in rotation. Family style or cafeteria style. How many choices are expected.

Most probably eat better at camp than at home. Forcing them out of a comfort zone once week is a pretty great life long lesson/education. Especially introducing some plant based sprouted grains and seeds. Whole fresh foods.

I make a good veggie sprouted grain burger but prefer a meat-less baked small ball 'meatballs' with spinach and grain, mushroom...falafel-ish with fresh salads and humus cream in lettuce wraps...roasted root veggies Korma....meat-less meals that don't replace the usual comforts like veggie hot dogs.

I'd save those replacement foods for pizza night, burger/dog night so those needing vegan, gluten free, can have a similar meal like their friends.

Lpink, that's exactly what I meant though you explained it much better. Not to rely heavily on refined starches like pasta and bread which can make you feel blah. Go with a wide variety of whole grains, pulses, and vegetables, rather than trying to make faux meat dishes.

It's important for those who don't regularly cook vegetarian let alone vegan foods to keep in mind that unrefined plant based protein sources are 4-15% protein, and most of those do not have a complete spectrum of amino acids, which is one of the reasons that variety is essential. The 15% is found in some kinds of beans and grains, but not others.

For one day per week, a perfect diet isn't essential, but heartier food than toast or rice is called for.

The body combines proteins throughout the day it has been found. Used to be that the advice was to combine different plant proteins in the same dish, but now has been found to be less necessary. Still need to eat a wide variety, particularly pulses plus grains as they compliment each other. So many more varieties out there now than when I started eating vegetarian. However, not sure about the kid friendly aspect, particularly if you didn't grow up eating them. My mother and her family were Seventh Day Adventists, devotees of Adelle Davis and her emphasis on whole grains, and also big vegetable gardeners so I grew up eating whole foods before it was fashionable. Many people rely on "fake meats" as they are making the transition to a more plant-based diet because it allows them to simulate familiar meat-based meals. Hard to get kids to develop a taste for unfamiliar foods in a camp setting. I know because I used to run a camp that had a nutrition program for kids from the inner city, and it was not easy. Of course these kids were not going to camp with the idea that their diet would either be catered to or changed. So we tried to steer a middle ground. One of the best things was involving kids in food preparation through afternoon activities and overnight cookouts. We also had themed pot luck luncheons where campers fixed all the food.

Here are a few of my vegan star dishes.

Cumin scented potatoes from Epicurious

Yield:Serves 6

Ingredients

1. • 1
     1/2 pounds russet or Yukon Gold potatoes, peeled, cut into 1/2-inch
     cubes, and submerged in a bowl of cold water to prevent browning (Note: you don't have to peel, you don't necessarily have to submerge in water either, depends on how long you expect the potatoes to sit around peeled and cut)

• 2 tablespoons canola oil
• 1 tablespoon cumin seeds
• 1 small red onion, cut in half lengthwise and then into 1/2-inch cubes
• 1 teaspoon ground turmeric
• 2 teaspoons coarse kosher or sea salt
• 1 teaspoon cayenne (ground red pepper)
• 1 medium-size tomato, cored and cut into 1-inch cubes
• 2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh cilantro leaves and tender stems

Preparation

1. 1. Drain the potatoes and pat them dry.
2. Heat the oil in a medium-size
   saucepan over medium-high heat. Add the cumin seeds and cook until they
   sizzle, turn reddish brown, and are fragrant, 5 to 10 seconds. Add the
   potatoes, onion, and turmeric, and stir-fry until the potatoes and onion
   are lightly browned around the edges, 4 to 6 minutes.
3. Sprinkle in the salt and cayenne,
   and stir once or twice. Pour in 1 cup water and bring to a boil. Reduce
   the heat to medium-low, cover the pan, and cook, stirring occasionally,
   until the potatoes are almost fall-apart tender, 18 to 20 minutes.
4. Stir in the tomato and cilantro,
   and cover the pan. Simmer, stirring occasionally, until the tomato is
   warmed through, about 2 minutes. Then serve.

Tip: For a thicker sauce, coarsely mash some of the potato cubes.

Notes: you can leave out the cilantro and serve a cilantro pesto on the side if you're worried about folks not liking the cilantro taste. Also, you can add peas at the end for more color and nutrition, and also seitan or tofu-kan. Might even be good with kidney beans, although I have never done that, but I have added them to other curries.

Vegan Pot pie (Note, this could be made with a regular vegan pie crust topping for a crowd, or with the puff pastry but that probably would be expensive. Could also use biscuit dough.)

Ingredients

• 1 Tbsp olive oil
  
• 1 Onion
• 1 tsp Crushed Garlic
• 1 tsp Dried Basil
• 1 Tbsp Soy Sauce
• 2 Packs (18oz/500g) Button Mushrooms (sliced)
• 8 Baby Zucchinis (sliced)
• 1/2 bag (~9oz/250g) Frozen Peas

For the Cashew Cheese Sauce:

• 1 cup (150g) Cashew Nuts
• 1/4 cup (15g) nutritional yeast
  
• 1/2 tsp Crushed Garlic
• 1 Tbsp Lemon Juice
• 1/4 tsp Sea Salt
• 1/4 tsp Black Pepper
• 7 Tbsp Water

For the Pie Crust:

• 1 Sheet Vegan Puff Pastry
• Melted Vegan Butter (for brushing)

