I hope you get a lot of feedback, Sara Ann. Multiflora will be new for me this spring with roses coming from Grace and Palatine for the first time. Most of my existing roses are own root, then Northland was only able to get Austins on Huey, so I started adding those and have been unable to tell the difference. I remember Strawchicago saying that Dr. H's long, thick taproot is better suited to heavy soil, and multiflora's many fine smaller roots like a fluffier soil. I plan to amend the planting holes for multiflora with a lot of compost, vermiculite, maybe pine fines - anything to keep it light and fluffy and a little on the acidic side, except for French roses that like it more alkaline. Grace, whose soil is hard dense clay, prefers multiflora.

I feel fortunate that here in tn , they all seem to be happy. The only difference is I allow own roots a year extra grace period before I start the clock of criticism! Lol dr. Huey does well . Multiflora catches up quickly. Fortuniana is so vigorous . Generally I prefer them grafted on something as I am impatient as can be . But I order tons own root anyway .

i haven’t had to try a rose on two different versions yet to tell you if one is better for a variety for me . I do remember being told to find Koko grafted for best results but then Judy in Ga said hers was own root and so vigorous.

ETA: I can’t believe I forgot but eden ... eden has been such a frustrating rose for me own root. I complain every spring about it . Finally this year I ordered one from palantine and I am expecting great things. Can’t wait to get it !

I ordered 23 for spring and all of them are own root.

Will definitely be a lesson in patience for me.

In researching Veilchenblau on here, I found that a Lot of posters were adamant that multiflora needed acidic soil for best color.

There were a couple threads about it around 2010

Only 2 of my entire order is own root.

My plan is in year 3-4 (TBD depending on growth) is to take stem cuttings. While it won't be a fair A/B test, my curiosity peaks on how the cane formation ~looks like visually~ vs. a Grafted.

I'm blessed that I can grow roses on all 3 root stocks offered here in the USA. I've learned that most of the time it depends on the variety of rose more then anything. I have a few varieties on all 3 root stocks, and if you don't know exactly what you are looking for, you can't tell. Perfect example; Let Freedom Ring. 2 on Dr huey, 2 on fortuniana and 1 on multiflora. If you don't know what you are looking for, you can't tell. Then I have Moonstone. 2 on fortuniana, 2 on Dr Huey and one on multiflora. The only ones I have left are the one's on fortuniana. The other 3 grew backwards and died.Then you can end up with weak bush's from any root stock. I have 4 Mavrik's. 2 on fortuniana and 2 on multiflora. 3 of the bush's are almost identical. One of the bush's on multiflora is about 1/2 the size of the other 3. All 4 bush's are 5 yrs old. It can be the same with own root roses also. I have a bed of 5 Knock Out, own root bush's in my front porch bed. 4 bush's are large, healthy bush's that are flat out beautiful. 1 bush is a 1 cane wonder (as in I "wonder" why it is still alive). This will be year 4 for this bed. If it doesn't produce new growth out of the ground this year, I will replace it with another KO. Some times roses can run you up the wall. They keep teaching me, "the best laid plans for mice and men".

For Florida, fortuniana sounds best to avoid nematode damage. For me here, they all seem to grow. I don't like the idea of grafted roses that much. I'm going for natural. I don't grow HT roses as a rule, so grafting isn't necessary. I like plants spreading. I'm hoping my roses have a long life. Own root are fun to grow from babies.

I think it's more of a matter of which root stock does best in your area. I'm not sure which does better where but I know that I've heard people say that Multiflora works better in some areas than DH and and vice-versa. And of course Fortuniana is definitely better in a southern climate rather than the north because it does not winter well. If it did I'd have it in a heart beat because it does really push fast and big growth. Which is exactly what root stock is all about. Some varieties will grow well on their own roots but many varieties were never tested for vigor because they were bred in an era where grafting was the standard procedure. So breeders didn't even consider that in their evaluations of a new rose. So now we are in an era of own root roses and those older varieties are iffy at best on their own roots. Some grow well and many others just don't. They need grafting to have any vigor at all. But after all is said and done the only way to know what works best for you is experimentation. Try it, you like it!

In the past, I have read that roses on Multiflora rootstock perform better in soils that are of a low pH or classified acidic. My gardening soil has always been alkaline. D.H. was reported to perform better in that soil pH. Of course, I purchased roses from Palatine that were on Multiflora despite warnings. Every rose I grew in LV on multiflora failed or struggled (Ascot, Dark Desire... and others). My soil pH is in the 7.6 range +/- .2. YMMV... for sure...

My 2 cents added to the conversation... :)

I have only one rose on multiple rootstocks, that’s PJPII on both Fort and Dr Huey. That’s a tiny sample size , but it does very well on either.

The majority of my roses are on Fort. They the most part they big, very well branched lush growers, so I can say Fort does very well here. It even does well planted directly in my heavy clay soil which was a surprise (I have fort-grafted Gemini and St Patrick planted directly in heavy black clay with some amendment, both are wonderful). But then again, I have roses on Dr Huey , Own-Root and Multflora that do very well too.

