So the shutoff has nothing really to do with replacing the heater. You can have the shutoff replaced and leave the heater alone.

But to answer your question: Is there anything I can do to stop the leaking... the answer is yes, there is. You can tighten the packing nut right below the handle. It will stop the leaking.

Now here's a tip: That was a cheap and unreliable valve back in '67. It' has a rubber washer that I can guarantee you is completely crumbled by now. This is a good time to replace the valve.

You want to use a ball valve. They will not dry out and they will work when you do need to replace that heater.

Hi Jake,

Your ball valve suggestion is really good. But I need a plumber to install one, right? And the water will need to be shut off, right? How long do you think a job like this might take? This plumber I know insists he's very busy, and that the earliest he can swing by is next year (he just sent me a text).

And no, I'm not renting the heater. It may have been a rental back in the day but not now.

I could be this plumber can't make any money coming to replace a part, on a old hot water heater, but if you ask him about a new tankless, you might find he is more available. Just a suggestion. Now I realize you might not have the financial ability to replace, but you have a choice. Replace a really old system, that is bound to fail at the worst possible time, and destroy possibly a lot of basement features and items, or get ahead of this failure with a replacement.

@bostonoak

Yes, the water will have to be shut off and would require a plumber to replace it.

You could tighten that nut with just an adjustable wrench though and it will be fine until your plumber gets there. Or you could put a bucket under it and not worry about it. It doesn't look like it's leaking much. Should be fine for a while even if it's dripping a bit.

Again, to be clear, this shutoff and the water heater are two different things.
I don't have any factual information about that water heater other than you saying it's 40 years old. In my view you should replace it as well. That's freakishly old for a water heater.

Since getting a plumber is a problem and it's a cause for concern - as well as this is a condo -- I say the right thing to do is to have both the valve and the heater replaced together.

In this situation I would replace it with a standard gas tank water heater. I'm a big fan of tankless, but I'm pretty sure this isn't the right situation.

That small leak in the valve may go on for months without getting worse. However, I would just replace it all with a standard gas water heater, which runs about $800-900 depending on brand and energy efficiency. Since you will need a permit, and it looks like there are a couple things that might have to be brought up to code during replacement (add pan and expansion tank, new shutoff valves, etc.), it may end up costing you as much as $2000. However, for a water heater that old it will be money well spent for the peace of mind.

If you call a plumbing company and tell them you want a water heater replaced, you may get quicker service. They always like big, straightforward jobs more than little ones. It looks like you have plenty of space, so it should be quick work for an experienced plumber.

FYI - Tankless may not be a bad idea, but its a more complicated swap than a simple replacement, and more expensive to purchase.

Bruce

Hi folks,

I'm really grateful for your feedback!

It looks like I will really have to replace my water heater.

By the way, the drip from the heater's shutoff has become a bit bigger today which is getting me really nervous. I'd really like to tighten the nut behind the shutoff's round dial-like thing (I don't know what it's called). But I'm afraid of breaking the entire shutoff since it's so old and causing a water mess.

Below is another photo of the shutoff, in case anyone wants to assure me that nothing bad will happen if I tighten the nut. And below the shutoff photo is a photo of the water heaters that my neighbors have. I'd appreciate if someone could look at my neighbors' water heater brand (AC Smith) and tell me whether it's the one I should get.

Also, eyeball the set up for the water heaters that my neighbors have and let me know if you catch anything odd. This will be really useful for me since I've never had a water heater installed. Thanks!

Can I assume that the condo board does not get involved when working on the plumbing, except if you have to turn off the whole building's water supply?

I doubt that the condo board would give you permission to install a tankless due to all the changes that might be involved.

bostonoak,

After seeing a better photo of that valve, I'd advise against trying to tighten the packing nut. It looks to be in worse shape than I thought.

Try to get to move up on the plumber's priority list.

The heaters that your neighbors have is an AO Smith. That will be fine - I frankly don't think there's too much difference between the brands. I'm pretty happy with Rheem - but that may not be as common in your neck of the woods.

What I'd avoid is a Bradford White -- they charge a premium for the water heaters and don't really provide any value for that premium.

Note that there is a service number on your neighbors water heater. See if that company can fit you

Hi folks,

Your feedback has been invaluable.

Here's the latest:

I have tentatively scheduled to have my water heater and shutoff valve replaced tomorrow, if this other plumber who installed another neighbor's water heater gets back to me and says he's still available for tomorrow, as he told me this morning.

The other plumber who has done some work for yet another neighbor in my condo building has not yet gotten back to me after speaking with him yesterday. This is why I went ahead and contacted the other plumber.

Plus, this plumber that I hope will come tomorrow pleasantly surprised me when I began to explain my water heater. He cut me off and told me he knew it well and described its exact location in the basement because he installed the water heater for my neighbor who lives on the first floor. This means my neighbor and I share the same basement (I'm on the third floor). There are four different basements in my 12-unit condo building. Each basement has three units above it. So in the photo I posted of my neighbors' water heaters, the plumber installed the one on the left).

I'm being charged $1425.00 to install a new water heater and shutoff. How does that sound? Just curious since I've never had this kind of work done in the past.