Instructions

1. Chop
   the onion and add to a pot with the olive oil and crushed garlic. Sauté
   together until onions are slightly softened and then add in the dried
   basil and soy sauce.
2. Add in the sliced mushrooms, zucchini and
   peas and sauté together for a minute or so. Then cover the pot and allow
   to simmer together for a few minutes. When the vegetables become saucy
   due to mushrooms releasing their water, remove the lid and allow to cook
   off until only a little water remains.
3. Add the cashews,
   nutritional yeast, garlic, lemon juice, sea salt, black pepper and water
   to the jug of a blender and blend until smooth. If your blender is less
   powerful, start with the liquid ingredients (water and lemon juice) and
   then add the dry ingredients on top of those so it blends easier.
4. When your veggies are soft and cooked and only a small amount of water remains, stir in the cashew cheese sauce.
5. Preheat the oven to 390°F (200°C).
6. Spread
   your puff pastry sheet out on a counter. Take your pie dish and turn it
   upside down on top of the pastry. If the pastry sheet is bigger than
   your pie dish, then you’re good to go. If not, then roll out the pastry
   with a rolling pin until it’s wide enough so that it goes all the way
   around your pie dish, with a little room to spare. Cut the dough around
   the edges of the pie dish, so you have a nice big round big enough to
   fit your pie dish, with extra to spare so you can fold it along the
   sides.
7. Let your cheesy veggie mix cool a bit before placing into your pie dish and smoothing down with the back of a spoon.
8. Place
   the puff pastry over the top of the veggies and push the pastry into
   the sides of the dish folding the pastry along the edges.
9. Brush
   the top of the pastry with melted vegan butter and cut a vertical line
   in the center of the pastry a couple of inches long (as pictured above).
10. Place the pie into the oven and bake for 25 mins until golden brown and crispy on top.

Notes

*Must be puff pastry and not phyllo pastry.

*Our
pie dish is 8″ round at the base widening to 9″ round at the top and 2″
deep. I think any similar sized 8″ or 9″ round dish would work great
here, but it does need to be fairly deep.
Nutrition

• Serving Size: 1 Slice (of 8)
• Calories: 305
• Sugar: 4.5g
• Sodium: 224mg
• Fat: 19.7g
• Saturated Fat: 3.1g
• Carbohydrates: 24.9g
• Fiber: 3.5g
• Protein: 9.8g

Find it online: https://lovingitvegan.com/vegan-pot-pie/

The ideas and advice here is awesome. DD has been in Berkeley so I haven't had chance to talk with her but SWMBO was favored with a phone call. She reports that DD is excited about vegan Mondays and all the interesting things she can do. Apparently DD is working on a menu and doesn't plan to rely on ersatz meats. I imagine there will be test cooking going on in the next couple months. Wow, summer is not that far away.

Service style - they usually have a serving counter with camp staff doing the portioning from hotel pans, with other items self-served from a steam table. The former camp (that burned down) did family style service, but that doesn't work at the current camp (not sure why).

That said, I used to get bulk dried TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein) at the Food CoOp, and use it for mock chicken soup and other stews and pasta dishes. She might want to design her meals around ethnic foods, providing a cultural enrichment as well.

This link at Rancho Gordo has a bunch of vegetarian recipes. You could use other beans but the ones from Rancho Gordo are the best!

https://www.ranchogordo.com/blogs/recipes/tagged/vegetarian

I think my vegan nutrition rant was OT. The main issue I think your daughter (coming from an adventurous foodie family) is going to have is understanding how finicky the kids are going to be with regards to trying new and unfamiliar foods. Not all of course, and there will be notable exceptions. But I have worked in camps since 1982, with kids of all races and socio-economic backgrounds, and it is generally a fine art when it comes to feeding kids in general, let alone introducing them to new foods. As I mentioned before, getting them involved in the process is very helpful, as is starting with the tried and true and familiar and then branching out. The best you will get from some kids is tolerance and jokes. This is difficult for a foodie to understand, the mind of a non foodie, someone who says "I don't do bits" as I once heard. Or "nothing green!" I once was part of a taste test with kids between real maple syrup and Mrs. Butterworth, and the tv executive who grew up on real maple was sure it would win hands down, but it lost hands down with all three kids. Fine foods are an acquired taste. Also, there are kids who are naturally picky. My brother was one. He has very bad allergies, including mold and yeast. So anything fermented sets him off. He can't do anything with vinegar. He is also allergic to soy. He has always liked his foods very plain as a result. And then there are the nut allergy kids. I know someone who died from anaphylactic shock from eating something that just had trace peanut oil in it, so I am very sensitive to that.

So given what I just wrote in my previous post, here is what I would advise. Feature some of the kinds of foods that everyone, vegan or not, would be well advised to incorporate into their diets. Introduce them in familiar ways.

For breakfast: I would feature a hot whole grain cereal, which many kids have never had. I'd start with oatmeal (the steel cut kind) and branch out from there. Cornmeal mush or fried hush puppies, with syrup or brown sugar on them taste just like Capt. Crunch. I love cracked wheat or bulghur, but I am weird. These cereals taste good with dried fruits, but all kids will not want that so I would feature those on the side, things like prunes, raisins, apricots. Along with nuts and maybe some sesame sticks, for a "make your own trail mix" option. Then an assortment of cold cereals with soy or nut milks, and some soft fresh fruits to go with them, like bananas, peaches, berries. Also toast with assorted nut butters, jams and vegan marg. Those could be at the table on trays for easy set up and clear up. You could throw in some options like pancakes and waffles and maybe french toast if there is a way to do it vegan, I have never done that. I have never liked the non dairy yogurts, but they might be an option. Not sure on the cost-effectiveness of that option. I'd also feature a vegetable hash, emphasis on introducing some new vegetables like parsnips or different colored carrots, etc in with the familair potatoes. Can add tofu sometimes. These hashes could be saved and used later as fillings for enchiladas, stuffed flatbread or lasagne. Brown rice pudding! Maybe some other kind of vegan pudding to be mixed with fruit.

Lunch: I would take my lead from the "Moosewood" restaurant and offer three plate specials: a soup, a sandwich and a salad. Two options for each. Familiar soups like tomato and familiar salads like potato, only maybe tarted up a bit with protein add ins. I make a great mexican potato salad with corn for example, to which black beans could easily be added. Find some kind of vegan mayo that you can splash on them so they at least appear white. Offer at least one non-vinegar dressed option and one non-nut one. Toasted nut butter and banana sandwiches for a treat. Fresh fruit for dessert, cut up like apples, pears and oranges.

