Carol, and here I already had this vision of you as a sensible gardener, unlike the rest of us! I dub you the quantifier! LOL!

I was horrible last year. I had tons and tons of seed, and didn't consider the amount of soil, pots, organics, and fertilizers, not to mention ROOM, to plant them all. I need to give away lots and lots of seed.

Susan

Susan, Sensible, probably not. In fact I may be the most unpredictable person you know. LOL

I try to encourage my kids to garden so I planted a few extra plants for my daughter in law for her first garden, plus she went through my seed box and took what she wanted. Since she only had a few small square foot gardening beds, it didn't take many seeds to fill it. It didn't have a fence and I was afraid the deer would get into it, but they have big dogs and she said the deer don't come up to the house like they once did. She had a nice little garden and wants to make it bigger next year. That was her first garden ever.

My daughter from Utah lives in town and has so many trees that it is hard for her to plant, but she planted in containers last year and said her tomatoes were amazing. I told her to find a black and I think she planted Carbon. They loved them, so I bought her a few packs of seed at Baker Creek and when she was here at Thanksgiving she went through my seed box and took a few more.

If I tell myself that I am supplying the entire family then I can justify the purchase and take some of the guilt away. LOL

We have friends here that have a large farm and his elderly mother also has a farm, so they have plenty of land. Al was talking to him on the phone last year and he asked about my garden. I heard Al tell him that I was out of room. I said, "Tell him I need five more acres and he can drop it by anytime." He laughed and said he sure had the five acres if I wanted to plant it. I told Al that it was a good thing he didn't say that when I was a bit younger, or he would have had all of the peppers and tomatoes we could all eat. Every year I tell myself to cut back a little, but it doesn't seem to be working well at all.

I am making an effort to plant those things "that keep on giving". Last year I planted an asparagus bed, and horseradish and some berry vines. I also planted rhubarb, strawberries and jeruselum artichokes, but I didn't have a lot of luck with those.

I like to see everything grow, so I have a hard time cutting back.

Thakns, Paula, I showed it to my husband. We may get it. I see they also have the hi/lo thermometer I want. And a fan that may work for us.

You're welcome, Dorothy! Of course I was tickled pink to find something to work on our well house, but when I discovered it could also be used in a greenhouse...well, the wheels started turning. I'll have to check out their fans too. A greenhouse is a bit after a cellar on the future projects list...but I might be able to persuade DH to get to it sooner rather than later....especially since I've now gone thru TWO seeds catalogs and only have about 12 things selected.

Aren't you all proud? I'm really "cutting back"...but it's still early in the "selection" process so we'll see how I end up the end of January when I actually start my maters & peppers.....

I know what you mean, Carol, about justifying all the seeds purchases. I do the same thing because I give away so many plants to my FIL and people at work. I've got at least 5 of my work friends growing tomatoes & peppers that NEVER thought about trying....the wealth of enabling needs to spread farther than this forum! LOL!

I was interested in the heater although I don't have a need for it yet. One of these days I will build a greenhouse, but for now it is just 'po folks style' gardening for me. You should see my garden. I have it almost covered with leaves now. We got them all in the garden today but I didn't quite get them all spread. I may have to do it in the rain tomorrow but I will not complain. They installed a new heat pump today so I have a nice warm house tonight. I could have had a nice greenhouse with those dollars, but I guess heat and air conditioning is more important. LOL

Al laughs about how many seeds I have but when he goes with me to the seed store he buys as many as I do. Once in Baker Creek I told him to not let me forget to buy bean seeds. He said OK, and walked away. In a few minutes he came back and said, "You don't need to look because I got you one of everything they had".

And just for the record, the storm shelter came before the greenhouse at my house also, but it's done.

