You'll be dealing with your town's risk manager -- it's just like working with an insurance company's property adjuster. You file a claim then negotiate a settlement. If you have pictures and receipts it will help your case. Maybe you can get some bids from landscapers. Seems like the town can pay someone to do the restoration work for you. Ask for what you think is fair -- the worst that can happen is they say "no".

Good luck with your claim. It must have been heart-breaking to see your beloved garden destroyed!

What is the population of your town? Do you have a newspaper? Have you taken pictures?

So I understand:

Do the storm drains to which you refer conduct water from your roof or elsewhere on your property, to the street, into which they discharge? Are they municipal storm drains which carry water from the street to elsewhere, like a river, and just happen to run underground through your yard?

Did trench digging (for the supply line) break a “storm drain”, thus allowing water carried by said drain to discharge into your yard? If so, did the Digger recognize the breach when it occurred?

Seems like you'd need legal representation to deal with getting compensation out of the responsible public agency. And a horticultural consultant to prepare an assessment of the damaged plantings. The consultant may have to be one that is accepted and recognized by the involved government agency or other relevant parties. For instance an arborist I used to work for was gone part of the time because he was listed with or otherwise known to the litigation system as a tree expert, would be called away to give legally accepted opinions on occurrences such as traffic accidents that had involved trees. To additionally illustrate I'll mention that when an elderly friend had started giving specimen trees and shrubs from his own garden to a local parks district, wanted me to produce a valuation so he could take them off his taxes I found out the IRS maintains a list of approved consultants for such purposes. Which I assumed I wasn't on, since I had never talked to anyone at the Service about it before.

In most cases, except for mature trees, the valuation of perennials and shrubs is just replacement value......what it would cost to buy the same plant at a nursery. There is no added value for size or age. Sorry :-( And pictures and receipts are very helpful - that is really the only way you can establish or justify the extent of the garden before its destruction. Without some verification of what was there before it was destroyed it is just going to be a p*ssing match between you as the homeowner and the adjustor or risk manager for the governing authority. And we know how that is likely to turn out!

And it is just not the replacement of the plants but the work involved in turning the garden back into a plantable space and the effort involved in locating and planting all the replacement plants. One thing you could do is prepare a scale plan of the garden as best you recall from before the incident with all the plants labeled, much like what a landscape designer would prepare. You can then put this out for bids to several landscaping companies, making sure they also understand what the garden looks like now and what is required to get it back to being plant-ready. That would at least get you an estimated cost to regain a similar garden, which is about the best you can hope for. And plants DO grow :-) It won't be long before your garden looks better than ever!

Thought I would post a couple of before and after pics. It is heartbreaking but to put it in perspective no one died and no one is sick.

The storm drain is just past the hydro pole. The storm drains in this little town have not been cleaned in years, therefore the drains were clogged and cannot accept anymore runoff from anywhere., the digging did not cause this, it was bound to happen.

I don't want to rip anyone off, I just want fair compensation for the damage. Witnesses here who are officials that had to inspect the new water lines and a man was DOT was here. They say it was no fault of the guys installing the pipes, it was the collapse of the storm drains.

I am in a small village with no landscapers around to call upon. I have written a list of every possible plant I had, and found prices in a catalogue and averaged out the price to allow for different varieties. I am in this on my own. I will also be levelling off the land come spring just in case any plants survivied this heavy mud on them all winter.

Thanks all for your input.

Valerie

I am an avid gardener and understand your pain. (Plus I’d be concerned about any foundation issues to my home.)

However, as said above, you’re going to need all the luck in the world to get compensation from whoever is identified as the responsible party, especially if it’s a government agency. Was yours the only yard affected? If not, can you team up with other neighbors in this battle?

By”collapse of the storm drains”, do you mean excessive street flooding (with resultant flooding of your property) due to blocked inlets? Do you, in fact, have “storm drains under my lawn”, as per your opening post?

gardengal48 posted: ‘In most cases, except for mature trees, the valuation for perennials and shrubs is just replacement value ... what it would cost to buy the same plant at a nursery. There is no added value for size or age.’

She says ‘no added value for size’. But at nurseries, size almost always is a big factor in cost. So, I wonder if she meant to say this. The “size” portion of her statement may be causing you unnecessary concern.

Nurseries seldom sell mature plants :-) There is a distinct limit to the sizes typically available to the retail market - generally 4", quart, gallon and possiby 2 gallons for any perennials and maybe upto 5 or 7 gallon sizes for shrubs at a larger nursery or garden center. Generally much smaller if by mail order. By no means do these approximate the size of a mature specimen of the same plant well established in a garden!! So the valuation would be based on whatever sizes are common to purchase in your area, not the size or age of the plant as it was in the garden.

So yes, I did mean to say this :-) I am called upon to do plant valuations from time to time as part of my responsbilities as a consulting horticulturist so I am pretty familiar with the process.

You need to have a landscaper to estimate the damage in writing-. the replacement of your roses and lawn cost plus labor. The roses are about $30-40 each, the lawn goes by how much topsoil would need.