For dinner, three entrees again. A plain salad for familiar territory. A plain vegetable, a more starchy one or a pilaf. And then some kind of protein thing. I'd do baked spaghetti or some other baked pasta, lasagne, enchiladas. This is where you are going to have your most trouble with the "I don't do bits" kids. Grilled vegetables might be an option for them, but hard to pull off in a camp kitchen. May be offer up some of the leftovers from other meals. This is where I might offer up a fake meat alternative, like tofu dogs or black bean burgers, fake chicken nuggets. I have found that pasta is usually a pretty safe bet. Even kids who don't like anything else can eat that plain. Same with potatoes. Neither one is totally devoid of nutrition, and it's just one day. Dessert could be crisps, bar cookies with fruit or frozen fruit pops. Those were a huge hit at our camp. Granola bars or chocolate dipped shortbread.

Vegan pie crust:

2 cups flour (can use all or part whole wheat PASTRY flour
2 tsp. salt
Mix these together

Put 4 TBLSP cold water into 1/2 cup of oil (I usually use organic canola) and stir until it forms bubbles throughout.

Pour liquid into flour and stir until combined. Separate the dough into two piles. This dough must be rolled out between two sheets of wax paper. Makes enough for two one-crust pies or one two-crust pie. This crust is short, not flaky. I guess for flaky you would have to use a different approach, with something like crisco in a lard or butter type recipe. That's not what this is.

Quick Carrot Bisque

1 1/2 cups carrots (obviously has to be scaled WAY UP for a large group)
1 cup vegetable broth
1/2 cups celery (can leave out or sub other vegetable. Yellow summer squash would be fab.)
2 TBLSP chopped onion or 2 tsp. dried onions
2 bay leaves
1/2 cup soy milk (or some other type of vegan milk)
2 TBLSP of marg.
1 TBLSP fresh basil or 1 tsp. dried
Ground pepper to taste and a dash of tabasco

Boil carrots, celery, broth, onion and bay lvs. for 10 min. Add basil. Remove bay lvs and puree. Add milk, tabasco and pepper to taste. Can be reheated but not brought back to a boil.

Can sub tomatoes. Can add brown rice.

One thing I managed to get a picky friend to eat was baked spaghetti with brown lentils. That was back before you could easily get the red ones. He could not believe it was vegetarian. You could also sub beef or chicken TVP for the lentils. There is fake parmesean cheese this could be topped with, or just bread crumbs mixed with evoo, which looks like parmesean cheese. Brown lentils are one of the most hated foods by non vegetarians. Ask me how I know . . .

Another good option is a mild chili, which can have or not some TVP in it.

I don't have L's camp experience and don't know the chicken nuggets only kids I often read about. The point about foods that appeal to those kinds of kids is important.

Re the taste test, I knew the outcome before I read it. It's the same as the Pepsi Challenge back when. If you put someone who isn't a trained taster into a blind taste of a bite of this vs. a bite of that, the sweeter one will win a large majority. With the Pepsi, the challenge doesn't take into consideration that all that sugariness isn't refreshing, so while people may prefer a sip of Pepsi to a sip of Coke, more of them prefer a glass of Coke to a glass of Pepsi. I'm sure the same is true of the syrups. A taste might latch on the sugar is the ooh, sweet, but at home, the maple-y-ness of good pure maple syrup is that sought after flavor. But then one also only uses a drizzle of maple, rather than that big flowing river of "pancake syrup" that they show in the ads. That much maple would not only be terribly expensive, it would be too strong.

L's suggested breakfast is an example of what I meant about the blahs. I know Americans often eat sugary breakfasts, but other than the add-on nuts and nutbutters, and the hypothetical wheat cereal which is less like eating pure sugar than oats, though less familiar to the kids, this all sounds like sugar, sugar and a topping of sugar to me. There's nothing wrong with any of it in particular, and a nice variety of foods presented, but after this kind of breakfast, even choosing the heartiest bits and all I'd want to do after is nap.

I don't know anything about how diabetic vegans manage. There's a good chance that there will be some diabetics or other folks who should eat low carb for their health visiting the camp, so it'll be important to make sure there's the right kind of food available for them too.

A big problem with a lot of vegan substitute foods like nut milks and cheeses and egg replacers is that they're very different nutritionally from what they're replacing. Also, while homemade nut milk is high in nutrients, even though different from the ones in milk, many of the commercial ones have terrible reputations. If they're just there for sticking stuff together, or as an accompaniment, like a splash of "milk" on cereal, fine, but a lot of people gravitate toward the familiarity and crowd out more nutritious foods by piling on that which looks familiar.

Back when I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian, people were shocked at the quantity of vegetables I ate. At that time, most vegetarians lived on grains and cheese. I know and eat with a lot of vegans now, and I'm the one who's shocked because a lot of them live on refined foods and sugars. That is why I hammer on the balanced nutrition. I've seen what a sugar/starch diet does to them. Even though this is one day per week, if not planned well, it could be a bad day. It would be much better if it were one meal every day than three meals all on one day. Then it wouldn't really matter what the kids ate for that one animal free meal.

Pllog, she is doing ONE day of vegan foods. In a food service kitchen for a large group. I would suggest that making nut milk might be a fun activity to do with kids. That along with maybe some kind of vegan yogurt although I have no experience with that. I imagine the kids might not like it plain. Kids love to bake bread, although bread is a "treat" kind of food because it is made with refined grain. I think your fear of whole grain starches and whole fruits (with both sugar and fiber), is unfounded. Particularly when eaten in moderation. For ONE DAY. This is just exposure to vegan foods, not a whole life makeover. That said, I would caution against too much fruit juice, one or two small servings (4-6 oz.) a day should be the limit. I water down fruit juice when serving to kids, and if they want more to drink I offer water.