Paula, I'm not sure we would run out of seeds even if we didn't buy any because we have too many gardening friends that are big time enablers. You know who you are. LOL

I have been pretending I am not a gardener since our recent horrid summer.We had spent more money and time getting ready than we ever had before so we were as discouraged as everyone else was.My mama in the nursing home had five serious fractures in the past 6 months so we were busy with hospitals once again.But now I am getting the catalogs...........arghhhhhh .I am afraid to hope for the new garden.I know I sound crazy but my FT job ended July 1 so now I have to be even more careful about where I plunk my little resources and if money and time do not equal SOME food I will feel like a bad steward of our money.Is there a garden therapist in the house???lol.........

I complained about my garden this year because it was a hard gardening year, but each time I went to the grocery store, I would find that my shopping was like this, "I have that in the garden; That will be ready next week: That is already in the freezer, etc. In addition, I had pecans in the freezer, half of a beef, catfish from the lake, and two grocery bags of pork from the meat sale. I also have chickens that keep me supplied with eggs and in two years I have bought one carton of eggs, to do the Thanksgiving baking.

I do spend some money on gardening things, but some of it was for things that will never have to be replaced, like my stainless steel tools. I buy mushroom compost at a very good price, and my neighbors say they will always keep me supplied with leaves.

I buy pepper seed once, for less that a few fresh peppers at the grocery store, and we have all we can eat all summer and enough frozen to cook with all year. Have you looked at the price of salsa? If I need to dump a can of tomatoes into something, I don't get bent out of shape over it, but if I run out of salsa, I'm upset. LOL

Living in Oklahoma, we will always have unpredictable weather, so I just expect it. The one thing that I can always be sure of, is a wet spring. Nothing can 'sprawl' in my garden because it would just rot. I have a few raised beds in my garden, and they are simply to improve drainage for the Spring crops. One has asparagus now, one is going to be for onions, and the other will probably be for salad greens. Our rainfall this year is 48.65 inches, even with a dry summer. Last year was a dry year with 10 inches less.

Dawn almost lives in Texas and I am just a few miles from Missouri, but some years she gets a freeze later than I do. I don't start things as early as she does, because I can't depend on the good weather starting early. Even when I do start putting my tomatoes in the ground, I only plant as many as I can easily cover. I normally plan on the middle of April, but then I watch the weather carefully and hold off if it looks like I should. I usually have to cover more when they say we may get hail than for cold, although the hail rarely comes.

I don't spend a lot of money on very many things, but if I want to spend it on my garden, then I will. Working in my garden is good exercise, and I grow healthy food, so I think that is a win-win situation.

Leava, It is hard to imagine another year as difficult for gardeners as 2011, so I am going to believe that 2012 will be better. Now, if rain doesn't fall here in Jan. and Feb., I might start revising my planting plans downward a bit. January and February are pretty dry in my county every year, but if absolutely nothing is falling from the sky, I'll take that as an omen.

The only 2 big garden mistakes I made in 2011 were: (1) I tried a lot of unproven tomato varieties (along with some very reliable old favorites), and this year I am sticking more with only the old, proven, reliable varieties that tend to produce well despite the weather; and (2) I kept watering long after I knew I should just turn off the faucet and walk away and let the garden sink or swim, produce or not, on its own. For 2012, I've told myself that the water faucet won't be turned on to water the veggies, herbs and flowers after July begins if it is a miserably dry year like last year.

My garden didn't have such a bad year in 2011 overall, although some crops didn't produce well, but I spent a lot more money watering it than I should have. That's not something I'll do again because it just isn't cost-effective.

For the overall landscape, I believe rain fell in the nick of time and in suitable quantities beginning in September that it might have saved the perennials, grasses, shrubs and trees that seem headed for certain death without the autumn rainfall. Only time will tell if I am correct in thinking that, though. Well-established plants tend to bounce back from even extreme or exceptional drought as long as it does not persist for too long, so I have high hopes that we have little of our landscaping because of the heat and drought.

