Help me choose some roses

5 years ago

last modified: 5 years ago

Hello Houzz rose experts!

I'm in a very fortunate position of expanding my existing rose garden in Flemington, Melbourne. Here's my Instagram to give you an idea of the rose-ituation: https://www.instagram.com/puns__n__roses/

The garden gets plenty of sunlight, particularly the front which is blasted with northern light. My current roses are:

Dame Elisabeth Murdoch

Just Joey

Augusta Luise

Valencia

Evelyn

Boscobel

Pope John Paul II

Dark Desire

Firefighter

Moonstone

Perfume Delight

Double Delight

Gemini

Plus 6x standards in the front garden: 3x Brass Band and 3x Gold Bunny.

I also had a Barbra Streisand, but she was a black spot magnet who infected all nearby roses so I yanked her up this morning. Such a shame, since her blooms were captivating.

Since investing in my rose garden I've fallen in love with David Austin roses and the shape of English roses. Initially when I set up my garden I thought hybrid teas were all the rage but have 'seen the light' and would dearly love to expand my collection away from these. Delbard roses are also an area into which I'm keen to venture.

The rose extension/available spaces are as follows:

1. Installing a raised bed (2m x 1m) against a big red brick wall (faces east, gets sun all day). Room for a central robust climber to cover the wall, plus a bush rose at either end of the bed.

2. I have space against a long wooden fence for 3 climbers (or at least, 3 roses that would benefit from some support).

3. A large bare spot next to a Black Tulip magnolia.

4. A bare border area with room for 3x a low-growing rose

5. In the front, I have two nude veranda pillars begging from some rose adornment.

6. The bare spot in the main garden bed left by Barbra Streisand spot

7. A side strip in the front garden where penstemons have burnt in the sunlight

- 3x Fearless roses?

My current rose ideas:

- Climbers to consider: 2x Nahemas for the front verandah, Lady of Shallot, Abraham Darby, Graham Thomas, Teasing Georgia, A Shropshire Lad, a Kordes 'Climing Max rose' such as Laguna

- Bush roses to consider: the Delbard Souvenir Emmanuel, Jude the Obscure, Olivia Austin, Princess Alexandra of Kent, one of the Delbard 'painters' collection (any tips?), Claire Austin, Sceptre D'Isle, Golden Celebration

- Border roses (x3 en masse) to consider: Bordure Camaieu, Munstead Wood

Please help me pick some roses! Which climber would grow the biggest and would suit the brick wall best (rather than the fence). Any experiences with Kordes 'climbing max' roses? Any David Austin's that are 'must haves' or definite 'to avoids'?

Featured Answer

nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

4 years ago

I agree with a lot of Kate's suggestions, but remember we're both in colder zones than you. I've seen fairly universal recommendations for Munstead Wood and I love that rose. It blooms in the heat and even maintains some of its purple color where other purple roses (particularly Austins) really pink out in the heat. Olivia Rose Austin is impressing me already in her second year and is looking to be one of the best Austins. In my climate both of those can be cutting roses, at least as far as any Austins can last more than a day cut, but Scepter'd Isle is better enjoyed on the bush. It's a loosely double self supporting shrub of over a meter for me and it probably has the potential to be much larger for you. It blooms all summer in the heat, so that definitely recommends it. Another Austin that does well for me and is supposed to do well in hot climates is Heritage, but the colors are pale and they don't cut well. Tranquillity is settling into its third year with a lot of promise but I can't say for sure yet. Sharifa Asma has the absolute best fragrance of any Austin for me, though Evelyn is also supposed to be in the running. If you have access to Elizabeth of Goshen, she has all the beauty of an Austin with much better hardiness than most purple roses and tolerance of shade too.

Not many people in the US grow the Delbard Painter series because they're not available, but I want to contribute an absolutely enthusiastic recommendation for Edgar Degas if you like stripes. He's probably in the top 5 of my favorites among over 1000 roses, and I've shared cuttings with several vendors in the US to keep him in circulation. He's wider than he is tall, at less than a meter tall but as much as two meters wide. He blooms all summer with captivating variations in blooms and enthusiastic robust clusters of blooms. He laughs off heat and blackspot in my garden and is robustly cane hardy (not an issue for you I realize). Even the dreaded Japanese Beetles prefer other roses to him, though they'll eat anything.

Here are some pictures to tempt you:

Among the other painters, I still have Henri Matisse and he pales in comparison to Edgar. Dark pink blooms now and then with modest variegation, but mostly a one-cane wonder. I have Alfred Sisely and he's a great rose too with orange-yellow-white stripes, but not the monster Edgar is. I grew Claude Monet for one shining moment, but he didn't survive our winters and isn't replaceable. I remember him fondly though.

Hope that helps!