Also, in case there was some confusion, I am not suggesting vegan kids eat ALL of my suggestions at every meal. Cooked whole grain cereal would be best for breakfast, but if the kids won't eat it, the more familiar cold varieties might have to do. That's why I suggested serving a whole grain cereal every breakfast, but to be prepared with other options if the kids won't eat it. Heck you could offer a bowl of dahl for every breakfast too, but again, doubtful you will have many takers but might not be a bad idea, many people throughout the world start the day with some kind of bean gruel or spread. Whole grain versions of familiar foods are a given but only a starting point. You can also boost protein in home made foods by adding bean flours such as soy or garbanzo bean flour, and cracked soy granules (soy grits) to whole grains, such as rice and wheat. I have several recipes featuring those foods if your daughter would like. Other common foods that vegans eat to boost protein are miso and tempeh. I'm assuming those would be offered for many of the meals.

Just to give you an example of how resistant some of the kids might be to unfamiliar foods, as part of our nutrition program at one of my camps, we only offered spreads and jams that were made of 100% fruit. They were still concentrated sweets, so this change was minor, minor, minor. The kids complained about it and begged us to serve grape jelly. Many would not touch the other stuff after trying it once. And it was Cascadian Farms high end product.

But hey, if you want to go full on vegan nutrition, what most of the world eats for breakfast is some kind of whole grain gruel, maybe mixed with beans and scooped up with some flatbread like a tortilla, chapatti or injera bread. Maybe a pickled condiment to spice it up. Lunch is something similar. A piece of fruit for a snack. For dinner, more of the same maybe made into a stew or soup, with a nice salad and some other vegetable side dish like aloo gobi, or maybe a fried bean croquette or fritter.

Two great "old school" books on vegan nutrition are "Diet for a Small Planet" by Frances Moore Lappe, and "Laurel's Kitchen" by Carol Flinders and Laurel Robertson. Both out of print but easy to find. Ms. Lappe started the whole push for a less meat-centric diet and her book contains an extensive treatise on amino acids and combining whole foods to assure one eats a "complete protein" although that whole idea has been somewhat discredited because the body is synthesizing proteins all the time so not necessarily critical to eat a complete protein in every dish or every meal, just throughout the day and throughout your life. However, doing it in one meal is not difficult and is tasty if you are really, really concerned about it. Both books have a lot of low sugar, low fat dietary suggestions and recipes, with many menu ideas.

Other cookbooks with vegan recipes that are low refined sugar and low fat are by Dean Ornish and Robert McDougall. Both emphasize high fiber and low fat. One does not need to go "all in" to their philosophies to benefit from including some whole foods recipes into their meals. Even if the kids come from low carb families, they will not have their bodies destroyed by eating some vegan food once a week, any more than a vegetarian is going to be destroyed by eating meat once and a while. But different people have different ideas and styles of needing doctrinal purity in their meals. Not me, I love eating and food way too much for that! I've been "odd person out" for too long as a vegetarian to think that going for a day eating in a style that isn't your preferred one is going to hurt you. Done it all my life living with meat, sugar and refined carb lovers.

I bet she already has a dozen ideas. She has been working that kitchen a few years now. And planning/serving daily vegetarian options. Might even be a Monday relief eventually to not have so many various dietary needs. Even a sheet pan meal using a rice/non-wheat pasta will satisfy both gluten-free and vegan. More options these days.

It will be interesting to see what she comes up with.

Its possible/likely some of these kids at home have pizza night, burger night, Mac-n-cheese night. Chips, candy bars, soda. (bottled dressings). Purchased by parents.

I see it as a day to try and make a difference. Taste new things. Picky kids will not starve.

A pretty good guess she knows these kids. Not necessarily one on one personally but as a heap/crowd. Knows what to expect...a loose small percentage of allergies, etc.

The kitchen staff are teens. Not great knife skills. That means being very busy overseeing prep and teaching. Not a great amount of time to focus on nutritional calculations and how certain foods digest more efficiently with each other.

It's Berkley kids. Probably some healthy fresh whole food parents, some TraderJoe parents, junk food pop tart parents. Not the small southern town where I grew up. Even so, I ate better at camp in the 70's than at home*. A bit different attending an athletic camp being up early and breakfast was DIY. Cereals, packaged cream of wheat and instant oatmeal. Lost of fresh fruit and yogurt and hard boiled eggs. No meats. 3-4 hours swim practice, break, salad bar light lunch, grains (PB&honey). Bread. Afternoon grind Field hockey...3 pit-bull coaches from Scotland. High carb early dinner. Meat fest. Pizza fest. Active kids burn a ton of calories.

*We ate well at home. Very few processed foods and zero junk. Just not as much variety at each meal. Like a salad bar.

I thought the family camp had parent age people as well as kids?

I'm not as worried about giving little kids so many sugary choices. Kids seem to be built to burn sugar.

I was in charge of catering "breakfasts" for pre-event lecture groups. We had practically no money, and started with bagels, cream cheese, melon slices and coffee/tea service. Many attendees were very unhappy, though they could have eaten at home--this wasn't a camp--because of the sugar. We took up a collection to buy food service peeled boiled eggs to give them, and some sliced veg for the bagels and they were happy. For my own self, the fat of the cream cheese is an offset to the starch of the bagel.

I eat oats as a treat. They're sweet. Oats and rice are the candy of the grain world.

I get it about kids not liking no-sugar added preserves when they're used to jelly, and the jelly might encourage them to eat the nut butters.

I do understand that you didn't mean everyone should eat everything. I was trying to say it sounded like a good variety for a camp mess hall.

OTOH, I couldn't eat oatmeal with dried fruit and expect to function. Nor could my breakfast lecture divas.

My idea of balanced is to look at beans, seeds and nuts. There's variation a plenty, but all have a balance of protein, carbs and fats. A meal should have similar proportions. It's harder with vegan because there aren't any high protein sources like eggwhites to offset low protein sources. Getting plenty of carbs and fats isn't an issue, but a high protein grain, or a muesli with oats and a lot of seeds and nuts, is better than oatmeal, which has a quarter of the protein of barley.

So, as I'm feeling better today, and therefore thinking more concretely, how about adding refried beans to the breakfast menu? Maybe with chilaquiles? I don't know how that would go over with picky camp kids, but the parents might like it and it's much more substantial than oatmeal with dried fruit.