Carol, Like you, there were times I complained about the garden and felt it was underproducing in the heat, but when I look back on the year overall, it still did really well in many areas. I haven't bought sweet corn, potatoes, jalapeno peppers, onions, green beans, okra or snap peas all year, and the year is almost over. I even still have two one-gallon zip-lock bags of tomatoes in the freezer, so we aren't even through eating all the tomatoes yet. However, compared to a year like 2010 when I filled 3 freezers and canned over 600 jars of 'stuff', the garden year was much, much less productive that I would have liked. Fruit was a total failure, though that's the fault of the repeated hailstones that knocked the fruit off the trees and you really can't prevent that or plan for it. The flowers were so skimpy I never once cut a bouquet and brought it inside. Instead, I left the flowers out there for the bees and butterflies and other insects who needed the nectar and pollen.

All in all, it was an awful year in general but that doesn't mean the garden didn't produce. It just didn't produce as much as usual. Of course, I expect really high production from my veggie and herb garden, so even though I think the garden underproduced, I still got quite a lot of stuff from it compared to some folks here in my part of the state. This was the first year that I saw some long-time gardeners in my area not even bother planting at all, but I cannot say I blame them either. The weather certainly didn't give us any reason to have high expectations for good harvests in 2011. Those of us who did plant had remarkably good production from some types of veggies despite the drought. I am amazed at how tough okra is, for example, and I knew it was tough but it was even more drought-tolerant and productive than I thought it would be.

Like you, I do spend money on my garden, but consider it well-spent because it keeps me busy and active, provides fruit, veggies, herbs and flowers most years, and serves as 'garden therapy' for my garden-hungry soul even in bad years when the garden produces much less than in good years.

The hardest part about this year was not having that much excess produce to can or dry, so in December I went on a canning binge, spending money at the store for habaneros and dried apricits so I could make Habanero Gold, for example, after I used up all the habs I'd grown, chopped and frozen. Canning like a crazy woman the first three weeks of December was wonderful. We had some warm, sunny days in December and the canning kept me busy and made it feel like summertime since it heated up the kitchen and made it hot and steamy. I canned a little over 200 jars of jelly and jam and gave away most of it as Christmas gifts, but just having the jam and jelly to give away made the garden year feel more normal overall, even though everything I canned didn't come from my own garden.

I am down to just 4 jars of salsa, but have frozen tomatoes, peppers and onions so I can make more. And, even though I did make some plum jelly from 2010's extracted, frozen plum juice, I still have a lot of frozen juice for future batches of plum jelly.

One lesson from 2011 is that it does pay to put up as much of the excess crop as you can in a great year (like 2010)because that frozen, canned or dried produce can make up for a harder year like we had in 2011. Just this week I am finishing up a gallon zip-lock of dried cherry tomatoes from 2010, so I don't feel quite tomato-starved yet, though the first fresh tomato of 2012 remains a distant dream.

Still, even if I felt like we lost money on the garden, I'd do it anyway. For me, gardening is about enjoying the process as much as it is about reaping the harvest.

I found 5 or 6 more garden catalogs in my mailbox today, so even though I think I already have all the seeds I need for 2012 (nay, more seeds than I need), I will look through them to see what catches my eye.

Dawn

We have been in Texas for a few days so I came home to find four new catalogs. I have placed one small order with Johnny's because I wanted the inserts that go on my block maker. I have had the two smallest block makers for years and I don't think the insert was even available when I bought mine. I look at it every year but never remember to order it. I plant a lot of things in small blocks and it would certainly make it easier to move the small block with it's growing plant into a larger block. Of course, when you are already paying postage............. We all know the end of this statement, don't we?

I have most of the seeds I need but will probably place a Willhite order when they post their 2012 catalog, and you know that I will not turn down a trip to Baker Creek if Al decides he would like to make a 'road trip'.

The interesting thing about today's catalogs were all the berry vines, but I'm not sure it is worth fighting the birds for the fruits. LOL

I got my first two catalogs yesterday: Gurney's and Gardens Alive. The Gardens Alive one included a coupon for $25 off the purchase and said that if you spend $25 or less it's free, so I might use that to try some stuff. My strawberries were wiped out by bugs last summer, so I'll definitely order some new plants. My raspberry plant died too, but it produced so poorly through the years that I'm not sure I want to buy any more. If I do I'll have to get the varieties that claim to tolerate southern climates better.