So I agree with Ken that variety matters more than rootstock (for my area, for which all the big 4 - Dr H, Fort, Mult, Own - can do well). While roses grow big and fast here, what I can’t get around is unsuitable genetics...some of those Kordes and Austins produce far too much vegetative growth for the number of flowers, have poor repeat and lots of blind shoots, and I’d think this would be the same regardless of rootstock.

I appreciate everyone’s input. I really should have my soil tested, but overall I do think multiflora does better for me. There are a few exceptions though.

Sara-Ann,

What kind of soil do you think you have? Sandy or clay, acidic or alkaline?

I’ve not had my soil tested either, but wide swaths of Texas, including my area, are very consistently dense alkaline clay, poor in nitrogen, extremely rich in phosphorus and potash. Last year I read that it needs some acidifier (sulfur) to make those nutrients more available...so I added it and think it made a huge difference. Texas A&M did extensive research on my type of soil and concluded that expanded shale (a very porous rock) will help aerate it long term, so I’m amending my planting hole with it as well.

BenT, I think my soil is a mix. My special front yard bed, which my late husband prepared for me has had lots of amendments added. Around the perimeter of my house my soil is pretty fertile for the most part, I’ve never had issues with it draining properly. There are places in my yard where the soil is sandy, and in a lot of places I can’t dig very deep without hitting rock.

Heh. It's amazing how the soil can differ so drastically. I got one bed that is hard as a rock....lotsa amendments, etc has made at least the top 8-10 inches better and the upper 4" is super fluffy and tilthy. Another bed just 10 feet over, I thought I would need to do the same job - so I had shovel, my power drill with *auger bit*, the works dragged out when I had a large planting to do in this bed. Turned out it was the complete opposite, and I did not even need to use my boot to heel in the shovel , even when digging 12" deep

Here's a release from A&M about the expanded shale from 2003.

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/newsletters/hortupdate/hortupdate_archives/2003/nov03/Expdshale.html

Not sure where you can buy it in bulk though?

I have compacted clay soil with lots of large rock throughout my entire yard.

The mere fact that a rose is grafted does not insure that it is better adapted to a certain soil condition or more resistant to nematodes than an own-root rose would be. It is important to select a rootstock that is specifically adapted to your situation - by selecting a rootstock to match the local soil and pest condition.

A grafted rose on 'Fortuniana' is a very different plant than one grafted to 'Dr. Huey' (so "grafted" is not just one thing), in the same sense, if you grow 50 different varieties on their own roots, then you have 50 DIFFERENT root systems involved, each of which differs from all the others in its soil preferences, pH tolerances, disease and nematode resistance, vigor, etc. That is a profoundly important concept that is almost always ignored in a simplistic discussion of the topic. By choosing a specific rootstock well-adapted to one's local soil conditions, we can improve the overquality of virtually any rose.

Here’s an example I read about: DA Graham Thomas and Heritage, which grow to be fantastically large, healthy shrubs on 'Fortuniana' roots, but they make very few flowers; they're just too vigorous. On the other hand, if grown own-root or on 'Dr. Huey' roots, they bloom frequently and consistently, on a much smaller bush that doesn't live more than 5 or 6 years in central Florida.

A 5 or 6 year old rose bush? And then it dies? Isn't that unusual?

In Florida the roses not on Fortuniana seemed to die after a few years from nematodes I have read here. Elsewhere, that seems very strange to me too. I read grafted roses can have a lifespan of about 15 years before they deteriorate (unless they go own root) often. I would prefer to have longer lived plants. Own root do well here. I think my ph is about 7 here as far as DH and multiflora doing well.

Here's a question I've never found a good answer to - what difference does the native soil make if the planting hole is 2'x2' (or larger) and heavily amended with compost and other additives as per the needs of the specific rose? The roots won't be growing into the native soil until it is mature and established, and by then, the soil in the hole will have mingled into the surrounding native soil.

FM. It takes a long time for soil to ~mingle~ no ? I once planted fairly large shrub. Rootball was huge, I washed out as much as I could. 3-4 years later, I was planting some annuals underneath it. To my surprise, with the hand shovel I was making for the annual plugs, when the shovel came out, out came wood chips (bark). I figuered surely by then, the native soil would have mingled in or the plug would have decomposed out to hummus. I was quite surprised to have ~bark chip~ come out when i dug that hole

A1an, it does seem like the wood chips would have decomposed into compost by then. They seem to decompose faster than that on top of the soil, when used as mulch. Still, the rose is growing on what I put in the planting hole, not so much on the surrounding soil - at least, that's what I thought. I always rough up the sides of the hole so it's not smooth and impenetrable like the sides of a pot, and to make it easier for the two soils to mix. Probably not really useful, but it makes me feel as though I'm helping the process.

@ Jc From what I read, most Florida soils are infested with many species of nematodes, some of which are entirely harmless, while others feed on plant roots. The most serious group on roses is the root knot nematodes. If a rose is not resistant to these pests, it will not likely be successful on its own roots or Dr Huey and etc.

I don't have much experience with rootstocks, except for the fact that Fortuniana and Multiflora seem to do very well for me (so far). I have sandy, slightly acidic soil.

Once my garden is more mature and I figure out which varieties of rose I like best, I plan to buy certain varieties on all three rootstocks and do some experimenting.

Like Sheila, I prefer own root when I can. But I have a feeling some roses will preform better for me grafted because I don't have ideal soil.