Right now, tentative vegan Monday lunch includes:

Baguette; Pickled carrot & daikon; bbq seitan; Seared tofu; Toppings including vegan mayo, cilantro, cucumber, jalapeño; Spring rolls; Rice noodle salad; salad bar with spring mix & toppings & dressings; fruit bowl; sliced bread, sun butter, jam; soy and almond milks; other beverages.

But she is still trying other things and nothing is set yet.

Berkeley families are likely to have eaten pan-Asian foods. It's probably a rare Berkeley kid who has no experience with tofu.

Well you don't have to sell me on barley gruel! I grew up with a grandmother who had a grain mill in her kitchen, I was eating gruel before gruel was cool! I have mild IBS and mild gluten sensitivity. I can eat some wheat but limit it. Also limit it because it is mostly served ground up and cooked, which destroys a lot of the nutrients in it. So barley is one of my "go to" grains along with whole oats. Both oats and barley have "sticky fiber" which is healing for IBS. So I eat barley pilafs and barley salads all the time, plus put it in soups. You also don't have to sell me on tofu, I eat it almost every day. There is so much you can do with soy, it is the protein source for so many in Asia and there are so many great ways to serve it. Smoothies, sauces, fried, grilled, baked, mashed up, cubed in salad, marinated, soy grits, edamame, cooked mashed soybeans, tempeh, miso, tamari, tvp, soy nuts . . . I'm probably leaving something out. But then you just might run into someone like my brother, who is allergic to soy. He loves the idea of soy but he has an irritation reaction when he eats it and will be clearing his throat of mucus for the rest of the day if he does. Same way with vinegar. I don't know if anyone in your group might be like that, good to find out. Same with nut allergies and wheat allergies. Always good to serve something without those things for those who have it. Same with fruits. I have a friend whose mouth burns whenever she eats strawberries and apples. I had never met anyone who had an apple allergy before. I thought she was making it up at first. But if your daughter knows that she won't have to deal with any of those kinds of issues, WHEW! She has passed one of the gauntlets to community food service!

Then there are the picky eaters. I have some very hard core vegetarian foodie friends who are still constantly frustrated by their kid's picky eating habits. The vinegar thing is one of their issues. I wish I liked quinoa but I don't like it, or buckwheat, and I am hardly picky. So there's that.

I learned to bake and cook following Edward Espe Brown "Tassajara Bread Book" and "Tassajara Cooking" plus "Laurel's Kitchen" cookbooks. Can't get any more Berkley than that! But even in both of those books, the authors talk about the switch to a plant-based, more whole foods lifestyle being a progression. So depends on where you want to start on the scale. Cooked whole grains are less nutritious than sprouted or raw grains, and the whole "cracking" process is designed to make them soft as fast as possible on a low heat so as to not destroy the B vitamins as much. Tofu is processed too. So by all means if you want to expose the families to hard-core vegan lifestyle choices, serve a grainy meusli type thing (watch the nuts) soaked in water and maybe with a little berry fruit on top if you aren't sensitive to that or allergic. People make that into a smoothy/pudding-ish type of thing usually. Or a grain gruel with dahl and a pickled condiment. Or stir-fried tempeh with some greens and a steaming cup of miso for those who aren't soy sensitive, or roasted barley tea for those who are. Gado-gado with congee is another option. There are unyeasted, sprouted breads and cracker type things you can make too. The broth soup bowls with whatever is good and fresh for the day thrown in. A stir-fry to top rice or soba noodles. That's how I eat at least once a day, if not twice. In fact, just last night as I was eating my tofu, dark greens, mixed raw vegetable salad with a few sunflowers thrown in on top with a roasted red pepper dressing, I was wondering how the kids at the camp would take to that. My husband and father are sensitive to peppers and my dad doesn't do broccoli, so they would never eat it. Salad bars are a great idea to avoid that issue with salads. Today I'll have the same thing only mixed with rice for lunch. I got hungry later in the evening and had some rye wasa crackers with spinach dip. Mine was over-the-counter stuff, but when I make it home made, I make it with soft tofu so it is vegan.

Lpink, the barley doesn't bother your gluten sensitivity? I love the stuff, barley mushroom soup is a favorite of mine, but the barley has gluten and so is off limits to Amanda. Too bad, she loves the stuff too. (sigh)

John, I just got this email today, vegan meal prep ideas, and I immediately thought of your DD. https://www.purewow.com/food/vegan-meal-prep-recipes?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Recipe&utm_campaign=34760&utm_content=Recipe_editorial

The chickpea flour frittatas looked good, as did the vegan sriracha meatballs, maybe there's something there that can be useful to her.

I think the baguette with lots of vegetables would make a perfectly acceptable "plant sandwich" for me, and if I were very picky, the nut butter with bread is something familiar, go with that PB&J childhood thing. Is everyone going to make their own spring rolls, choosing the fillings, or will the staff make them ahead of serving? Oh, I like that rice noodle/peanut butter salad that Jessica posted here, and it's also a favorite of my daughters, so the rice noodle salad sounds good too. Even as a definitely non-vegan, I could find plenty to eat on that menu.

Annie

I'm making that vegan burger tonight!

The mushroom and lentil one? That sounded really good to me, with some guacamole, although Elery says sriracha mayo would be better.

Annie

Yes, that one. It looked tasty. I'll report back.

I want to try those chickpea frittatas too! I have chickpea flour which I could use to make pakoras (which would be fab to serve for John's daughter) but I'm not much of a deep fryer. Tempura is one of my favorite things that I never get to eat, so I imagine pakoras would be even better.