The catalogs are really starting to pick up now. Yesterday I got Burpee, Cook's Garden, and Thompson & Morgan and today I got Gurney's, Gardens Alive, and Henry Fields. The way it's worded is confusing, but I think the Gardens Alive coupon is only $25 off if you spend $50. I know last year there was actually a coupon that gave you $25 off with no limitations, but I can't remember which company it was.

Leslie

That's what I was thinking when I saw it, but I read the fine print like four times to make sure I didn't miss some kind of disclaimer. There didn't appear to be one. The only downside is that I'd have to submit my order by mail with the coupon enclosed. That's not really a big deal, but I haven't ordered something by snail mail in like ten years, lol!

The garden catalog in my mailbox today was John Schleepers Kitchen Garden Seeds. There is nothing I really need, but I know if I look through this particular catalog, I'll likely find something I want.

The small order that I placed with Johnny's on Monday night came priority mail today. Now that is fast from Maine to Oklahoma. I didn't pay extra for priority, but it was light so they sent it that way. Not much, just inserts for my block maker, Sluggo, and 5 packs of seed, Arcadia Broccoli, Tiburon Ancho and 3 other packs from their closeouts.

Carol, you are rotten, what with dropping the word closest when we are talking about seed. I have an order sitting in my Johnny's cart while I mull it over. Now I'll have to go look again. I was so good last year, but not so strong this year.

seedmama, I ordered as much as I could squeeze in without going to the next shipping rate. I was saving money right? I had that Johnny's order done before Christmas but failed to submit it until I got home this week.

I wrote to Willhite today and asked when their webpage would be updated and they answered that it should change next week. After I see what they offer this year, then I will decide if there is anything else I need, because I know I need a few things from them. Then I will plan a day trip to Baker Creek and buy the things I want. (wink) My husband says we are buying a new car this month, so I will need to try it out, don't you think?

Yes you need a roadtrip, and probably need a CPA along for the ride, to calculate mileage and such. Gosh I wish I lived closer. (I'm sure you know I meant closeout and autocorrect ruined it.) Good news, I had already looked at the Sale and Internet specials and that's what you were referring to as closeout. I need to go upstairs and hit the send button.

Yes you need a roadtrip, and probably need a CPA along for the ride, to calculate mileage and such. Gosh I wish I lived closer. (I'm sure you know I meant closeout and autocorrect ruined it.) Good news, I had already looked at the Sale and Internet specials and that's what you were referring to as closeout. I need to go upstairs and hit the send button.

Yes seedmama, I knew what you meant. I do wish you were closer and I'm sure we could get into some real trouble.

Al saw the inserts that go in my block makers today and asked me what those little black boxes were on my desk. I told him they were the inserts for my block makers. He then asked me if I remembered years ago when I first ordered mine and we thought what a good idea something like that would be. Why do we think of things then wait for someone else to invent them?

One more question seedmama. Understanding what a perfectionist you are, and seeing you did not spell a word correctly, then sent in a double post, I just have to ask, "Did you start celebrating your News Years Eve a little early?"

The 2012 Willhite catalog arrived in the mail this morning. That's the good news. I had to double-check the date on the cover because this year's catalog also features a little girl with a slice of watermelon on the cover very similar to last year's cover. However, when I checked their website, it had not updated yet. Otherwise I'd be ordering from them right now.

Other gardening catalogs that were in the mailbox this morning are: Select Seed (a duplicate, because another one arrived earlier), Farmer Seed and Nursery, Botanical Interests, Gardener's Supply, van Bourgondien and A. M. Leonard's Gardener's Edge.

The only road trip I am making today is to Tractor Supply and I bet the first sign of spring will be in their store today---seed flats and seed-starting soil. And if it is......

Dawn

Carol,

You are very funny. I wish there were some truth in your theory, but no. Ours was a kid-friendly, board game playing New Year's Eve.

I waited long enough at Johnny's that I lost the jute twine. Otherwise, I got the few things I ordered. I'm always stunned at how much twine costs, but I haven't figured out a cheaper way to do what I need it to do in the garden.