Cynthia

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Comments (14)

HalloBlondie (zone5a) Ontario, Canada
5 years ago
I'm in a completely different climate than you, so I cannot give you a lot of suggestions. But I read about your black spot comment. Most Kordes roses are really healthy and bs resistant. Definitely worth looking into the varieties available in your area. I too also love Austin roses. Some of the Austin's are healthier than others. I do not have issues with rust, but bs & once in a while powdery mildew happens. The PM happened first year on Mary rose. Hoping it improves with each season. And another example, Carding Mill suffers the most for bs in my garden. But I tolerate it because I love it's blooms. Many of my austin's stay pretty healthy.
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia) thanked HalloBlondie (zone5a) Ontario, Canada
K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle)
5 years ago
Check out the roses that Fragrancenutter grows. I got the idea that I might want to grow the Massad rose Sonia Rykiel from this post: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3098474/sonia-rykiel-is-pumping-out-blooms-right-now#n=31

Abe Darby is prone to blackspot, but is still a wonderful rose and is well worth growing for his amazing blooms and great scent. Put him in a place where you can hid his bare legs if blackspot is a concern for you. Graham Thomas has the potential to be a huge tree-like bush in very sunny conditions. He may be more demure in Australia, but I doubt it. Golden Celebration has, to my nose, a far better scent.

You might want to look into some old tea roses or climbing tea noisettes for your brick wall and your sunny patch. I just suggest this because the famous book about these roses was written by some women from Australia, so maybe you will find that they like your climate. They get VERY big, so be warned. You can find info about them over on the Antique Rose Forum.
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia) thanked K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle)
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
5 years ago
KS is right. Tea Roses are wonderful and the Australian Tea Rose book is great.
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia) thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia)
Original Author
5 years ago
K S - thank you for such an insightful post. The image of Abe’s bare legs amused me enormously. Fragrancenutter was my original inspiration! She was the impetus behind Barbra, Augusta, Firefighter and Evelyn. Graham Thomas sounds a bit to large for my purposes. Do you have any experience with Julia Child, as a low hedge for example? I‘ll have to do some tea rose research, thanks for the tip.
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia)
Original Author
5 years ago
HalloBlondie: your insights are most useful, thank you. I hadn’t given much thought to Kordes roses but definitely will now.
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
5 years ago
I am in a high pressure black spot area. Hallo Blondie is right about the Kordes. Also Teasing Georgia and Lady of Shalott are very clean here.

Olivia is a great bloomer and also very clean. She gets huge here and I'm growing her like a climber.

Mustead Wood is great too and has a strong old rose fragrance.
SoFL Rose z10
5 years ago
sultry, do you spray? If not what roses do well for you no spray? And are they on fortuniana?
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
No, I don't spray fungicides or pesticides. I am not totally organic or anything but I try to do as little as possible with chemicals due to the frogs, caterpillars (butterflies) etc ,and having well water.

I only have a few roses on fortuniana. Most are grafted and some own root.

Raspberry Cream Twirl, Poseidon, Laguna, Don Juan are all OR and are monsters. Poseidon is literally a climber here. Quicksilver is good OR too.

All my Kordes generally do well.

I got 3 Fire Opals on clearance one year off Walmarts kill racks and they have done insanely well. Constant flowering & no black spot ever! They remind me of Belle Story ♡♡

Many Austins do well some even on their own roots like Tess and Lillian Austin. Some are slow on their OR though.

(grafted on DH) -Teasing GA, LOS, Pat Austin, SOF, Olivia, Boscobel, The Poet's Wife all are really clean. Many others are pretty good. CPM is clean but doesnt flower alot.

Distant Drums & Miracle on the Hudson are good grafted.

Then I have a bunch of OGRs that do well here too.
pippacovalent
5 years ago
Sarah, Kristine has a hedge of Julia Child and its beautiful.
seil zone 6b MI
5 years ago
I'm in a cold zone but high BS area and Julia Child is the rose I always recommend. She's the cleanest rose in my garden every season besides being lovely and fragrant!
_lazyworm
4 years ago
I live in Sydney.

My David Austin's Golden Celebration is a shocker. It is blooming now in the mid of winter, while NOTHING in summer. Magnet to blackspots. I did my research before, people said Lady of Shallot, Abraham Darby, Graham Thomas, Teasing Georgia, A Shropshire Lad are worse in terms of blackspots and diseases. It makes me think David Austin's roses are not ideal in Australia.

On the other hand, my Kordes roses are perfect and acting comparatively normal.
dublinbay z6 (KS)
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
The answers to some of the following selections will be a matter of your priorities. In my garden, they must have a good record on BS resistance, for instance. Some people rate fragrance of prime importance, etc.

If you are expanding into Austins, then Munstead Wood is your "must have." True--prickly devil and bush shape is nothing special, but it has the most beeeeuuuutiful dark blooms you've ever seen. For that, I overlook its "failings." Wouldn't be without this rose.

Olivia Austin and Princess Alexandra of Kent are both excellent Austin choices. What do you prefer colorwise? pale and receding (Olivia--I like her planted closer to the viewer) or bigger, more colorful pink blooms (Alexandra)? Olivia is especially good on BS resistance. Don't know about Alexandra.

Sceptre'd has charming somewhat lighter pink flowers, is floriferous, and is fairly good on BS resistance. Not a showstopper, however.

Golden Celebration has gorgeous golden blooms, but has BS problems.

I would definitely select Sceptre'd Isle. If I wanted more Austins, I probably consider Olivia for disease resistance and Princess Alexandra of Kent for its bigger and fuller medium pink blooms--more dramatic than Olivia.

Have fun making your selections!

Kate
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia) thanked dublinbay z6 (KS)
Sarah H (10a, Melbourne, Australia)
Original Author
4 years ago
Such useful advice, thanks Kate. You’ve inspired me to place a second barerooted order .

Help me choose some roses

nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

Comments (14)

HalloBlondie (zone5a) Ontario, Canada

K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle)

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