How hard can it get? Here is an example: In the state of Florida to become a Plumber you have to complete a four year apprenticeship before you are permitted to sit for the license exam. During the apprenticeship you have to work a minimum of 40hrs per week for 200weeks, which is four years less vacation time(any week inwhich you work less than 40 hrs does not count). At the end of each week you have to submit a timecard to the state apprenticeship board and the timecard details how many hours you worked in each catergory for that week. During that four years you have to also attend a four year state approved technical school or college course where you study the Plumbing Code, plumbing theory, and a little bit on OSHA, workmans comp and necessary licensing requirements. At the end of the four years you get a Diploma from the Tech school, a certificate of completion from the state apprenticeship board and a letter of recommendation from the Master Plumber that you worked under. You then pay a $250 non-refundable testing fee and you are given a list of 12 books that you must bring with you for the exam. (The books are another $500, and given that they are rewritten about every 18 to 24 months to remain current, you have to buy new books). You then have to wait until the exams are being given (Only twice a year) and you have to travel to Tallahassee or Miami to take the exam. They allow you two full 8 hour days to complete the exam and statistically, 70% will fail the first time they take the exam. If you fail, you have to wait until the next testing cycle and pay the testing fee again before you can sit for the exam. I shall never forget my first night in the apprenticeship class. I too had been a DIY'er, who became a handyman, then went on to work maintenance in 3 large motel/conference centers, two hospitals and a municipal school district where we did all the maintenance in 9 public school buildings. I walked into the apprenticeship class room feeling really cock sure of myself. I had been doing plumbing work for nearly 15 years, how hard could this be? The instructor walked in and went to his desk. He says "I see we have a couple new faces, lets all introduce ourselves" and we made with the usual introductory small talk for about 10 minutes then the instructor says, "in honor of our new students, lets have a simple quiz tonight, and as soon as your done, you can go home early" He then opened a 4"dia PVC tube, took out a stack of building prints and began passing them out, one to each student. As he was passing them out he says "You guys will note that these are all simple one story 3br 3-1/2 bath on slab and I have marked a spot in the back yard where the septic tank will be. Your project is to do a complete DWV layout and annotate all pipe sizes and cleanout locations, then do an Isometric on a sheet of typing paper. As soon as your done you can lay your work on my desk and go home". One of the guys was done in 45minutes and perhaps half the class was done within the first hour while I sat there with a total of one line on my paper and the next week when we reviewed the work, I found out that was wrong. Finally two hours had passed and the class was over, so I turned my paper in, still with my one line... and I was feeling as dumb as a box of rocks. The instructor glanced at my print and says "not as easy as one might think is it? But don't worry, if you take the classes serious in 6 months you will be going home in 45minutes too."

rodboyz3, we did this exact thing in 2007. We added a large den (24x26) behind the kitchen in 2002. The LR, in front of the kitchen became a wasted space. Just a walk thru. Like you, we walk into a small foyer (at the front door), take a left and enter what used to be the LR but is now a much needed dining room. We tore down the wall between the kitchen and new dining room and added a counter height bar...an extension of a kitchen counter run. This opened up the kitchen and made it and the dining more open to each other. The 60" round table seats 8 and the bar can seat 4. The flow is excellent. No more turning sideways to get past people from one room to the other (when there's a crowd). I also worried about the dining room coming off the entry but it's absoLUTEly not a problem :) I'm sorry I can't embed photos right now. I don't know if it's me or GW, but I've been having problems for a couple months now. Below is a link to three pictures. In the first picture, I'm standing in the kitchen looking out over the added bar into the dining room. You can see the small entry foyer. You can also see that over a year later we still haven't decided what to clad the base of the bar with (LOL) Click "next" in the lower right corner. See the alcove and door to the left? That alcove used to be DH's closet. The door leads to our master bedroom. That layout also concerned me but, again, it's not a problem. We created space that WE needed and worked with what we had. For this last picture, I'm standing at the large picture window you saw in the other photos, looking thru the kitchen into the den (and a lovely shot of the "nekkid" bar and back of the trash compactor :o) We're very happy with our customized space. I think you will be happy with yours too :) Monica Here is a link that might be useful: LR to DR Conversion