10 roses at $40 each=$400

2 yd topsoil =$100

labor =$500

I am guessing the estimate should be around $1,000. Do you really want to go through all the troubles and stress to go against your town? I’d just replant some roses myself. You buy bareroot roses online is about $20-25 each plus shipping. If you wait until the end of May there are many the end of the season sales, you could find English Roses makedown to $15 each. Topsoil is around $35 per yd. You could just get it done for less than $250......

There is no “add value to size” when it comes to plant replacement.

" I am guessing the estimate should be around $1,400-1,500."

That is exceeding low for a garden replacement!! The cost of plants for a typical modest front yard garden design in my area would easily exceed twice that.....and before any additons of soil, necessary grading or labor was factored in.

I was guessing by the rate in my area. She should call a couple landscapers for some estimates. It’s a good thing she has a small yard and a few plants In the front, it’s cheaper to fix.

I went through this, had a car accident in my front rose garden. Damaged about 40 roses plus lawn.

Have you tried going to a Town Hall meeting yet to make your complaint? This may be something that does not actually fall under their jurisdiction, but you can make sure your complaint gets onto open public record this way.

It may be that another entity, like a drain commission or other county entity would be responsible.

Your own homeowners insurance might have something to say too, have you contacted them yet?

And keep in mind that even if you do ID who to go after for this- you will likely have to hire an attorney to make it happen. You may have to prove that you actually put in the plants, and the plants original cost- and maybe have to have a professional or even multiple professionals give estimates for replacement costs to present to whatever entity is responsible. That may depend on which entity you end up dealing with.

And also keep in mind that with the speed at which complaints/lawsuits like this get processed and go, you may be working on this for a year or more likely several years before your complaint gets settled.

I forgot about one thing since you are going to file against your town. Is the first 7-10 ft from the street belongs to the town? If you planted the 10 (?) roses within that distance, the town may/ may not replace them......

Sorry about this happened. What the other neighbors say about their lawn/ garden due to this construction that benefits the whole neighborhood?

I also have roses planted within that distance in town’s yard. If they were going to do the same thing, I’d dig up my roses ahead and replant them back to the same spot after the construction. For the lawn damage my town normally repairs it after the construction.

It certainly looks like a mess! But it’s not a big area and I agree with the various comments above re potential difficulties and timeline in getting it resolved/paid for by the local authorities. In my area, that land would be within the setback limits/easement that belongs to the Town. We can garden there but the Town (or utility companies) can rip it up if they need to. So there is a strip of my front garden that could be ripped out at any time without much prior notice and no compensation. We garden there anyway. In your situation, I’d be slinging around a lot of bad language :-) and then just get on with it and replace the garden as best I could - or just grass it over if I expected further damage from repairs to whatever broke in the first place! Good luck to you in whatever option you choose to pursue.

onewheeler said:

"a lot of them cannot be replaced. Roses I got from Pickering were lost. Perennials that I searched high and low for were lost."

You need to find the varieties that you lost as large as possible, at whatever cost.

Trees are replaced that are very large, the responsible party pays. You could get a tree installed that is 15 foot or more. The cost for that is more than to replace a bare root whip. I know you're talking roses but I'm just emphasizing the importance of finding the varieties you lost in as large a size you can find.

I once had a discussion with an attorney who stated that the location of the planting was very important. He said that while a replacement tree might be worth $10,000 in a garden, the same size tree in the woods might only be valued at $100. What I take from that conversation is that you shouldn't accept replacement value at the cost of rose plants at a big box store. Also your work is worth what a landscaper would charge. You might want to have a discussion with an arboretum or someone from a respected, by you, rose grower . There may be auctions or growers willing to sell large plants if you were willing to pay the price.

I'd at least have a conversation with a respected real estate attorney. They will usually not charge for an initial conversation. But a lot of attorneys may not be interested because of the potential fee they might earn.

" He said that while a replacement tree might be worth $10,000 in a garden, the same size tree in the woods might only be valued at $100. "

That is a very specious statement and not at all accurate!! There is, at least in the US, a very well described and accepted means of evaluating the financial value of a tree and I would certainly not rely on the word of an attorney to educate one's self on how that works. Many certified arborists are trained in tree appraisals so if that is concern, get one of them involved.

And let me be clear that perennials and shrubs are NOT valued in the same manner! Those is only governed by replacement cost at a size that is the closest available to what was lost.

btw, very few attorneys will involve themselves in this matter unless it comes down to a lawsuit. They are certainly not in the position to advise on value!!

"That is a very specious statement and not at all accurate!!"

I'm not going to argue the opinion of an attorney.

To clarify my point. If a big corporation were building a suburban office complex, they would not buy the same plants we would. They would buy a bigger tree, bigger bushes. Onewheeler needs to find the suppliers they would use to source their materials. The sources I suggested might know, I'm sure their are others.