Where are you located? It makes a difference on price.

At HD, a 50 gal 12 year gas Rheem can be had for $680 plus tax. Fancier ones can go for $1000. Add delivery and whatever he has to do to bring you up to code, plus the new valve, plus the week before Christmas and $1420 isn't too bad.

weedmeister: I'm in the Boston area.

Jake: I did not see your last post when I posted my previous message. Yes, the service number on my neighbor's water heater is how I discovered the plumber who seems to be the one likely to install the new water heater. Thanks!

By the way, the $1425.00 is for a 10-year AC Smith water heater. There's an option for a 6-year tank but the difference in price is so small that it makes every sense to go for the 10-year heater.

weedmeister: I did not know that there's an option for a 12 year gas Rheem.

Bostonoak: As has already been stated, AO Smith — not AC, btw ;) — is a perfectly good brand. We had two that were installed when this house was built in ‘93 and they provided close to 20 years of trouble-free service before being replaced with Jake The Wonderdog’s beloved Rheem tankless units. And just so you know, 20 years is a pretty good life span for a hot water heater these days. I mean, it ain’t no 50 years like yours, but commendable nonetheless. P.S. Don’t expect your new one to last until 2068!

I agree withweedmeister, that's probably a reasonable deal in the Boston area

Hi all,

My new water heater got installed today. Once again, I'm really grateful for the feedback I got here.

Due to certain things which the plumber said he did not anticipate having to do, his bill went up from $1425 to $1650. I'll explain the extras once I hear back from him (I asked him to clarify something).

By the way, I'm glad I did not attempt to fix the old shutoff for the heater. It was very fragile when the plumber played around with it before extracting it.

Anyway, below are some photos:

The extras that brought the bill higher by $225.00 were:

1) He installed an additional 1/2 inch valve so that I have 2 in total, one for hot water, the other for cold water. He said that I cannot have one shutoff because there's a T-pipe somewhere in my condo building that links hot and cold water. According to him, in some old buildings (mine was built in the 1920s) a T-pipe was used to create a circulation between hot and cold water. And finding this T-pipe can be very tricky as one would have to explore the entire piping system and it could end up being behind a wall. If he's correct, this relates to another plumbing issue in my condo building which I intend to introduce in a separate thread (individual shutoffs for the various condo units).

2) Installed a new flue pipe. I'm not sure he considered this as an extra thing but he did note it in his itemized bill.

3) Cemented chimney. When he pulled out the old flue pipe a piece of the cement or brick fell off. The piece was like 3 inches by 4 inches in size. Not very big but the gap that was created had to be sealed for ventilation purposes.

The whole job took him 3 hours. And he took my old heater away.

By the way, I still don't have hot water. Just called the plumber and he said he'll swing by today to see what he forgot to do.

I'm not going to pick apart an invoice. Labor and such varies by location and we can't say what's reasonable. The best answer is usually to get multiple bids, and you couldn't really do that.

The install looks neat and workmanship like.

I'm a little surprised that there weren't dialectic unions on top of the heater (copper is being joined to iron).

Normally I like to insulate the first 10' or so of a tank heater hot water line if there's no insulation. It reduces thermal siphoning.

Hi Jake,

Thanks for your response. I know nothing about plumbing which is why I posted my thread here.

I really appreciate your bringing up dialectic unions because I had never heard of them! After reading your post I immediately googled them and found this helpful video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5thvA9dsQmQ

When I get a chance, after the plumber swings by and gets the heater going (I still don't have hot water), I'll politely ask him about dialectic unions.

Thanks!

Those may be dielectric nipples on the top of the heater (probably are).

Hi Jake,

I have not asked the plumber about dielectric unions yet because I have a bigger problem: I still don't have hot water!

When I turn on the water, after a short while it turns hot then after a minute or two it goes back to lukewarm or cold.

When the plumber returned at the end of the day yesterday he seemed perplexed. He couldn't figure what was wrong. He kept saying, "There must be a cross somewhere." But when I pointed out that my old heater worked fine, he didn't know what to say. Finally, he decided to turn the temperature of the water higher on the heater. He told me to give it two hours and see what happens. He also said that he still had my old heater in his van, and that he would examine it to see whether there was anything it could tell him. Then he left.

After two hours I turned the water on in my kitchen sink on. After a minute or so, the water got much hotter than before. However, after two minutes it got cold again.

Very strange.

Ok, here's what could cause that... is there any chance he has the hot and cold reversed on the water heater?

If it was, it would run out of hot water very quickly because it's pulling hot water off the bottom of the heater.

You can check this yourself. leave the hot water on in a sink and go down and feel if the pipe attached to the top of the heater with the red plastic ring on it is hot or cold. I can see the ring in your photo, but I can't tell what the plumbing looks like. If it's cold, he's got them reversed.

Set your water heater temp to 120-130 for a tank type heater. You don't want it any hotter than that.

The other possibility is a broken dip tube that got damaged in shipping / installation. If the heater is definitely connected properly, but the hot water is very short in duration I would guess the heater has a broken dip tube.