The Willhite website hasn't updated, but they have been removing things. I've been watching for 2012 pricing and things just disappear. At this point, they probably have missed out on my small order, as I found things elsewhere. Anything else from Willhite would be a want, not a need, and I'm going for two straight years in a row of only buying needs. Go me!

seedmama - What are the wants? I guess I just don't have the fever yet. I did buy a bakers rack at a garage sale the other day which will be additional space to put those seedling trays that I tote outside, oh so many times. I saw it beside the road but didn't have time to stop. We came by it again in about an hour and it was still there. I thought that it was probably overpriced or it would have been gone. I stopped and two little girls came running out and I asked the price. One told me $25. It was cold and windy and they went running back inside while I started making room in my SUV. The mother came out and told me it was $15. It didn't take me long to get that one loaded up. I don't like garage sales as a rule, but sometimes I just have to check them out.

I went ahead and ordered from Willhite on either Tues. or Wed. because everything I need from the catalog was already on the website, even though it hasn't updated yet. They shipped my order on the 5th and I received it today.

Dawn

Yes. I. Already have my seed order to Henry fields sent in. I like Henry fields because they seem interested in seeds that do well in the south. I am ready to get my garden. Going! MaMc2

Does anyone get Heirloom Roses catalog? I absouletly love it! I must admit, that I was rather dissapointed this year to see how small it is! Like other company's, they are down-sizing the printed catalog, in hopes of sending more people on-line. I like having the catalog in my hand for reference.
I am in the midst of building a web site on growing roses, and are currently adding "Specific Roses", or Roses by Name, that gives all the important information about it, along with a picture.
Sometimes a picture is hard to get, if it's not a rose I grow, or have access to.
Wondering if anyone would like to help out this growing rose guide, by sharing a photo or two.
At the moment, there are several specific roses that need photos. One in particular:

Here is a link that might be useful: Albertine Rose

I told myself I wasn't going to order any new perennials with the drought outlook looking the way it does this year, but $3 raspberry plants were just too hard to resist! At least if they die on me I have the comfort of knowing I didn't spend much on them. I hope I don't get anymore catalogs because I keep seeing things I want to buy. :p

Received the nicest looking catalog of this season today. It is from Osborne Seed Company. I have never purchased much from them but did buy some onion seeds earlier. I have never received a Baker Creek catalog although I even went and requested one. DV Burrell has sent their's out now also.

Need a suggestion on open pollinated sweet corn, white, yellow or Bi color. I am a seed nut who is picky on source and organics.

aliikoa7 - Check out Baker Creek Seeds. They are all open pollinated.

Here is a link that might be useful: Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds

How can I get on the list to receive those catalogs? I would love to get them.

You have to go to each company's website and request a catalog.

Wow! I would have been missing bunch of good stuff in this thread.I was thinking this tread may be talking only about Garden catalog each one of you receive, I was ignoring until now when I searched Willhite that brought me to this thread. I received many catalogs but never got chance to read them.

I never order anything from catalog so far, I usually browse online in their website and order. I just wonder is there any advantage to looks at hard copy catalog and order from them? I just love to hear how best you make use of mailed catalogs? I surprised to receive so many catalogs which very new to me.

I not much disappointed with last year's gardening experience. It tough me lot of good lessons. I know I am spending lot on gardening, because its my hobby. I also proud to do gardening because I am giving something back to nature, habitat of creatures and food for people around us. I feel my self gardening is one of the charitable work one can befit both sides (giving and taking). We till have plenty of supply in freezer expect tomatoes, I guess that will lost till we get fresh produce.

I need get rid of Bermuda grass between the beds, still thinking about best method. Paula that's is nice heater, I am glad it will work for GreenHouse as well. By the do you have any idea on electricity consumption? is that energy star?

Cheers -Chandra

Chandra,

I just like having a printed copy of the catalog in my hands, but when it is time to order, I go online and order. I think it is easier to find what I'm looking for in a paper catalog, and I can take a catalog outside or can flip through it before falling asleep or whatever, instead of carrying the laptop computer around.

