It depends on whether you want easy or not-as-easy, large and climbing or small and trailing. Australis is an aggressive grower and needs support if you plan to keep it neat. My 2-1/2 year old tenuipes hasn't bloomed for me yet, but I see peduncles forming this year. I have another australis ssp. and it's never bloomed for me in all the years (probably 10?) that I've had it. So even though I've heard australis is a vigorous bloomer, that hasn't been my experience as of yet. Lacunosa is nice because it stays smallish and, as Jen said, blooms pretty consistently once it's mature. Heck - I even have a cutting I rooted this spring that's got a bloom forming on it, and the cutting itself doesn't look all that spectacular yet! But I also find lacunosa needs a lot more attention than australis ssp tenuipes. It's one you can't let get too dry or you start getting dehydrated leaves and it's hard to bring them back from that after a few times. So I guess it comes down to what your preferences are... Denise in Omaha

Calif-Sue and MSJam2, please COME BY MORE OFTEN! These are absolutely gorgeous beautiful photos!!!!! Stop being once-in-a-blue-moon visitors! LOL, LOL! Calif-Sue your name always appears at Dave's Garden so please visit us more frequently. Your Chicago Peace is so beautiful! Well-rounded it's nice seeing your pretty roses. Lana, as you can tell how much Harold and I are so inspired by your garden. Except, LOL! I am sure Harold will do justice to your roses unlike me! We both are ordering YOUR FOLKLORE! and now Harold's got Your Vino Russo. I am also severely tempted with your Violon d'Ingres, but I only want exceptional-fragranced roses and have no idea what its fragrance is like. I love your Violon d'Ingres...so even though it didn't make the cut in your final decision, I think of it as an outstanding Romantic Antique Rose because of both its beauty and uniqueness. Harold, LOL! as you can tell we are all having a hard time just putting up one! favorite rose photo. Harold in another thread you will have to update us on all your additions! I can't wait to see your Gemini. I have 2 more pretty, lovely Gemini photos in my lumpy garden thread. They're not as classically beautiful as in this thread and as in my 2nd and 3rd flushes, but they're still the prettiest of this 4th flush that I've got. Gemini has several new baby stems popping out and I can't wait to see the new baby leaves come out. They're looking really good and healthy! P.S. Harold, poor Jim! Be sure to check my email. I emailed you but sometimes emails get lost in the Spam folder or the Junk Mail box so be sure to check those folders. Looks like we need another set of Get Well Bouquet Wishes. Maybe you can get some baby Vino Russo and Gemini photos going for him! He loves seeing the entire plant, so I bet those would cheer him up in that we are thinking of him!

Hi romy718, Here is a draft layout of my plan. Other than shifting the middle island slightly and giving it that extension on the bottom end, this is the footprint of the existing kitchen, which is dark and not optimally functional. To give you an idea of the current space, the island on the lower right (with a designation "prep sink?") is where my kitchen sink is now, which is approximately 15' away from my cook top. My oven and microwave are inserted into the top left corner taking up an inordinately large amount of counter space. By moving my sink I gain functionality, and even though I lose the upper cabinets that are on the existing wall to a new window, I gain light. By moving ovens I gain counter space. I lose my desk, but there is still a space for dropping stuff off, which will be smaller and thus I hope it will make for less of a visual eyesore. I am also most likely to use a 42" refrigerator and thus won't need the refrigerator drawers. As for size, the long refrigerator wall is ~17', the range wall is a little over 13', and the wall where the sink goes is ~12'. The bottom side opens to the family room and the lower right opens to a breakfast room, which will remain untouched. Any comments on design? I have the room for the 48" range, I'm just not sure if I want to give up that nice large oven on the 36" range. What about the oven stack right next to the fridge, versus having (left to right) fridge then pantry then oven stack then drop-off place? Thanks to all.

Tropic brown, tan brown are two others. There are very dark golds like Juparana Tobacco or Paradiso which might work. You might also consider something like teak wood. Etching leaves white marks. On a brown marble it will be very visible. For fun, I got a two buck pink marble tile from the box store and had "science" when I was trying to decide about counters. Science consisted of pouring a small qty of lemon-lime soda on a bit of the marble and seeing if I could get it off before it etched. The answer was NO! I would suggest you spend a couple bucks to get a tile similar to what you want to use and have your own science project.