Hi Jake,

Appreciate your response.

Last night I saw the plumber touching the pipe with the red ring after we ran the hot water in the kitchen sink. And he said it was hot. But nevertheless, I tried it again after I read your post. I turned the hot water on in the kitchen sink then went to the basement. Yes, the pipe with the red ring was hot. By the way, here's a photo of the plumbing on top of my heater:

He also said that the temperature should be 120-130 before he jacked it up.

I'm including some other photos:

So the last test is to run the water in the sink until it's no longer hot (few minutes), then check the temp of the hot water pipe on the water heater. If the pipe is still hot, but here's no hot water at the sink, it's a loop somewhere.

If the pipe is cool, then it's probably a broken dip tube.

Hi Jake,

I just did your test. I ran the water in the kitchen sink. The water turned really hot. Then after a couple of minutes it turned lukewarm. I then went to the basement and touched the hot water pipe. It was hot. In fact, I could not leave my hand on it for long or I'd burn myself.

That's just really odd. I would say your water heater is working fine.

The places this can go wrong are with a thermostatic tempering valve or with a re-circulation loop / pump. Are you aware of having anything like that?

Maybe item 1 on your invoice ?

Jake,

To answer your question, I'm not aware of anything having to do with a thermostatic valve or a re-circulation loop/pump. In any case, why didn't the old water heater have this problem?

Jim,

Item 1 on my invoice was:

"Install 2 new 1/2" valve ball valves."

I do not know how any of this would affect my condo's water.

Jim was referring to:

"He said that I cannot have one shutoff because there's a T-pipe somewhere in my condo building that links hot and cold water. According to him, in some old buildings (mine was built in the 1920s) a T-pipe was used to create a circulation between hot and cold water. And finding this T-pipe can be very tricky as one would have to explore the entire piping system and it could end up being behind a wall."

Bostonoak, I'm out of ideas.

No worries, you helped me enough, Jake. I truly appreciate it.

Unlike the past 3 days, today I did not get hot water for even a minute. The water is just cold.

Now I'm getting hot water but and it seems to be lasting a bit longer than in the past. Very strange.

The plumber has not had a chance to swing by. Says he's really busy but will try his best.

The latest:

The plumber has not been able to swing by. Today I texted him. Then I left a message in his voice mail.

He texted me back. He's on vacation in Maine and won't get back till Jan. 2nd..

He doesn't really know what the problem is. He said not to worry and that the problem will be resolved. He also stated that he will pull a permit. I don't know what this means since he had never spoken of pulling a permit before.

He also said that I should try to turn the little black knob which controls the water temperature on the water heater. The idea is to increase the water temperature a bit and see what happens then text him. He cautioned that I don't want anything more than 130°. I have not yet done anything with the knob.

He also said that he might want to get access to my neighbor's condo unit since my neighbor and I have connected plumbing. He said he thinks my neighbor may be causing the problem but did not explain.

In all honesty, I'm confused and beginning to get a bit anxious.

The only thing that's making me not to totally panic is that I googled the plumber's business and the BBB gives him an A+ rating.

Hi Folks,

Just want you all to know that nothing has changed in my situation.

However, we're going to be having a plumbing inspector from my town come over and check things. We're just waiting to have the appointment scheduled.

I've had two conversations with one of the plumbing inspectors, yesterday and today (they have a time when you can drop by to ask questions, pay for permits, etc). One of the things he suggested to me today was to touch the cold water pipe to the water heater and see how it feels..

When I got home I decided to check. I took my shower today at around 8:00am. After speaking to the inspector, I got home at around 10:15am. I went to the basement and touched the cold water pipe. It was very hot! I then touched the hot water pipe. It was cold.

Then an idea struck me. I decided to go over to the other side of the basement and do the same test with the two water heaters owned by neighbors. Both heaters felt cold when I touched their cold pipes. And in terms of the hot pipe, one was slightly warm, the other was neither warm nor cold.

Does this mean anything?

Hi Folks,

Thank you for your post.

However, at around 10:15am today I decided to do a test of the hot water pipe of my water heater and those of my 2 immediately adjacent neighbors:

Here are the results:

1) When I touch the Hot pipe of my water heater it is hot.

2) When I touch the Cold pipe of my water heater it is room temperature.

3) When I touch the Hot pipe of my second floor neighbor it is vaguely warm.

4) When I touch the Cold water pipe of my second floor neighbor water heater it is gently cold
.
5) When I touch the Hot water pipe of my first floor neighbor it is gently hot,

6) When I touch the Cold Water pipe of my water heater it is room temperature.

Today at 8:30am I touched the hot water pipe of my water heater. It was cold.

At 8:40am I took a shower.

At 1:00pm I went to the basement again and touched the hot water pipe. It was very hot.

I'm just trying to do some trouble-shooting with the hope that someone may notice something with the way my water heater is operating.

By the way, has anyone ever seen the device below. It's called a Backflow Preventer. It's on a pipe by one of the water boilers, and that pipe is connected to the pipe that goes to my hot water pipe on my water heater.

Backflow preventer prevents water from flowing backwards.