Sometimes, I'll go through a website and look online to see what's new and I'll think I know what a company has added, but then the printed catalog arrives and I'll see varieties in it that I don't remember seeing on the website. I am sure they are there, but for whatever reason, they didn't stand out in my mind.

More and more companies are dropping the printed catalog altogether, which is a huge cost savings for them. I am sure that as the years go by, more of them will stop sending out printed copies. Renee's Garden Seeds doesn't have a print catalog, and Nichols Garden Nursery dropped theirs this year.

I also find it easier to compare what one company carries to what another one carries by flipping to the pages in the printed catalogs and comparing them side by side.

Dawn

I also like having the paper catalog in front of me to page through before going online to buy. I get a good idea of what I want, then I do some more researching and buy like a madman online. I ordered $140 some in seeds from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange this year. Hopefully I won't have to buy that much again, as I'll be practicing seed saving and maybe experiment with crossing some variations with each other.

I hope seed companies and maybe third party websites can continue to adapt their online services. It would be nice to search for a certain seed and see immediately who carries it and price compare.

I'm a college student, and me and my roommates are planning on making our house into a suburban homestead this summer. It's going to be a massive and diverse garden on a scale that none of us in the house have attempted before. But we can't wait.

Most of the seeds we purchased were well adapted to our climate, organic, and heirloom. We plan on experimenting with bio-intensive growing, aeroponics, aquaponics, and indoor gardening (we've got mint, basil, and thyme growing under cfl lights now, in bio-intensive soil, and we're germinating 'Tess's Land Race Tomato' plant now).

Here is a link that might be useful: The Anticlimactic (my blog)

Has anyone else noticed that the Burpee seeds you can buy that local retail stores aren't on their website? I'm quite confused.....

It is part of the seed companies' marketing strategy. They have done it for many years and I doubt it will change. Burpee certainly isn't the only one that does it either.

The seed companies know that a lot of people will be perfectly content to walk into a store and just choose whatever seems appealing to them from the varieties there on the rack in the store. Often, the store packets sell for significantly less than the catalog packets, although it varies depending on how available the seeds are from other sources, and often you'll have fewer (sometimes a lot fewer) seeds in the packets on the seed rack.

They also know that many gardeners search for specific varieties and don't want to grow anything but those varieties. Often they restrict those 'elite' varieties to the catalog, charge more for them and then charge a sometimes hefty shipping and handling charge on top of that. That is particularly true of their exclusive varieties, like Brandy Boy or Porterhouse for example, where they completely control the marketing of the variety and you cannot obtain it from anyone but them or a smaller seed company they own.

Earlier in the 2000s, they did put a few of their exclusive varieties on the seed racks as a sort of limited edition. Once those few packets sold out, their area was restocked with other varieties.

A guy who used to post on Gardenweb as 'GoneFishin'" was the first to buy those packets of exclusive varieties, open the packs and count the seeds, and then post a thread about it to tell us what he discovered. What he found was that he could buy Porterhouse tomato seeds on the seed rack in the store for a lower price per packet, but those packets only had 9 to 11 seeds per packet, and the more expensive catalog packets had 30 or 40 or 50...whatever Burpee was putting in tomato seed packets back then. It might have seemed like a good deal to buy the smaller, cheaper packet on the seed rack but you'd pay more money buying several packets from the rack than to order one packet from Burpee. But, if all you ordered was one packet, the shipping and handling makes it a really expensive packet. Also, for people with smaller gardens, the packets with a lower seed count might be just what they want, but for someone with a larger garden who wanted to grow that specific hybrid variety every year, it was a better deal to buy the catalog packet, knowing those seeds could be used for several years.

A couple of years later, I tried the same thing with Highlight Yellow Zinnia. I ordered a packet from the Burpee catalog and bought the packets off the seed rack in the store. I had to buy 4 or 5 seed rack packets to give me as much seed as the packet purchased from the catalog, and when I added up the cost, it was more expensive to buy that variety off the rack than from the catalog if I wanted, say, 50 seeds.