I'm not gluten allergic. Folks I know who are gluten allergic get a reaction just by touching gluten foods to their lips, like the person I knew with the apple allergy. I just have mild gluten sensitivity, just like I have mild lactose intolerance. That's how I became such a lover of vegan milks and whole grain pilafs and the like. That's why I consider bread, one of my all time favorite foods, a "treat." I just can't eat it at every meal. Plus, I like the chewy high gluten kinds of breads. But for some reason, I think that not all gluten is made the same. MSG really makes me sick, that does bother even my mouth if I touch it. A couple of Doritos and I am done, too many more and I will get a stomach ache and a headache. Seitan and I don't get along either, that's one of the main kinds of "fake meat" that Adventists make, which they used to season with MSG. Anyway, if i don't pig out with gluten foods all day long, I'm OK.

Here's one of my favorite vegan pasta sauces. It was developed by my friend for her picky kids. She serves it over campanelle. I usually add broccoli but since not everyone loves broccoli, best to serve that on the side. Also might be good with cabbage or kale. It calls for tahini but is also good with peanut butter or cashew butter.

C's Tahini Sauce

1 can white beans (I usually use cannellini beans but you can use great northern or chick peas)

6 large garlic cloves pressed

2 TBLSP fresh ginger, grated

2 cups (one bunch) fresh cilantro (I have used parsley with a generous amount of ground corriander seed)

1 TBLSP Chinese toasted sesame oil

1 TBLSP hot chili oil

(If you don't have the hot chili oil, you can mix cayenne pepper in with 1 TBLSP of the sesame oil, start with 1/4 tsp.)

1/2 cup tahini or peanut butter (the fresher the better)

1/2 cup soy sauce or tamari

2 TBLSP sugar (I use brown)

3 TBLSP rice wine vinegar or rice wine

Put this all together in a food processor until it becomes creamy. Pour the sauce over steaming hot pasta and serve immediately. Garnish with chopped cucumbers, scallions and sesame seeds. You could also add a sauteed onion to the sauce, white, yellow or red.

I'd be interested in your report John. My guess is you will be underwhelmed. But I'm not a fan of lentil burgers. Here's one of my favorite lentil recipes, from the Mennonite "More With Less" cookbook .

Sweet and sour lentils

1 cup lentils (brown ones)

2 cups water

2 veg. bouillon cubes (I use "Better than Bouillon" paste, 2 tsp.)

1 bay leav

1 tsp. salt (I leave out when using salted bouillon)

Bring to a boil and simmer 20 min. or until lentils are soft but not mushy.

Add:

1/4 cup apple or pineapple juice (I use crushed pineapple)
1/4 cup cider vinegar
1/4 cup brown sugar (I use less)
dash of cloves
Sauteed onion and red or green pepper if desired. Can add carrots or even yellow summer squash or cabbage of some color, to make a colorful stew.

Heat until bubbly. Serve over rice. The sweet and sour is to taste really.

My daughter made the vegan mayo made with the water from a tin of chickpeas and tells me its really good.

I made the vegan frittatas for lunch since I had all the ingredients languishing in my fridge and pantry. They were underwhelming, as I sort of expected. I had to use parmesean cheese since I didn't have nutritional yeast. They were mushy, which is a problem with most vegetarian food. They were also bland, but with an odd hot bite from the jalepeno. If I made them again I would do oregano and cumin or basil and oregano plus sundried tomatoes and skip the hot peppers or somehow integrate them better so they don't stand out so much as the only flavoring. Or, I'd add potatoes for even more of a frittata vibe. They had potential, but I won't make them "as is" again.

My vegan loaf (which is tasty, but is a pain to make and I don't think would get any better scaled up) also fights the mushies. Baking it long enough is really important for drying it out. What really helps is getting a crisp crust. I bake it in shiny aluminum liberally sprayed with oil so the edges kind of fry. I've tried pan frying slices, but never got them really crispy. They may not be smooth enough when cut. I don't know if that frying the edges would work with the frittata.

IC, there are many web pages devoted to the use of chickpea liquid as egg replacers, especially in emulsions.

What's interesting about that is that chickpeas are about the lowest in protein as beans go (7% vs 15% for the highest such as black beans). They have more fat. It's the yolk that does the emulsification, right? But does the fat get into the goo? I don't know why this all works.

Speaking of chickpea flour makes me think of socca, which aren't particularly nutritious, but are delicious. ;)

Pls note I have NOT tried this specific recipe. But buticha is a standard addition to the vegan dishes at Ethiopian restaurants, and is very tasty. Most of the restaurant chefs use chickpea powder, not canned, and so the texture is more stiff than in this recipe - similar to stiff mashed deviled egg yolks, rather than runny hummus.

In fact, the first time we had this dish, we thought it actually was deviled egg yolks! My DH and I are confirmed carnivores, but Ethiopian/Eritrean vegetarian and vegan food can be outstanding - even better than Indian cuisines, IOHO. There are so many injera restaurants in our city, we don't bother to make this cuisine at home. It's easier and better - the spice mixtures are very complex - to just dine out for it, LOL.

http://www.amyscookingadventures.com/2019/01/ethiopian-hummus-buticha.html

I'm definitely going to have to try the Ethiopian collards, finally a way to use up the nigella seeds I have. If you took out the meat dishes you'd totally have an Ethiopian vegan feast from that link. Some of the best vegetarian food I have ever had has been at an Ethiopian restaurant in DC.

I tried the mushroom lentil burger linked above.

Its is pretty easy to make, if you have a food processor, and the ingredients all make sense.

After forming and chilling, the patties cook nicely too. You have to be a little delicate when flipping, and using a bit more oil helps, but the patties brown nicely and hold their shape. For the most burger like appearance, you probably want to use enough oil to quasi-deep fry the patty. I might try a very light coating of crumbs to mimic the crusty exterior of a seared burger

The flavor was okay, some sort of meatiness, some depth, I liked it okay. I will think of ways to improve or complexify it - might try a little tomato powder or paste, mushroom powder, a little soy sauce, maybe some smoked tofu.

The texture was a weak point, or specifically the lack of resistance when bit into. Even a rare beef burger has a little bit of connective feel and requires just a bit of toothy tearing. This vegan burger could be eaten by an infant or a 95 year old with no teeth and that's a problem, unless you're toothless.