Quote:

"only governed by replacement cost at a size that is the closest available to what was lost."

Onewheeler needs to find roses in ""

a size that is the closest available to what was lost"

I am just wondering when the town was digging up the lawn why you didn’t take the roses and pot them up if they were rare roses. Post the list of the roses you lost on Antique Rose forum, people who have those might root one for you.

I don’t see there is a need to get an attorney involved for a 10’x20’ small garden that looks like on town’s property.

If part of the plantings were in the public right of way (easement) that would definitely matter. Otherwise in your picture it looks like they consisted mostly of comparatively inexpensive deciduous shrubs and herbaceous perennials. (Rather than the scheme being something like a dwarf conifer collection or Japanese garden, with individual specimens perhaps decades old and considered to have very much greater monetary value).

"I'm not going to argue the opinion of an attorney."

Well, you should :-)) Attorneys really have no knowledge of this situation - even real estate attorneys do not deal with this routinely and then only after receiving the advice of industry professionals.

I photshoped the before picture so I could make out what was there.

I wouldn't sue the guvment or some big construction company in small claims court and here to go any higher you'd almost have to have an attorney, especially with some judges. Just happened that the sewer collapsed while they was diggin with that big machine. In Pa you have fee simple title to the middle of the street, the municipality has a right of way thru your property. That's why a home owner has liability for injuries on side walks.

That said I don't know if they'll be liable for their damages. The municipality might not, the construction company might.

I know someone who had damage from city property. She called every morning; at the same time checking on her case. They paid, took maybe a year.

Here in Nova Scotia the Department of Transport is responsible to clean the storm drains. I went to my village hall first, they gave me the names of people to call. I also wrote letters to engineers and municipality people and my local cousellor. Everyone is aware of my problem. the guy from Department of Transport was here, took pics and a claim form was sent to me.

My concerns were how much do I claim for lost plants, labor, mulch, etc. Living in a tiny village there are no landscapers around. My garden is the biggest around. The pics I posted do not really show the entire scope of things. I did have mature roses dug out prior to the water pipes being laid as I knew they were digging a ditch to lay the pipes. That was all taken care of. I was mainly wondering how much a square foot i should charge to replace plants. I am not getting a lawyer involved, it would cost me more for that than to replace the plants.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

Valerie

Again you need to have a consultant work up a valuation. Somebody who is informed of the exact extent of all of the materials that were lost, so they have a basis to work from. You need to present them with a list of all the plants and everything else you want to be compensated for.

Valerie -- It must be frustrating not having anyone local to call for help. If I was in your shoes I'd probably do my shopping online to come up with a reasonable request. Here's how I would do it:

• Create a list of plants
• Price them out using online nurseries
• Estimate additional needed supplies (compost, fertilizer, mulch, etc.) and price them out
• Estimate the number of hours it would take someone skilled to replant the garden
• Decide on an hourly rate that person might charge

Put it all together so It would look something like this:

25 perennials @ $10 ea. = $250

10 roses @ $50 ea. = $500

5 evergreen shrubs @ $20 ea. = $100

2 cu. yards of mulch @ $25 yd. = $50

10 hours labor at $25 hr. = $250

TOTAL = $1150

Just do the best you can. Hopefully you can get some financial compensation in time for Spring planting. You made it beautiful once -- you will do it again! Good luck from one gardener to another.

einportlander that is exactly how I was doing my claim. thanks so much for the help.

Same representative total that was suggested previously in thread.

You have a claim form? That's good, what does it say?

The claim form asks that I list the damages, what caused the damages, where it took place and what type of work was being done.

Environova in Falmouth, or similar turnkey operation, should be able to give you an accurate figure on replacement cost. To replace any large/mature plantings that you lost may be very costly. But, particularly if the government entity you hold responsible ultimately foots the bill, it an be done. As John D described, it’s done all the time.

If you look at the company’s website, you will see large mechanized equipment moving large mature specimens. If you think your project is too “small“ for them to be interested, ask what dollar amount would make them interested. That would be your replacement cost - the amount it would take to “make you whole”.

Do not beat yourself up trying to come up with ”how much do I claim.” Let an expert company capable of completing the work prepare a written estimate, with the understanding that it be be awarded the contract once the responsible entity agrees to pay the full amount necessary to restore your property to it’s prior condition.

What happened to you is very bad. Bad NS DOT. But do you believe you have a winnable legal case? Does Houzz have a Legal forum? Are any no/low cost legal resources available in the province?

Hope you were able to rectify this unfortunate matter. If not, there are very good suggestions in this thread for placing value on your loss. I would stay away from attorneys unless you know of someone who will take such a case pro-bono, or at a very low hourly rate. Attorneys fees alone could cost more than your claim...

Depends on if they needed one to get action.

Photo provided above shows no large woody specimens of particularly valuable types like weeping lace-leaf Japanese maples or decades old dwarf conifers are involved.

The claim has been made. Now it is just a matter of waiting to hear back from them.

thanks for all your comments.

Valerie