So, they don't do it to confuse you. They do it to market their seeds to different buyers in different ways.

For the specific company you mentioned, I only buy from their website the varieties for which they are the exclusive dealer. Otherwise, for on-exclusive seed varieties that can be purchased elsewhere, I look for the best price.

Thank you! That now makes more sense.... :)

You're welcome.

My Baker Creek catalog finally arrived. Not sure why such a delay. Better late than never. Although I have already placed my order with them and received it in Dec. Good deal. When I buy online I only look at certain vegetables and hardly ever look at the whole site. When I receive a catalog I tend to at least scan each page. I've saw a few things I would of ordered if I had seen them when I placed the order.

Dawn I tend to be like you somewhat on the company mentioned but again sometimes if I'm placing an order I will go ahead and buy a few more items being that I will be paying them a s/h fee. The fees of several companies and not the one mentioned in my opinion are ridiculous. You know one that I'm talking about. When they charge anywhere from $7.50-$15.00 or more to s/h 1-10 regular packets of seeds that is totally out of reason. Has now become a new pet peeve of mine. Jay

Has anyone had dealings with Gurneys? I got their catalog with a $25.00 gift coupon, so I placed an order and spent nothing. So how dissapointed can I be? Mostly heirloom 'maters, but I am going to try artichoke.

Mailbox full of all these catalogs!Good for the Post Office income I guess! Other than a couple like 'Park's' (we use their great planting sponges!), they are just fun to look at & I am noticing that a lot of the different catalogs/names all seem to come from the same address: esp. Randoloph, Wisconsin, etc. Are these just ONE nursery under a lot of different names? I know some of the old time great favorites are still under the same once reliable name but now under different companies & 'bad news'!

They are not all one seed company. All of them at one point were independent garden supply companies (some sell seeds, some sell other stuff in the case of the Randolph, WI companies) but over a period of time they've been bought by J. W. Jung Seed Company. As far as I know, these are the companies owned by J. W. Jung:

J. W. Jung
Edmund's Roses
Roots and Rhizomes
McClure and Zimmerman
Seymour's Selected Seeds
R.H. Shumway
Horticultural Products & Services (HPS)
Totally Tomatoes
Vermont Bean Seed Company

This is not terribly unusual as many seed, plant and garden supply companies are owned by related companies. Such consolidation has been occurring for at least a couple of decades now.

Burpee Seed Co. owns Heronswood Nursery and The Cook's Garden.

Territorial Seed Company owns Abundant Life Seed Company.

Baker Creek Heirloom seeds owns Abundant Acres, Comstock and Ferre Co., and The Heirloom Gardener magazine.

White Flower Farm owns Shepherd's Garden Seeds.

Gardens Alive owns 8 or 10 different companies, including Breck's Bulbs, Breck's (Canada), Gurney's, Henry Field's, Michigan Bulb Company and Thompson & Morgan--USA, and Thompson & Morgan--Canada.

Burgess Seed Company owns a handful of other companies, including Dutch Garden, Farmer Seed and Nursery, 4 Seasons Nursery and at least a half-dozen other lesser-known companies.

In recent years, the trend has been to buy other companies as a way of increasing your business and profitability. I doubt this trend will reverse itself, but I do try to give a lot of my business to smaller, independent or regionally-owned companies when I can because often they offer seeds that perform well in specific regions, and I'd hate to see them go out of business. Some of my favorite smaller companies are Willhite Seed in Poolville, TX, Southern Exposure Seed Exchange (they're pretty big now, but remain focused on regionally-adapted varieties), and Victory Seed.

Dawn

I am new here and may be doing this wrong. Please forgive that.. I am looking for red Sunburst tomato seeds and have no idea where to get them. I read some poeple gettinbg seeds from China.. I can not find any places online.. Any help would be appreciated. TY

Is it this one?