What do you think I could do to increase the resistance to bite? Any way to use gluten or a gluten proxy like xantham gum? Or maybe - just throwing out weird ideas here - a sticky grain like black rice, maybe pulverize it in the food processor so you don't have individual rice kernels but keep the gluey effect?

My favorite vegan burgers had short grain rice in them, which did help the texture, but I've never met one that didn't have some mushiness. The best repair is crisp leaf iceberg lettuce, a big thick snappy slice of tomato on the other side, and some crunchy pickles. Also, never ever a brioche bun or any other soft puff. Well toasted whole wheat is good.

Mushroom and lentil just sounds....well......mushy and unpleasant. Don't you need something beany and nutty for texture?

I don't think vegetarian food is mushy and we eat a lot of it but I don't know anything about vegan cooking.

It wasn't "too" mushy. and I think that aspect can be further adjusted by how much you cook the mushrooms and lentils before forming the patties, because the patties are merely seared. I am more troubled by the lack of resistance to tearing off a bite, which isn't a texture thing, rather a lack of internal connectivity. [Analogy: a "patty" of pebbles would not be mushy, but would offer no resistance to tearing off a bite.]

I did some reading about the Impossible Burger. It seems to use various proteins (wheat, potato, etc), and a plant-derived yeast-grown hemeglobin (blood substitute). Interesting. I've had an Impossible Burger; it was okay, about as good as a McDonald's patty.

Since we're on Burgers for a moment (and I know the thread is on vegan..):

I am used to my hamburger having most of 'the works'; mustard, pickles, onion and lettuce and possibly mayo & catsup. I grill outside and transfer the burgers on a plate. One night I loaded up my bun and took a nice tasty bite And then realized that the grilled burger was still on the transfer plate!! Vegan if one leaves out the mayo as well. Not very healthy but it tasted fine. I suppose one could throw almost any mild thing in there instead of that burger to add value.

I have made a lot of "vegetarian patties" in my day and there's no way you're going to get something non mushy out of mushy ingredients. Beans are mushy, make them into sauces or spreads where the mushiness is a plus. The best bean patties are deep fried like falafel, which has a crispy outside and a mushy spicy inside. They're small so the outside to inside ratio is good. If I want a "burger" or meat substitute in texture, I buy something commercial made out of soy or gluten. You can make your own TVP or seitan too. There are a variety of ways to get "chewy" tofu too, which involve drying out in the oven and frying, and sometimes freezing and then squeezing out more water. That's how I make my tofu sloppy joes, I freeze and then thaw the tofu and squeeze out the water. Another "juicy" alternative to a bean patty is a grilled portabella mushroom, which has zero protein but can be part of a larger meal. I don't do portabella sandwiches for that reason, too devoid of nutrition, but I do use them for a low fat base for fillings.

This recipes looks like it would be more toothsome!

https://minimalistbaker.com/easy-grillable-veggie-burgers/

IC, that looks really good! I've bookmarked it.

So, I've been thinking about this all day. I've met crumbly or mushy pure beef hamburgers. I was thinking that the crust was important for the tooth, People on TV talk about disliking "meatball-like" hamburgers and I never really understood it, unless it was full of herbs and parm. I'm thinking it might be the texture. How to get a hamburger patty like burger of beef? Squish. Not too much! But squish. Squeeze out air and let the proteins and fats frayed by the grinding stick back together. That's something this bloggist does with her ingredients as well. And she does go for protein and fat content. This isn't a cereal burger. I was interested to see she also uses brown rice, which was also featured in the most toothsome one I've eaten. The point of this recipe is to hold together with handling and grilling. I hope it also serves John's purpose.

I'm also going to try tofu or gluten. Maybe I can find tempeh too.

It was a few years ago when we discussed vegan/vegetarian type burgers here. I wanted to make an option so those at a bbq did not need to stop and purchase a packaged variety and/or a bland unseasoned container of tofu. Most often they just end up eating my sides and salads that are abundant and offer plenty of food.

My issue with the dietary challenge is my friends and family are all the categories. Vegan, vegetarian, gluten-free, no dairy, no nightshade, type 1 diabetic. The few things I have perfected cover that. Fresh spring rolls, spring roll maki sushi, sprouted mixed grain salads w/ lots of veg. Roasted roots/veg. Fresh pickles, Soups. Lots of soups. Corn cakes, tamales, arepa. And the veggie balls. Sometimes sliders but never big burgers. Most just use big lettuce leaf instead of any bun. All my sides/toppings are a salad-bar style offering. Pick and choose.

All my sauces, condiments, dipping sauces and dressings are vegan. gluten-free. dairy-free. No need to label and explain.

So different at home without guests when we are all food all times. Mostly 80% fresh whole, some charcuterie, and lots of fishes and meats 10%. Grains seeds nuts. Minimal fruit. 5%.

No real plan or dietary issues for us, just personal dietary choices. I do like to please, and respect the others. Except when my 6yr old niece announced she was vegan while I was cooking for 20 at my in-laws. I handed her a carrot and said she will have plenty to eat but no warm brownie/ice cream for you! (she decided that her vegan diet would start the following week, lol)

Back to the vegan burgers/sliders/balls. We have always loved falafel. So, using that as a starting point I looked at dozens of recipes for vegan burgers. The one above looks good and the comment section reflects that. Add that to the NYTimes one and a good falafel recipe and that is as about my recipe. (I slow roast my veggies and tofu). I have a stocked spice rack and pantry. Dried mushrooms, shallots or onion, grated beet, spices/herbs, the soaked mushroom liquid gets the nuts and seeds to soak. Key is a cuisinart for mincing as John Liu discovered. My recipe has way too many ingredients to post but will write it down next session. I like to keep packages in the freezer. Especially for the up-coming bbq season. So that will be very soon. (DH has been begging me to start writing down recipes)

NYT recipe is not pure vegan but some of the methods are good.

Chickpea flour, corn flour, (not starch), masa and repa, are a few that can provide some 'glue'.