Paint it a lighter more neutral color and paint the ceiling white. That dual colored ceiling does not allow the ceiling to "float" above. It delineates the ceiling too starkly, IMHO. I am guessing that there is no closet in that room. Some tall free standing wall cabinets/shelves might be something to consider. It is often nice to keep kids toys with pieces together and/or displayed. A puzzle with a piece missing is just a piece of junk. A puzzle on a shelf in an inviting box is enticing. One good toy with all the pieces intact is much more valuable than that box of jumbled junk in the corner. I would offer you to consider a nice small table with a couple of chairs ( not a kids table) for doing things such as play doh and holiday cookies, crafts, puzzles, board games, school projects and other such stuff. You need somewhere to sit in there and maybe a nice lamp. Perhaps a magnetic dry erase board on the wall might be in the future, and maybe some where to display the kids art. Perhaps you could create a reading/sitting area by putting in a window seat along the window. It does not have to be built in. It could be quite simple in design. You could put a comfy cushion on it and have storage under the bench. It sounds as if you may have decided not to use it as a dining room for a good long time, if ever. My advice would be to let that happen and go ahead and add pieces to the room that suit your needs. Yet I would advise you to not choose pieces that are strictly juvenile. Instead, choose pieces that will translate in the coming years. You can add juvenile elements with the cushion fabric and maybe a nice little valence on the window. Add that element with the things that are easily replaced or removed as time goes on. You might want to consider taking out that ceiling fixture in there and replacing it with something much less dining room looking. Remember, the kids are only little for a few short years. Before you know it, that teddy bear will have waddled out the door, Thomas and his friends will have chugged on down the track, and those primary colors plastic shelfs and pastel shaded canvas boxes will be too babyish. Instead of a building things with a tower of soft blocks, they will be curled up on a cushion with their ipads watching Peppa Pig and the unboxing of an endless array of toys on YouTubeKids, until about the early teens, when they will hide behind their closed bedroom doors. Tall shelving Seating A table Neutral, non juvenile pieces That is my advice for your nice room And, this grandmother might add another word of advice. That would be to try to value quality over quantity. Our children are so overwhelmed with too much stuff, most of which has no real redeeming quality or value to it. I would advise you to seek quality in time and experiences with each other rather than the latest plastic licensed character toy. No Paw Patrol toy is ever going to replace that time spent together, or time spent with friends just imagining. I watched a couple of little boys outside in the cul de sac yesterday, playing. It is not as common as it once was to see kids actually outside riding bikes and playing. These little guys are about eight years old. They were pretending that they wiped out on their bikes and had to come and rescue each other. Had I not been watching them and knew that they were playing, I would have panicked to see the one laying in the middle of the road with his bike to the side. The only super heros in sight for them were each other as they came to each others aid. I am a baby boomer grandmother now and this is about the only way we played when I was young. We had no room full of toys or 24 hour media. My kids had not much growing up, either. Today kids just are over whelmed with stuff. Your room is nice. But, try to fill it with experiences, not an endless array of plastic junk. That tide of plastic junk will come rolling in the front door and out the back on it's way to a landfill. There is so much plastic junk being thrown out into the garbage because most of it is not recyclable. Mostly all it leaves behind for the child is a forgettable experience of opening the brightly printed box and taking it all out.

Thank you so much. It took me 5 years to rip the band-aide off and just do it. I wasted a lot of energy and brain cells worrying if it’s the right choice for some mythical buyer 10 years from now that may or may not like the set up. But then I decided to do what works for us. If I ever sell, then whoever buys it can decide what works for them. It has made life so much easier. I’m not going to the garage or basement or closet or laundry room looking for the one pan/dish I need because I didn’t remember where we put it the last time it was used. Now I just have to go to a cabinet 5 feet away.