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunburst

can we grow bitter gourd from the seeds taken out of fresh bitter gourds

I assume you are referring to Momordica charantia, aka Bitter Melon or Balsam Pear? It is a less well-known (in the USA) member of the Cucurbitaceae family.

We do not know enough about the fresh bitter gourds you have, unless you harvested them yourself, to know if they were fully mature when harvested. When you harvest for seed-saving from members of the cucurbit family, it is best to let the fruit get overripe. For example, with cucumbers you leave them onto the vine until they turn yellowish-orange. I think the same thing would be true of bitter melon/bitter gourd if you wanted to save seed from it.

With cucurbits, in order to harvest the best and the most seeds to plant, it is best to leave the fruit on the vine for about 3 weeks after you'd harvest it to eat. That extra time on the vine allows the seeds to mature. So, if your bitter gourds had enough time on the vine, the seeds likely are viable (assuming they were pollinated by insects). The only way to know is to try some. Scoop them out of the bitter melon and let them dry. You should dry them to the point that you can snap one in half. If they bend but don't break, they aren't dry enough. Then you can plant them or store them. Bitter melon seeds germinate in a week or two in really warm conditions (soil temps between 75 and 85 degrees). If you want, you can ferment the seeds before drying them. Fermentation often will kill some disease pathogens and also often gives you a higher germination rate. Bitter melon seeds are very hard once dried, so to increase the odds of getting good germination, scarify the seed coat by nicking it with a knife, but don't cut too deeply into the seed. You just want to nick the coat, not cut the whole seed in half.

If you want to buy bitter melon seeds, they are available from several online retailers. I think the first time I bought any it either was from Seed Savers Exchange or from Willhite Seeds, but that was a long time ago. Evergreen Seeds would have several varieties of bitter gourd/bitter melons, and so will Kitazawa Seeds, which I've linked below.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitazawa Seed---Bitter Melon Selections

bhuvana,

Dawn has already provided good info about bitter gourd. Yes you can grow seeds from the fresh bitter gourds which is matured enough so that seeds are covered with red pulp. If you won't see red slimy coat on the seeds, then they are not matured. Secondly make sure they are not hybrid (hard to know). I tried both, store bought as well as seeds from seed companies, I have great success with seeds from well know source. Later I come to know sometime store bought fruits are from non-stabilized hybrids, results are varying with production and flavor. We grow lot of bitter melon here in our garden, I starts seeds indoor in late March. Bitter melon chips are our families favorite, even kids love them, my daughter snak them like potato chips.

-Chandra

Thanks Dawn and Chandra.I bought some bitter gourd seeds from seeds of india along with drumstick seeds.with drumstick nothing is working well.Any ideas how to grow them indoor (since the temperature still not good outdoors)I tried to soak the seeds for 24 hours and put in the peet pots, still no luck.

Please suggest me some ideas

Thanks

Bhuvana

Bhuvana,
I started butter gourds seeds 12 days ago, now some of them are in their first true leaves. They usually take longer to germinate even after 24 soaking. If they do not show up in next few days, dig up one or two and see whether seeds rotted or not? Bitter gourd seeds will stay viable for longer. One time I bought seeds from "seeds of india" but most did not germinate, they might have selling older seeds? Please ask them for age of the seeds. You can sown drumstick seeds soaked or dry, they will germinate in 10-15 days. What is your zone?

I started drumstick seeds indoor in early March, they stay indoor or in greenhouse until mid April. Then I transplant them to ground when temp reaches at least 80s stay there or above. Before fall frost,I will trim all large branches and dig up and repot them in large pot of winterizing in garage. Last year I left few large plants in ground and covered them with mulch and some burlap but no luck. But potted plants are live and started producing new shoots, I will put them in ground probably end of April.

-Chandra

Hi chandra,
Nice to see the reply. THE BITTER GOURDS ARE GERMINATED WELL, ALSO THE DRUMSTICK, I SOWED 3 SEEDS ONE IS GOOD the others are dead. I live in zone 5b, so i think i can only grow in a big container, any suggestions would really help me

thanks
Bhuvana