This is an old pic since they don't have the miso glaze just out of the oven like I do now, but so crispy baked in the oven. I've made sliders but falafel size covers an appetizer or 2-3 in a lettuce wrap. Meat eaters love them just dipped in hummus.

John, did I miss it or is seitan on your list? A lot of people are anti-gluten for non-allergic/sensitive reasons, but seitan grilled with soy sauce or similar makes an excellent burger type sandwich, with tooth and chew and flavor. It doesn't look like a burger, but it eats well. :)

Very late to the thread, but it was fascinating to read all the diversion. I cook vegetarian dishes pretty frequently as well. The initial plan for a tofu banh mi sounds good -- the local restos around here do it fried, which helps with the texture.

Another dinner alternative is tofu kara age -- like nuggets but the flavorings help hide the non-chicken nature of the frozen/dried/squeezed tofu (or simply firm tofu).

I noticed the comment about Berkeley families -- you probably are pretty safe with Indian foods as well -- biryani, the aforementioned aloo gobi, channa masala, veg jalfrezi/curry, etc. Or Thai. Just keep it on the milder side.

Seitan - that's a new one for me but DD plans to use it.

Yes, it being Berkeley families does help.

Seitan is a new (50 years) name for a many hundreds of years old food which you may have heard/eaten by another name. It's very common in China. In Asia, monks would develop and knead wheat and wash the dough throughout the process, so the starch was washed away and the protein remained. Although the "complete protein" in one meal idea has been pretty well set aside, seitan is usually made with soy sauce which provides the missing amino acids. It also makes it taste really good. It's the most meat-like meat substitute I've had, including TVP. My brain didn't go there because one doesn't usually see it as a burger. In a bun with burger trimmings, however, it's very good. But it's wheat gluten and there are people who have real issues with that, and there are even more who think they do, which is much the same thing. :)

I'm reading some recipes for making seitan, and it seems to me the main ingredients are vital wheat gluten and nutritional yeast, with everything else being basically flavoring. So I may try simply adding gluten to the vegan burger mix?

Really? I'm guessing it must be millenials. If you're not making the seitan from wheatberries, why not buy basic seitan rather than making it (this is an if you aren't Annie and grow it in your backyard question)? Maybe it's the nutritional yeast. If you're vegan you absolutely must use supplements for B12 and nutritional yeast is a good and tasty way to do it. I don't know if they put anything like that in commercial seitan. The ones I've seen the ingredients on do have soy sauce (which completes the amino acids) but if there's nutritional yeast it's not enough to disclose.

I don't know if seitan will help a mixed burger but it's certainly worth the try.

I wonder if you could use a combination of sticky seeds/beans and the gluten to make a binder for the burgers that would help the texture? Things like chia and garbanzo bean goo. I.e., egg subs.

I'll look forward to hearing about your experiments.

If you want a lot of "internal connectivity" then you're talking seitan. Gluten gives "internal connectivity' to bread . . .

This recipe sounds interesting - tvp from soy and seitan wheat gluten plus beans and rice complimentary protein, a vegan trifecta! https://fullofplants.com/high-protein-vegan-burgers/

That looks good! He probably should have given his product packaging. Some commenters had trouble with a very wet mix. I'm guessing those looking for exact recipes are not necessarily intuitive cooks. And lots of steps involved. But the trifecta is a win-win.

This fella seems really good at what he does and seems healthy, HERE ,He does all the replacements that is a bit of a yawn for me. But I always learn something and he does use lots of spices instead of the usual salt lick soy sauce soaks in the packaged stuff.

We don't have any close friends vegan or vegetarian, just some family members, so I'm not much help. Great vegan restaurants here but I order soup and salads and veggie 2 bite balls to share. Can't commit to a big burger. Most of our larger gatherings with secondary friends, or a friend will bring a guest, I make so many vegan choices in salads I don't play with the meat replacements.

So this is an environmental issue and not a 'lets make some vegan kids' ? . The vegan kids at work just out of college are so unhealthy eating the packaged junk not having much cooking experience.

Is she set and limited to the one supplier? Maybe a few products grown somewhat locally, PNWest...a good educational lesson?. I buy from Palouse,WA. Garbanzos and red winter wheat once a year. 5 pounds of each.

Good slicers, dicer, shredders, juicer, blender?

No way can they use mandolines like high end trained restaurant staff. And slow. My cuisinart discontinued back in the 80's has a side shoot. No need to empty the container as it just keeps going into a bowl.

Vegetarians and vegans might have already-cooked tvp and seitan in the fridge or freezer. Since such things are a bit of a pain to cook, I very often make a double batch and freeze some when I do make them.

The DoChua I'm guessing is for the baguettes via BanhMi. Why I asked about any shredding dicing tools. Daikon/carrot.

All the radish varieties have a sulfurous enzyme that at some point unknown can clear a room. I've made quick pickles for years and still can't find the moment or method that causes it. I mentioned carrots not peeled, even organic, will brown at about the 10-20 hour mark. I have taste tested at 2 hour, 6, 10, 12...24, 36. Black radish being the worst. I am adding lemon now but I rarely keep a quick pickle more than a few days. I prefer them fresh. 2-12hours. It took googling various key words like "why do my radish pickles stink?" to get just a few hits. Kenji from SeriousEats mentions it. Some have a small separate fridge for kraut, kimchi, and various ferments but I've not had that problem....maybe it is a raise in temp or room temp that increases the gasses quickly.

I've made a couple batches for a test for Sunday this weekend and have zero issues. One open container and one closed. Pic form last night...

Worth testing if prepping ahead and amount of time at room temp.

Kids LOVE a quick pickle. Highly recommend a Monday week one or two. Even thick cucumber coins and carrot, red onion, yellow beet, radish. I make a giant batch for 4th of July and big bbq's. A basic brine, but so much better than raw veg, not far from raw/fresh, but marinated. Could just be offered with the salad bar. Made a salad last night. The pickle is the dressing.